Zone1 Question about Genesis 9.

[BrickHouse88]

In Genesis 9 it says Noah got drunk in his vineyard and laid on his hammock naked..

It then says Noah’s son Ham saw Noah laying naked, and Ham told his brothers Shem and Japheth to place a blanket over their dad Noah..

Noah then awoken with a blanket on him, and for some reason placed a curse upon Ham’s son Canaan, making him a slave.

So my question is, why did Noah freak out when he got a blanket placed over him and place a curse on Canaan?

Anyone know what’s up with that?

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 9 - New International Version

God’s Covenant With Noah - Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[The Duke]

In Genesis 9 it says Noah got drunk in his vineyard and laid on his hammock naked..

It then says Noah’s son Ham saw Noah laying naked, and Ham told his brothers Shem and Japheth to place a blanket over their dad Noah..

Noah then awoken with a blanket on him, and for some reason placed a curse upon Ham’s son Canaan, making him a slave.

So my question is, why did Noah freak out when he got a blanket placed over him and place a curse on Canaan?

Anyone know what’s up with that?

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 9 - New International Version

God’s Covenant With Noah - Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all...

www.biblegateway.com

Noah's son Ham raped him when he was drunk.

The other 2 sons covered up their abused father.

That's why a curse was placed on Ham and his lineage.

 

[Mr Natural]

Maybe it was hot out.

Maybe he liked laying around naked.

 

[norwegen]

It's just a story to explain Canaan's plight at the hands of the Semites (Shem).

The Semites conquered the Canaanites.

And Japheth (Turks, Chinese, Europeans, whatever), like Shem, did not see his father naked, either.

 

[Meriweather]

Anyone know what’s up with that?

No. And there will be some who will be absolutely horrified by a possibility I only wonder about.

Noah was drunk. Who was drinking with him? Was it his grandson, Canaan? Or, because Noah was drunk when he went into his tent and unclothed himself, did he take his grandson with him? Was this a case of child abuse, and when it was over, did Canaan tell his father, Ham. Did Ham tell his brothers and did the brothers cover-up Noah's action?

As we know today, sexually molesting a child can have lasting effects. Was the 'curse' on Canaan that he could not get past what perhaps up until then was a trusted relationship with grandpa. In other words, his world fell apart and was never totally right again?

One theory I think may have better merit, is that some rabbis have noted that their appear to have been two authors (or an author and a later editor) who wonder if Ham and Canaan were the same person. In this case, Ham/Canaan was broadcasting his father's nakedness (and weaknesses) while the other two brothers were covering their father.

 

[foggedinn]

The homosexual rape of Noah by Ham. Canaan dropped a dime on his father Ham. Noah cursed Canaan. It was the tattletale who was cursed. No one like snitches except the cops.

As to why Noah cursed Canaan; The Word is eternal and one should honor their father and mother.

I personally believe that in the very instant that curse come out of Noah's mouth, God chose a son of Canaan to be His servant (i.e. His priest) and do not consider it to be mere coincidence that the next place the priesthood shows up clearly in scripture it is in the hands of a Canaanite king named Melchizedek.

 

[surada]

Noah's son Ham raped him when he was drunk.

The other 2 sons covered up their abused father.

That's why a curse was placed on Ham and his lineage.

It doesn't say Noah was raped.

 

[Meriweather]

It doesn't say Noah was raped.

Correct. Scripture is silent on this part, but many rabbis and early commentaries wonder why. Noah was inside his own tent, not naked out in the open. In that sense he was covered or out of sight. Could it have been so unusual, in a hot climate, for a man to go into his tent, remove his clothes to sleep more comfortably? It seems unlikely that in those days and times people were such prudes that they could not bear to even think of a sleeping man lying naked in his own tent--that they had to go in and cover him.

• The clues we have:
• Noah was drunk
• Noah was in a tent, naked.
• Noah was asleep.
• Ham saw something he confided to his brothers.
• His brothers covered their father.

Question: Where was Noah's wife? We're not told that, either, or why the sons didn't advise their mother of Noah's condition if it was so inappropriate for a man to sleep naked in his own tent.

 

[onefour1]

We are also uncertain as to what happened in Genesis 9:22 when “Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father” and why, in verse 25, Noah cursed Canaan as a result. Some believe that the garment involved was taken because it had special religious significance and may have been a representation of Noah’s priesthood. If Canaan, or Ham, took the garment, the cursing may be related to Abraham 1:26–27 where we read that the descendants of Ham were “cursed … as pertaining to the Priesthood” (v. 26).

The Prophet Joseph Smith added: “I referred to the curse of Ham for laughing at Noah, while in his wine, but doing no harm. Noah was a righteous man, and yet he drank wine and became intoxicated; the Lord did not forsake him in consequence thereof, for he retained all the power of his priesthood, and when he was accused by Canaan, he cursed him by the priesthood which he held, and the Lord had respect to his word, and the priesthood which he held, notwithstanding he was drunk, and the curse remains upon the posterity of Canaan until the present day” (History of the Church, 4:445–46).

