Quadraplegic Illegal Returned To Mexico Against His Will

[Trajan]

[/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.

But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.

His abrupt departure, which Ojeda says was undertaken without his consent, outraged a group of Mexicans living in Chicago who had rallied to his aid, tending to him in the hospital and encouraging him not to give up.

Florinda Marcial, one of his frequent caregivers, said she pleaded with authorities to stop as Ojeda was rolled away on a gurney, dressed in a hospital gown, crying. Authorities at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago also said they tried to intervene.

"They threw him out like he was a piece of garbage," said Horacio Esparza, a disability rights advocate who runs the Progress Center for Independent Living in Forest Park.

Now, the 20-year-old man is in a Mexican hospital that is so resource-poor that it is reusing filters for the breathing machine needed to keep him alive. After an investigation completed late last week, Advocate Health Care — the largest hospital network in Illinois — acknowledged it never obtained Ojeda's permission to transfer him to Mexico.

Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com

Please read the linked article if you have time; I think the tone of it is worth discussing.

My reaction is, this should not have happened. The man was almost certainly working without legally-required safety equipment and the subcontractor who hired him should not have found it so easy to evade its workers' compensation obligations.

But it did happen. If the injured man has any legal remedies here, by all means I hope he pursues them. However, he was not here legally, his condition was stable and he was moved in a medically safe fashion. I think returning him to Mexico was not only permissible, it was obligatory.

What say you? Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?

I would have made him crawl.......





had to...sorry...it was begging for sarcasm..

 

[José]

Originally posted by Madeline
So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?

Mexico meets "the most basic needs of its people", Madeline (by most basic needs I mean food). When FifthColumn's name was Bullfighter he posed an interesting question to the whole Board:

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A MEXICAN WHO WAS SKIN AND BONES?

He was absolutely right. There is poverty, slums, street children in Mexico but not African levels of poverty. But the gap between US and Mexican wages is so huge that even Mexico's relative prosperity is unable to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Nothing short of Mexico becoming a first world country would stop them from crossing the border and this is totally unrealistic. Mexico's government cannot wave its magic wand, shout "ABRACADABRA" and sign a decree raising the mexican minimum wage to anything even remotely similar to 1000 dollars (US minimum wage, more or less).

This highly irresponsible act would bankrupt the whole country in less than 24 hrs.

And then Madeline, you would REALLY miss the illegal immigration problem America has today.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Fine and Felony prosecution for the idiots who hired him. ~BH

 

[Cecilie1200]

[/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.

But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.

His abrupt departure, which Ojeda says was undertaken without his consent, outraged a group of Mexicans living in Chicago who had rallied to his aid, tending to him in the hospital and encouraging him not to give up.

Florinda Marcial, one of his frequent caregivers, said she pleaded with authorities to stop as Ojeda was rolled away on a gurney, dressed in a hospital gown, crying. Authorities at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago also said they tried to intervene.

"They threw him out like he was a piece of garbage," said Horacio Esparza, a disability rights advocate who runs the Progress Center for Independent Living in Forest Park.

Now, the 20-year-old man is in a Mexican hospital that is so resource-poor that it is reusing filters for the breathing machine needed to keep him alive. After an investigation completed late last week, Advocate Health Care — the largest hospital network in Illinois — acknowledged it never obtained Ojeda's permission to transfer him to Mexico.

Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com

Please read the linked article if you have time; I think the tone of it is worth discussing.

My reaction is, this should not have happened. The man was almost certainly working without legally-required safety equipment and the subcontractor who hired him should not have found it so easy to evade its workers' compensation obligations.

But it did happen. If the injured man has any legal remedies here, by all means I hope he pursues them. However, he was not here legally, his condition was stable and he was moved in a medically safe fashion. I think returning him to Mexico was not only permissible, it was obligatory.

What say you? Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?

I like how they kept going on about him being removed "without his consent", as though it's a shocking new trend or something. Last time I checked, criminals are USUALLY taken into custody against their consent. And while I'm very sorry for his sad medical situation, that doesn't change the fact that he's still a criminal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.

Make sure you apply the law to the person who hired him.

And while we're fining the crap out of him for breaking the law by employing illegal aliens, I have no problem whatsoever with making him pay through the nose to get the guy decent medical treatment. It isn't as though they don't have any good hospitals in Mexico.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The illegal should be shipped back, the idiot who hired him should be prosecuted and fined into oblivion.

I agree, though I would add the employer should be obligated to refund American taxpayers for the medical care we surely paid for and he should have to pay for his continued medical care in Mexico. He exploited the immigrant. Let him see what it's like for the immigrant to exploit him. An eye for an eye.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by Ghook93
The Legal Way is the BETTER WAY!

The "better way" for those who want to die in Mexico City at the age of 110 still waiting for their green card.

I'm looking for the point where that becomes our problem, and goddamned if I don't see it anywhere.

