Public pensions are eating taxpayers alive

[DGS49]

And it continues. My daughter-in-law has been teaching in the local public school for 5 years. She will be able to retire at 53 on a full pension, with benefits. They are 'talking about' updating the teachers' pension program, but she is grandfathered in and her pension will never be modified, as it is sponsored by the State, which can never declare B'ruptcy. MAYBE in a few years, the teachers they hire THEN will be stuck with something like a 401k, but current teachers are golden.

 

[DGS49]

The "dirty little secret" of government employment is that it's absurd to compare government employees to private sector employees in comparable positions because government employees are, in truth, taken from the bottom of the barrel. They always have been.

Government staffers are people with degrees in History and 2.5 QPA's (usually from mediocre state schools). Their engineers are also usually from state schools, and graduated with barely passing QPA's. Government engineers who have their PE credentials are very rare. They say it's because they are not required to "stamp" drawings, but the real reason is because they could never pass the tests. Same for government accountants and scientists. Bottom of the class, virtually all of them.

The ones working in DC are on a higher level, generally, but not dramatically so.

I used to be a contract negotiator for DoD, negotiating major change orders mainly. I was continually embarrassed by the incompetence of the engineers, accountants, and other specialists on my team. The guys on the other side of the table, while trying to be as polite as possible, constantly made them look stupid and uninformed. Because they were.

 

[SAYIT]

Adjusted for education, government workers are generally not paid better than in the private sector. That is absolutely true in the professions. I've worked for government, and we would have a very hard time attracting talent because the private sector paid way more. It's generally true, however, that unskilled labor gets paid better in government.

When was that? If you are talking about the last four years I don't believe you. The private sector has taking a beating while the public sector has increased pay and bennies. I don't know what you mean by adjusted for education, I wa scomparing job to job. Does it require more education for the public sector employee to do the same job?

I'll post the studies later. If you compare compensation for low skilled positions, ie a janitor, the janitor gets paid more in government. But if you look at skilled labor, ie a lawyer, accountant or an IT professional, the private sector pays more.

Government has taken more of a hit than the private sector the last few years. In 2013, government spending declined by 1% while the private sector rose by about 3%. That's total government, not just federal government.

Only 10% of all government workers are federal government workers. The rest are state or local. And something like 40% of those workers are employed in education.

When it comes to public spending for professional services, much of it is outsourced to private firms. The political cronies who are blessed with public cash in turn make large contributions to the ruling party. It's all very scammy.

 

[SAYIT]

The bottom line? Many cities must decide between covering the pension bomb or paving the streets. Guns or butter. When they can no longer maintain their infrastructure, people and jobs will leave causing the tax base to shrink and you have ... Detroit.

 

[Geaux4it]

Absolutely. There are quite a few of them.

You said that already.

He was asking for links.

You can't read either. I said I have seen numerous studies saying public sector employees have gained and have surpassed their counterparts in the private sector in compensation. I can't go back in time and document the ones I saw and didn't "say that already". Try to understand word meanings instead of trying to distort them to fit an agenda. Since you are too lazy to do any research of your own:

Total Compensation: U.S. Government Employees vs the Private Sector - Political Calculations - Townhall Finance Conservative Columnists and Financial Commentary - Page full

On average for workers at all education levels, benefits for federal employees cost about $20 per hour worked, whereas benefits for private-sector employees cost $14, CBO estimates. Thus, benefits for federal workers cost 48 percent more per hour worked, on average, than benefits for private sector workers with similar attributes. Benefits also constituted a larger share of compensation for federal workers, accounting for 39 percent of the cost of total compensation, compared with 30 percent in the private sector.

We find that while the average U.S. federal government employee makes $14,632 more in direct cash income than their private sector counterpart, at $74,436 versus $59,804, the extremely generous benefits with which they are also compensated boosts their real income margin by $26,632 over the average private sector income earner, putting their total compensation at $114,436 versus $87,804.

Keeping in mind that the average income of Americans in the private sector is considerably elevated by some very highly paid individuals such as CEOs, very specialized medical professionals, sports stars and entertainment moguls, the total compensation of U.S. federal government employees puts them all in a league of their own. And that's not even including their extreme job security.

You have hit the mark in identifying why government jobs are coveted, and not that easy to obtain.

-Geaux

 

[OnePercenter]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

 

[gipper]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

Yes. All this partisan bickering and finger pointing is stupid and a complete waste of time and energy.

Both parties are responsible for the problems America faces and both parties do all they can to divide Americans along party lines.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

Yes. All this partisan bickering and finger pointing is stupid and a complete waste of time and energy.

Both parties are responsible for the problems America faces and both parties do all they can to divide Americans along party lines.

Americans are responsible, I don't get this lack of responsibility thing. We vote for these people and give them power over us. Democrats have a divide and conquer mentality, where do you see it on the right?

 

[eflatminor]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

Remind us in whose district we find Wall Street?

Why look at that! It's Chucky Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand in the Senate and Jerrold Nader in the House. Now which party are they in? But hey, the Mayor of NY is a limited government conservative, right???