From Genesis 9 A New Start

 

[foggedinn]

Gen. 9
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

I wonder why everyone speaks as if Ham were the one cursed when clearly it was Canaan.

 

[foggedinn]

No. And there will be some who will be absolutely horrified by a possibility I only wonder about.

Noah was drunk. Who was drinking with him? Was it his grandson, Canaan? Or, because Noah was drunk when he went into his tent and unclothed himself, did he take his grandson with him? Was this a case of child abuse, and when it was over, did Canaan tell his father, Ham. Did Ham tell his brothers and did the brothers cover-up Noah's action?

As we know today, sexually molesting a child can have lasting effects. Was the 'curse' on Canaan that he could not get past what perhaps up until then was a trusted relationship with grandpa. In other words, his world fell apart and was never totally right again?

One theory I think may have better merit, is that some rabbis have noted that their appear to have been two authors (or an author and a later editor) who wonder if Ham and Canaan were the same person. In this case, Ham/Canaan was broadcasting his father's nakedness (and weaknesses) while the other two brothers were covering their father.

Mariweather
Your usually better than this. You seem to have posted without reviewing the scriptural text. I applaud your concern for abused children.

 

[Meriweather]

Your usually better than this. You seem to have posted without reviewing the scriptural text. I applaud your concern for abused children.

Oh, I reviewed the text along with reviewing several commentaries. There seems to be a consensus that the scriptural account confirms little. People work with what was given. What are your thoughts?

 

[Cougarbear]

No. And there will be some who will be absolutely horrified by a possibility I only wonder about.

Noah was drunk. Who was drinking with him? Was it his grandson, Canaan? Or, because Noah was drunk when he went into his tent and unclothed himself, did he take his grandson with him? Was this a case of child abuse, and when it was over, did Canaan tell his father, Ham. Did Ham tell his brothers and did the brothers cover-up Noah's action?

As we know today, sexually molesting a child can have lasting effects. Was the 'curse' on Canaan that he could not get past what perhaps up until then was a trusted relationship with grandpa. In other words, his world fell apart and was never totally right again?

One theory I think may have better merit, is that some rabbis have noted that their appear to have been two authors (or an author and a later editor) who wonder if Ham and Canaan were the same person. In this case, Ham/Canaan was broadcasting his father's nakedness (and weaknesses) while the other two brothers were covering their father.

How old was Canaan? Because the word "Son" is used, you are assuming he was under the age of 18. And, you assume Noah, drunk and passed out, took it upon himself to rape his grandson? The story of Lot getting drunk after his wife was changed to a pillar of salt. Passed out, his daughters went in and molested him. The daughters were clearly the sinners and I think the same with Noah, the grandson was wicked.

I get tired of this "two or more author" nonsense. Happens with people and the 5 books of Moses as well as Isaiah and others. It's always theories. How about it's angels and the Lord visiting the prophets and teach them and telling them what to write. Perhaps even abridging at times. Does it really matter? No. But, to some, it casts doubt on the validity of the Bible. So, I reject the nonsense and simply say, if it looks like another's writings, then it would be only and angel or the Lord himself.

 

[foggedinn]

Oh, I reviewed the text along with reviewing several commentaries. There seems to be a consensus that the scriptural account confirms little. People work with what was given. What are your thoughts?

Mia Culpa
I was guilty of what I said you did. I went back and reviewed the text. I still don't see child molestation and believe that Canaan would have to be of an age of responsibility. Perhaps his father Ham was too important and his son Canaan was used as a scapegoat.

 

[Cougarbear]

Mia Culpa
I was guilty of what I said you did. I went back and reviewed the text. I still don't see child molestation and believe that Canaan would have to be of an age of responsibility. Perhaps his father Ham was too important and his son Canaan was used as a scapegoat.

Canaan molested his drunk grandfather. A Sodomite

 

[HaShev]

Could be a simple misinterpretation in translation of words:
The word translated in English as "naked" is spelled in Hebrew in the same manner as being unveiled(exposed) of deceptions, therefore they covered deceptions as in
covering up the naked truth, like in Genesis Adam(man) and Eve (Church) were "exposed of deception" and had to cover up.

 

[Meriweather]

Mia Culpa
I was guilty of what I said you did. I went back and reviewed the text. I still don't see child molestation and believe that Canaan would have to be of an age of responsibility. Perhaps his father Ham was too important and his son Canaan was used as a scapegoat.

Again. the commentaries I read had noted a lot was left out, and were trying to read between the lines. Ham saw his father's nakedness, and told his brothers. Noah cursed his grandson.