If your own country sucks so bad, try fixing it. Or live with it, I don't care. Just don't get the silly notion that it's MY country's responsibility to rescue you from your own shitty homeland.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by Angelhair
BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people -

It's high time the US did something to turn the shithole countries under its control (Iraq and Afghanistan) into decent places to live.

THEN AND ONLY THEN the country will have any MORAL AUTHORITY to demand economic development from its neighbors.

THOSE WHO CANNOT DELIVER ECONOMIC PROSPERITY TO THEIR OWN COLONIES SHOULD TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

We're not DEMANDING anything from your pisshole country other than to keep its freaking citizens from breaking our laws. To demand economic prosperity would require us to give a shit, and we don't. We're just observing, suggesting, and disdaining.

Those who cannot deliver economic prosperity in their own cesspool home should shut the fuck up about what we should do in countries that AREN'T ours. We don't need advice on foreign relations from a third-rate excuse for a nation that can't get its domestic shit together.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by Angelhair
But of course - when all else fails, blame the 'evil' USA!!!! Ridiculous.

WORK ON YOUR READING COMPREHENSION, PLEASE!!!!

I didn't blame America, I just said:

THOSE WHO DEMAND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE AND BRING IT TO THE COUNTRIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL (Afghanistan and Iraq in America's case).

You cannot go around preaching the exact same thing you are unable to deliver yourself.

Why not? YOU are preaching to us about delivering something to Iraq and Afghanistan that YOU can't even deliver to your own goddamned citizens. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, ass clown. WE have military combat going on in both Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment. What's the fucking excuse for Mexico's piss-poor performance?

 

[Madeline]

Originally posted by Madeline
So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?

Institutionalised political repression (Soviet Union) and institutionalised racism (South Africa) are the direct results of government decisions and their dismantlement is TOTALLY within the power of any government whereas economic development is not and the former sovie states and South Africa themselves are living proof of this. Decades after the end of communism and apartheid they are still developing countries.

If economic development was the simple result of government decisions and was totally within the power of government decisions America would have turned Cuba, PR, Guam, Iraq and Afghanistan into decent places to live.

So yes, America should take a good look in the mirror and refrain from demanding economic development from its neighbors SPECIALLY WHEN IT'S DONE IN THE CONTEXT OF ANGELHAIR'S POST AS A WAY TO BLAME MEXICO FOR WHAT AMOUNTS TO THE MASSIVE DERELICTION OF DUTY OF THE US IMMIGRATION SERVICE.

I dun agree with everything Angelhair says but this is just bullshit, Jose'. The US certainly has a tremendous impact on Mexico's internal affairs, I grant you. And we should acknowledge that and look for ways to be a force for positive change....but there is not now, nor will there ever be, any substitute for Mexicans who take responsibility for the conditions in Mexico and work to improve them. If India and China can get off their knees, then so can Mexico.

It's that simple. Their nation, their duty. NOT the US's or its taxpayers.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.

Make sure you apply the law to the person who hired him.

Maybe the person who hired him did not know he was illegal??

No excuse. It's his legal responsibility to know that his employees are legal residents.

 

[José]

Hell, Cecilie!!!!

You react reflexively to any feeble attempt to treat Mexico fairly!!

The other day I replied to an idiot that said Mexico should be fined for the fact that the democratically elected american government made the sovereign decision to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years and instead of giving me positive rep you almost nailed me to a saguaro.

Now I just said the famous "line" immigrants are supposed to wait in is a figment of Ghook's imagination and got the same treatment.

I did not say it was the right way to enter America, I did not say America has any obligation to create any line for them...

I just stated the fact that poor, unskilled mexican workers do not wait in line simply because there is no line to wait in.

Holy shit!! Lighten up a bit before you explode!!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?

No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a MORAL OBLIGATION to be able to create it in their own colonies.

First of all, fucktard, Cuba isn't "ruled like a US colony". The US government has basic diplomatic contact with them, and that's about all. We don't even trade with them, and our citizens aren't allowed to travel there (directly). So we're wholly not responsible for the condition of Cuba.

Second of all, shitstain, Puerto Rico isn't "ruled like a US colony", either. They're an official United States territory, which THEY THEMSELVES chose to be through legal elections, and which they continue to choose to be, wishing to enjoy the benefits of being part of the United States without the responsibilities that go with being a full-fledged state. ::shrug:: And they are no more a third-world country than any other part of the US is, and a damned sight less than some areas I've been to. Their citizens enjoy the same rights, benefits, amenities, and standard of living that the average US citizen does.

Third, flatliner, Iraq and Afghanistan, unlike Puerto Rico, American Samoa, etc. are not US territories, colonies, or anything else of that nature. They are nations in which we are conducting military actions. As noted before, one does not start trying to estabish an Ozzy and Harriet lifestyle in a place while still trying to militarily pacify it. Furthermore, they are both sovereign nations, with their own governments, and will continue to be so after we are done conducting military campaigns there. Therefore, it is their own governments' jobs to provide them with economic prosperity, not ours.

 

[Angelhair]

'THOSE WHO DEMAND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE AND BRING IT TO THE COUNTRIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL (Afghanistan and Iraq in America's case).'