Your bias is overwhelming. It blinds you to reason. Open them eyes and you'll see both parties contributed to this mess.

And by the way, the pubic pension crisis was in fact a problem well before the economic downturn.

 

[gipper]

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

Yes. All this partisan bickering and finger pointing is stupid and a complete waste of time and energy.

Both parties are responsible for the problems America faces and both parties do all they can to divide Americans along party lines.

Americans are responsible, I don't get this lack of responsibility thing. We vote for these people and give them power over us. Democrats have a divide and conquer mentality, where do you see it on the right?

Yes...Americans are ultimately responsible, but unfortunately most Americans are not informed and have been told lies by the government schools and media. As such, they voted in the majority for a hard left fool like Obama.

I do not consider the R party to be on the right. Most of them are progressives, just not as far left as the Ds. Certainly W, McCain, and Romney are not on the right. They are moderate progressives.

I agree that the Ds are experts at divide and conquer.

 

[Moonglow]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

Yes. All this partisan bickering and finger pointing is stupid and a complete waste of time and energy.

Both parties are responsible for the problems America faces and both parties do all they can to divide Americans along party lines.

Hey, where you been hiding? I agree that it is sad that both parties are like a divorcing married couple...

 

[eflatminor]

I do not consider the R party to be on the right. Most of them are progressives, just not as far left as the Ds.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes...Americans are ultimately responsible, but unfortunately most Americans are not informed and have been told lies by the government schools and media. As such, they voted in the majority for a hard left fool like Obama.

I do not consider the R party to be on the right. Most of them are progressives, just not as far left as the Ds. Certainly W, McCain, and Romney are not on the right. They are moderate progressives.

I agree that the Ds are experts at divide and conquer.

Yes, too many Republicans are not fiscal conservatives. That needs to change and maybe the climate is ripe for it. The media is full of crap, it's obvious to anyone not in a coma but it's quick, easy and entertaining. The media is acting like the fourth branch of government and people let them get away with it for the most part.

 

[OnePercenter]

Wasn't a problem until the Republicans/corporate America/wallstreet crashed the economy.

That's a dopey statement. Many of them are Democrats, Republicans aren't all the same regardless of your 1 degree field of view and Americans in general played a role by not living fiscally conservative.

Which entity was having a problem prior to the Bush?

 

[OnePercenter]

Yes...Americans are ultimately responsible, but unfortunately most Americans are not informed and have been told lies by the government schools and media. As such, they voted in the majority for a hard left fool like Obama.

I do not consider the R party to be on the right. Most of them are progressives, just not as far left as the Ds. Certainly W, McCain, and Romney are not on the right. They are moderate progressives.

I agree that the Ds are experts at divide and conquer.

Yes, too many Republicans are not fiscal conservatives. That needs to change and maybe the climate is ripe for it. The media is full of crap, it's obvious to anyone not in a coma but it's quick, easy and entertaining. The media is acting like the fourth branch of government and people let them get away with it for the most part.

fiscal conservative = **** the Middle Class.

 

[Iceweasel]

Which entity was having a problem prior to the Bush?

Learn to read. "[those] not living fiscally conservative".

fiscal conservative = **** the Middle Class.

Which proves that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[gipper]

Yes...Americans are ultimately responsible, but unfortunately most Americans are not informed and have been told lies by the government schools and media. As such, they voted in the majority for a hard left fool like Obama.

I do not consider the R party to be on the right. Most of them are progressives, just not as far left as the Ds. Certainly W, McCain, and Romney are not on the right. They are moderate progressives.

I agree that the Ds are experts at divide and conquer.

Yes, too many Republicans are not fiscal conservatives. That needs to change and maybe the climate is ripe for it. The media is full of crap, it's obvious to anyone not in a coma but it's quick, easy and entertaining. The media is acting like the fourth branch of government and people let them get away with it for the most part.

fiscal conservative = **** the Middle Class.

Terribly foolish conclusion, but it is held by many Americans...sadly.

If ever expanding welfare programs and deficit spending expanded the middle class, than why is the middle class shrinking today?

 

[eflatminor]

Yes, too many Republicans are not fiscal conservatives. That needs to change and maybe the climate is ripe for it. The media is full of crap, it's obvious to anyone not in a coma but it's quick, easy and entertaining. The media is acting like the fourth branch of government and people let them get away with it for the most part.

fiscal conservative = **** the Middle Class.

Terribly foolish conclusion, but it is held by many Americans...sadly.

If ever expanding welfare programs and deficit spending expanded the middle class, than why is the middle class shrinking today?

Hey, stop that! Logic and reason have no place in a discussion like this. It's about what feels right. Don't you know that???

 

[whitehall]

The problem is in municipal union contracts where municipal unions are allowed to engage in binding arbitration. Local jurisdictions can't afford it but national unions like the AFL and federated teachers unions gang up on them. Municipal workers retire (young) and move out of the area but local jurisdictions are still stuck paying the pensions.