Second, Noah, was not app0earing naked outdoors, he was in his tent, asleep. Is it reasonable to believe men never went to sleep naked in those days?

If it was, we're talking about men. Why the going in backwards? Why not just walk in, throw a blanket o a robe over him? They had never seen a naked man before? In those days, people bathed in rivers.

These commentators simply noted it was an odd story in many ways, that there is something the author wasn't openly presenting, but was hinting.

Another commentary suggested that Ham was broadcasting his father's drunkenness and his brothers were covering it up. In fact, I heard a homily about this, with the question is it better to cover up addictions such as alcohol, gambling, and drugs--or is it better to bring it out in the open where it can be resolved?

As for myself...I find it fascinating that throughout the story, Noah says nothing. In those days words were considered to have power. Was this unrighteousness of the people--the gossip, the name calling, the cursing while Noah is presented as a man who never speaks...until the day he curses, thus starting the unrighteousness all over again.

All we have are questions and possibilities. The author may have left clues in the way he wrote, but if he did the meaning of those clues were lost over time.

I take it you never did any research on this story? I am not saying any of these commentators are right, only that they suggest some possibilities. What I find hilarious is that you don't think I've read/know the story of Noah.

Oh, another suggestion was the reason Noah got drunk in the first place was because he was suffering from survivors guilt.

Maybe you have some thoughts of your own?

 

[ding]

In Genesis 9 it says Noah got drunk in his vineyard and laid on his hammock naked..

It then says Noah’s son Ham saw Noah laying naked, and Ham told his brothers Shem and Japheth to place a blanket over their dad Noah..

Noah then awoken with a blanket on him, and for some reason placed a curse upon Ham’s son Canaan, making him a slave.

So my question is, why did Noah freak out when he got a blanket placed over him and place a curse on Canaan?

Anyone know what’s up with that?

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 9 - New International Version

God’s Covenant With Noah - Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all...

www.biblegateway.com

Jewish embellishment added to the original account to prefigure the later sexual practices of the Canaanites, which are alleged in numerous biblical passages. The point of the story is revealed in Noah’s curse of Ham’s son Canaan and his blessing of Shem and Japheth.

 

[foggedinn]

Again. the commentaries I read had noted a lot was left out, and were trying to read between the lines. Ham saw his father's nakedness, and told his brothers. Noah cursed his grandson.

Second, Noah, was not app0earing naked outdoors, he was in his tent, asleep. Is it reasonable to believe men never went to sleep naked in those days?

If it was, we're talking about men. Why the going in backwards? Why not just walk in, throw a blanket o a robe over him? They had never seen a naked man before? In those days, people bathed in rivers.

These commentators simply noted it was an odd story in many ways, that there is something the author wasn't openly presenting, but was hinting.

Another commentary suggested that Ham was broadcasting his father's drunkenness and his brothers were covering it up. In fact, I heard a homily about this, with the question is it better to cover up addictions such as alcohol, gambling, and drugs--or is it better to bring it out in the open where it can be resolved?

As for myself...I find it fascinating that throughout the story, Noah says nothing. In those days words were considered to have power. Was this unrighteousness of the people--the gossip, the name calling, the cursing while Noah is presented as a man who never speaks...until the day he curses, thus starting the unrighteousness all over again.

All we have are questions and possibilities. The author may have left clues in the way he wrote, but if he did the meaning of those clues were lost over time.

I take it you never did any research on this story? I am not saying any of these commentators are right, only that they suggest some possibilities. What I find hilarious is that you don't think I've read/know the story of Noah.

Oh, another suggestion was the reason Noah got drunk in the first place was because he was suffering from survivors guilt.

Maybe you have some thoughts of your own?

I was eight yrs. old the first time I read this story. The next time I saw my father naked in the bathroom I believed I had just sinned. We don't always know the reason God says this or that is a sin. I believe that Canaan was the first recorded scapegoat in scripture.

 

[surada]

Correct. Scripture is silent on this part, but many rabbis and early commentaries wonder why. Noah was inside his own tent, not naked out in the open. In that sense he was covered or out of sight. Could it have been so unusual, in a hot climate, for a man to go into his tent, remove his clothes to sleep more comfortably? It seems unlikely that in those days and times people were such prudes that they could not bear to even think of a sleeping man lying naked in his own tent--that they had to go in and cover him.

• The clues we have:
• Noah was drunk
• Noah was in a tent, naked.
• Noah was asleep.
• Ham saw something he confided to his brothers.
• His brothers covered their father.

Question: Where was Noah's wife? We're not told that, either, or why the sons didn't advise their mother of Noah's condition if it was so inappropriate for a man to sleep naked in his own tent.

There's no evidence for rape.

Cursing the grandson may be the excuse for killing the Canaanites.

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
– Genesis 9:20–27, King James Version