I tell you what - let's just be ALL things to ALL people ALL over this world! Let's take them ALL in and do for them what their countries will not do! Let's all get on our knees and beg for more poverty to be imported into this nation of ours and let the bleeding heart liberals pick up the tab. Let's tell ALL of these nations to screw themselves and that we are coming in to their sovereign country and do it for them whether they like it or not. We will fix whatever is broken for you! WE will tell Iraq and Afghanistan that the party is over and WE will handle EVERYTHING for them - that the end of their sovereignty is OVER!!! Then let's tell Mexico that they are NO longer a sovereign nation and that from now on WE will be in control of their country! After all, WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!! WE ARE A PROSPEROUS AND POWERFUL COUNTRY! WE CAN DO BY GOLLY - YES WE CAN!!!!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Originally posted by Madeline
I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.

After the Spanish-American War, Spain and the United States signed the Treaty of Paris (1898), by which Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam to the United States for the sum of $20 million.[41] Under the same treaty, Spain relinquished all claim of sovereignty over Cuba.

Cuba gained formal independence from the U.S. on May 20, 1902, as the Republic of Cuba. Under Cuba's new constitution, the U.S. retained the right to intervene in Cuban affairs and to supervise its finances and foreign relations.

Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the third time:

Those who were/are unable to bring economic prosperity to their own colonies, protectorates and satellite states have no any moral authority to demand it from others.

1902? Really?

You should have read your own fucking link a little farther, moron.

In the 1961 New Year's Day parade, the administration exhibited Soviet tanks and other weapons.[66] Eventually, Cuba built up the second largest armed forces in Latin America, second only to Brazil. Cuba became a privileged client-state of the Soviet Union.

The US hasn't had anything to do with how Cuba is run for longer than the 50 years you mentioned when you first started babbling about how we owe more to nations we're currently conducting wars in than Mexico apparently does to its own people. Try to keep up, asshole.

 

[The Infidel]

Wonder if Chicago is a sanctuary city

 

[Dr Grump]

Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.

Make sure you apply the law to the person who hired him.

Maybe the person who hired him did not know he was illegal??

wouldn't he have to have had a ss number to get the job?

 

[Dr Grump]

The US hasn't had anything to do with how Cuba is run for longer than the 50

RATFLMAO...yeah, right....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hell, Cecilie!!!!

You react reflexively to any feeble attempt to treat Mexico fairly!!

Nope. The problem actually isn't Mexico. It's the fucktards like you that it happens to produce that I don't like. And frankly, the shit stream that spews from your keyboard every time you put your fingers to it doesn't DESERVE to be treated with any kind of respect or courtesy.

And this is all completely aside from the fact that, as an intelligent, educated adult, I do not waste my time with meaningless kindergarten concepts like "fair", the meaning of which is purely subjective according to the agenda of the person uttering it.

The other day I replied to an idiot that said Mexico should be fined for the fact that the democratically elected american government made the sovereign decision to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years and instead of giving me positive rep you almost nailed me to a saguaro.

Yes, well, you should be glad that the saguaro is a protected species in Arizona, then. I would never damage one by nailing your worthless hide to it.

However, I can assure you that there's nothing reflexive about my hostility to you and your bullshit. To the contrary, I read the posts to which I reply quite carefully, and think about them thoroughly before describing to you the exact way in which you sound like a buffoon THIS time.

And for the record, while I am certainly hostile to illegal immigrants (of all nationalities and ethnicities, thank you very much), I have no hostility toward Mexicans in general at all. I actually think quite highly of the Mexican communities which I live near. So don't get any stupid ideas about me disliking you because of racism; I dislike you on a purely personal level.

Now I just said the famous "line" immigrants are supposed to wait in is a figment of Ghook's imagination and got the same treatment.

I really can't say that it makes a difference to me whether the bullshit you spew is quoted from someone else or wholly original material.

I did not say it was the right way to enter America, I did not say America has any obligation to create any line for them....

Unfortunately for you, I have an extensive memory, so you're pretty much dragging every other ignorant thing you've ever said on the subject of Mexico, Mexicans, and illegal immigration behind you like the smell from a giant taco fart.

If you're looking for me to congratulate you on figuring out, after all this time, that America doesn't owe illegal immigrants anything but to be treated like the criminals they are, I wouldn't suggest holding your breath.

I just stated the fact that poor, unskilled mexican workers do not wait in line simply because there is no line to wait in.

Holy shit!! Lighten up a bit before you explode!!

Of course there's a line to wait in. People move here legally from Mexico all the time.

 

[Big Fitz]

You know Madeline, Penicillin takes care of a case of the clap that severe.

Thanks though.

I did go overboard...but my Big Fizzy friend, that was an outstanding post you wrote there.

Well Thank you Mads. true case and the abuse illegal immigrants are suffering because they are a 'shadow population' is just as intolerable as allowing them to continue to come into this country unlawfully.

Those who profit from this situation ARE criminals.