Public Schools Failings!!! No they aren't. Only the Ones in the Big Cities are!!!

GHook93

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Education is a big topic. We all see reports that our students are falling behind kids across the globe. We all hear the publics schools are lacking, but the taboo topic of where the failing schools are located can be discusses. Conservatives rail against public schools and liberal says we need more money towards it. Both are wrong. There is an underlining issue that people don't want to face. Public schools in the predominately white suburbs do fine (in fact they easily out rank their Private School counter-parts) but the inner city ones fail (and fall well well behind their private school counter parts).

Look at the top 50 highschools in IL. Other than the top 6 (which are PUBLICLY funded selective Chicago university - basically the top Charter schools in the State) the rest are PUBLIC schools with no private school inching in. None are located in the city and the ones in the top 50 have a white and asian dominated populous.

Best High Schools in Illinois - IL School Rankings


The liberal will see this and say it's funding and class size (or deflect and call me a racist). However, the chicago city schools have much of the same resources, if not more than suburb schools. Chicago schools have libraries, computer labs, like sized classroom (actually smaller class sizes in many cases due to negotiations with the Chicago Teachers Union), sports and music programs and after school services. The liberal lie is that these schools are under-funded when in nearly all cases they get as much funds as the suburb schools.

However, these schools made up of predominately black and hispanic students fail and fail miserably.

Again the liberal will still say it's funding or the white man holding them down. Racists will state it's the black or hispanic intelligence inferiority.

I KNOW it's not funding and I don't think it has to do with lower intelligence of the race. Rather I think it has to deal with the uncivilized community that makes up the black inner city culture. 75% of black families are to a single mother, which no father in sight. Yes not all these children are doomed to fail, but in the black community the vast majority are. Blacks are way to quick to violence. Not necessarily against whites, but to each other. Even the slightest look can get black youth of today shooting at each other. It's insanity. The black community as a whole needs to realize it's not the white man's fault, but rather their own fault. They can only solve it on their own, but their inability to solve it, is shinking the country as a whole.

Hispanics problem is different. They come here and many don't even attempt to learn the language, so they can't assist their children with their school work. Many of the children don't learn the language to much later in life. They are stuck in English as a second language, which has been an utter failure of a program.

Like it or not race is a HUGE part of the issue in the failings for our schools. I remember hearing when I was in my suburban highschool that a good chunk of the kids in IL highschools couldn't read, couldn't pick out the IL on the map and didn't know who we fought in WW II. However, I didn't know any kids in my highschool who couldn't read, couldn't pick IL out on the map or didn't know we fought the NAZIs and Japanese in WW II.

If you took the inner city schools of primarily black and hispanic kids out of our educational rankings, then we would rank at or close to the in the world rankings for education. France is seeing a similar world ranking decline for similiar reasons!
 

RandomVariable

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Education is a big topic. We all see reports that our students are falling behind kids across the globe. We all hear the publics schools are lacking, but the taboo topic of where the failing schools are located can be discusses. Conservatives rail against public schools and liberal says we need more money towards it. Both are wrong. There is an underlining issue that people don't want to face. Public schools in the predominately white suburbs do fine (in fact they easily out rank their Private School counter-parts) but the inner city ones fail (and fall well well behind their private school counter parts).

Look at the top 50 highschools in IL. Other than the top 6 (which are PUBLICLY funded selective Chicago university - basically the top Charter schools in the State) the rest are PUBLIC schools with no private school inching in. None are located in the city and the ones in the top 50 have a white and asian dominated populous.

Best High Schools in Illinois - IL School Rankings


The liberal will see this and say it's funding and class size (or deflect and call me a racist). However, the chicago city schools have much of the same resources, if not more than suburb schools. Chicago schools have libraries, computer labs, like sized classroom (actually smaller class sizes in many cases due to negotiations with the Chicago Teachers Union), sports and music programs and after school services. The liberal lie is that these schools are under-funded when in nearly all cases they get as much funds as the suburb schools.

However, these schools made up of predominately black and hispanic students fail and fail miserably.

Again the liberal will still say it's funding or the white man holding them down. Racists will state it's the black or hispanic intelligence inferiority.

I KNOW it's not funding and I don't think it has to do with lower intelligence of the race. Rather I think it has to deal with the uncivilized community that makes up the black inner city culture. 75% of black families are to a single mother, which no father in sight. Yes not all these children are doomed to fail, but in the black community the vast majority are. Blacks are way to quick to violence. Not necessarily against whites, but to each other. Even the slightest look can get black youth of today shooting at each other. It's insanity. The black community as a whole needs to realize it's not the white man's fault, but rather their own fault. They can only solve it on their own, but their inability to solve it, is shinking the country as a whole.

Hispanics problem is different. They come here and many don't even attempt to learn the language, so they can't assist their children with their school work. Many of the children don't learn the language to much later in life. They are stuck in English as a second language, which has been an utter failure of a program.

Like it or not race is a HUGE part of the issue in the failings for our schools. I remember hearing when I was in my suburban highschool that a good chunk of the kids in IL highschools couldn't read, couldn't pick out the IL on the map and didn't know who we fought in WW II. However, I didn't know any kids in my highschool who couldn't read, couldn't pick IL out on the map or didn't know we fought the NAZIs and Japanese in WW II.

If you took the inner city schools of primarily black and hispanic kids out of our educational rankings, then we would rank at or close to the in the world rankings for education. France is seeing a similar world ranking decline for similiar reasons!
I have a public education so you are going to have to break this down for me a little. You are saying on average this country's education system is doing just fien?
 
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GHook93

GHook93

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Education is a big topic. We all see reports that our students are falling behind kids across the globe. We all hear the publics schools are lacking, but the taboo topic of where the failing schools are located can be discusses. Conservatives rail against public schools and liberal says we need more money towards it. Both are wrong. There is an underlining issue that people don't want to face. Public schools in the predominately white suburbs do fine (in fact they easily out rank their Private School counter-parts) but the inner city ones fail (and fall well well behind their private school counter parts).

Look at the top 50 highschools in IL. Other than the top 6 (which are PUBLICLY funded selective Chicago university - basically the top Charter schools in the State) the rest are PUBLIC schools with no private school inching in. None are located in the city and the ones in the top 50 have a white and asian dominated populous.

Best High Schools in Illinois - IL School Rankings


The liberal will see this and say it's funding and class size (or deflect and call me a racist). However, the chicago city schools have much of the same resources, if not more than suburb schools. Chicago schools have libraries, computer labs, like sized classroom (actually smaller class sizes in many cases due to negotiations with the Chicago Teachers Union), sports and music programs and after school services. The liberal lie is that these schools are under-funded when in nearly all cases they get as much funds as the suburb schools.

However, these schools made up of predominately black and hispanic students fail and fail miserably.

Again the liberal will still say it's funding or the white man holding them down. Racists will state it's the black or hispanic intelligence inferiority.

I KNOW it's not funding and I don't think it has to do with lower intelligence of the race. Rather I think it has to deal with the uncivilized community that makes up the black inner city culture. 75% of black families are to a single mother, which no father in sight. Yes not all these children are doomed to fail, but in the black community the vast majority are. Blacks are way to quick to violence. Not necessarily against whites, but to each other. Even the slightest look can get black youth of today shooting at each other. It's insanity. The black community as a whole needs to realize it's not the white man's fault, but rather their own fault. They can only solve it on their own, but their inability to solve it, is shinking the country as a whole.

Hispanics problem is different. They come here and many don't even attempt to learn the language, so they can't assist their children with their school work. Many of the children don't learn the language to much later in life. They are stuck in English as a second language, which has been an utter failure of a program.

Like it or not race is a HUGE part of the issue in the failings for our schools. I remember hearing when I was in my suburban highschool that a good chunk of the kids in IL highschools couldn't read, couldn't pick out the IL on the map and didn't know who we fought in WW II. However, I didn't know any kids in my highschool who couldn't read, couldn't pick IL out on the map or didn't know we fought the NAZIs and Japanese in WW II.

If you took the inner city schools of primarily black and hispanic kids out of our educational rankings, then we would rank at or close to the in the world rankings for education. France is seeing a similar world ranking decline for similiar reasons!
I have a public education so you are going to have to break this down for me a little. You are saying on average this country's education system is doing just fien?
Absolutely not!!! However, for one to say the answer is privatize the school systems ignores some basic facts. (1) The majority of the highest ranking schools in, at least in IL, are Public Highschools, (2) When they talk about the public schools are are utterly hopeless, they are nearly always in black and hispanic communities where the whites and asians make up less than 10% of the student body.

My education reforms would be this:
(1) Make a shift of all teachers from public collective pensions to individual 401K and IRAs with employer matches (similar to the private sector).
(2) End tenure. I know the arguments for it, but the arguments against it are much more sound.
(3) Move schools to a more Charter school model system, with more school choice.
(4) Have year long trimesters!
 

Katzndogz

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Here's your answer.

Archived-Articles: Why Shakir Can't Read

In the school system, Shakir, whatever enthusiasm he might have started out his school career with, by the age of ten has none. He has spent the years since kindergarten fighting, cursing, and distracting away from his reading problems. Each teacher he has encountered has made an active effort to help him. Each has been beaten by the combination of forces outside of the school system and by the child himself. Tired of his behavior, of his resistance and refusal, even when he is held back, his teachers have passed him on to the next grade where he is ill-prepared to do that grade's work because he never mastered the content matter of the previous grades.

All across America, schools are confronted with Shakirs who either do not show up for school or who attend school but hang out in the hallways, bathrooms, and other hideaways. Even in well disciplined schools, there are Shakirs who go to class and put their heads on the desk. They refuse to work; the same way, their parents refuse to attend parent-teacher meetings. They sleep, they disrupt, curse, fight, and do no work. Many of those who do work, do it indifferently; they go through the motions expecting to achieve high marks for minimal effort. Moreover, even when these Shakirs have done no work at all, they expect to graduate.

What can the schools do, confronted with thousands of Shakirs all across America? Many schools are just passing the kids through, just biding time until the kids are no longer the responsibility of the school. Why Shakir can't read is the same reason many black kids in America can't read: the kid's own lack of interest in education, his unstable home life with a single parent who doesn't care, a community that regards education as being destructive of black authenticity, and school systems which are burnt out with the stress of dealing with such kids.
 

DGS49

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Even suburban school districts are nothing to write home about, with a few exceptions.

The most important question about any school (or district) is whether it is possible for a prepared, motivated student to get a (relatively) good education there. If there are discipline problems, incompetent teachers, facilities that inhibit education, or if the school discourages superior performance by placing all students in the same classrooms regardless of aptitude, then that school or district is failing. Money is not irrelevant, but neither is it determinative. Some of the worst school districts spend the most per pupil (e.g., Washington, D.C.).

The school districting system itself is part of the problem. You are not entitled to a free state education because you live in Gross Pointe; you are entitled to a free education because you live in Michigan. Good teachers gravitate to the school districts where teaching is reasonably pleasant and well-paid. Such districts can choose from among hundreds of applicants for their vacancies every year, while "bad" school districts have trouble filling positions; people with Phys Ed degrees are teaching Math and Science. The results are predictable and ubiquitous.

Public education should be run from the state level, and regional administrators should have the ability to incentivize teaching in problem schools, and to reward superior results. Thus, the best teachers can be placed where they are most needed. It doesn't take a great teacher to teach in a prosperous suburb where 75% of the households are intact and headed by two college grads (like where I live).

And it goes without saying that if Management is not able to remove incompetent teachers, the whole process is compromised and "excellence" is impossible. Since teachers' unions have fought tooth and nail to prevent meaningful performance evaluation and removal for incompetence for as long as they have existed, the unions themselves have to be removed.
 

IanC

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Moynihan had it pegged 50 years ago. Its not the teachers, funding or buildings, it is the students themselves that create the culture that causes failure or success.

That does not preclude the occasional strong-willied individual who can make a temporary difference but there are not enough of those to go around, and the effects cannot be scaled up to make an appreciable change.
 

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