Public funded associates degree might actually be beneficial to society

[The Sage of Main Street]

If you extend the length of High School all you get is older burger flippers and more whiny drop outs. Reactivating the draft would be a better idea. You have to be motivated and focused to get even an Associate degree and the best way is to have served a couple of years in the Military or pay for a higher education.

Restore tech schools....best bang for the buck...

Other options, such as apprenticeships, often don't exist or offer pathetic compensation.

Those Who Hire Get Put on the Pyre

Cheapskate Scrooges who offer that should be piled onto a sacrificial offering.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school? Teach a man to fish and he'll starve to death before he learns how. Only someone brainwashed to believe in unpaid job training would fail to realize that what is paid to students will pay us back many times over.

 

[Care4all]

Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.

A couple of things
Property taxes going up to pay for this, is a heavy burden on property owners paying the taxes for it. Spread to everyone contributing.... would be pennies on the dollar compared to putting it on to only property owners shoulders, and many of them seniors.

Most high schools do not have the room to have two extra grades of classes at their high school.....schools are already restrained from the numbers of students going there...my high school had to turn to split sessions, freshman and sophmore had to go to school starting at 1pm and juniors and seniors had to go to school starting at 7am...it was double the cost for bussing the students, well two shifts of it...

it was a real nightmare having to start school at 7am!

the benefit was we got out of school at noon, and were able to work better and more hours in our part time jobs after school!

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You had me up to the "liberal arts" part.

Make it a BS type program instead and maybe, but LAS degrees from 4 year schools are worthless already, imo.

Maybe create one that deals with some math, finance, science etc instead of having to pick just one, which then preps them to continue in those types of fields. Now we're encouraging movement in that direction and I'm all ears.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I actually spit my tea onto my key board when I read the "critical thinking" line. The liberal arts students I know are entirely devoid of critical thinking skills. They can recite left wing dogma quite well but cannot and will not engage in a logical debate.

The Nose-Pin Zone

Both sides use "critical thinking" to mean "listen to my spin about what that really means because I call my self-serving opinion 'logic'."

So that phrase is gibberish. Before this one, too, is shredded to babble, consider the phrase "abstract thinking." That literally mean subtraction, getting rid of all irrelevant similarities. For example, superior minds should imitate superior athletes and unionize to get 50% of corporate patents. The fact that dumb jocks beat up smartkids is irrelevant to that organizing for power.

 

[baileyn45]

You had me up to the "liberal arts" part.

Make it a BS type program instead and maybe, but LAS degrees from 4 year schools are worthless already, imo.

Maybe create one that deals with some math, finance, science etc instead of having to pick just one, which then preps them to continue in those types of fields. Now we're encouraging movement in that direction and I'm all ears.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I actually spit my tea onto my key board when I read the "critical thinking" line. The liberal arts students I know are entirely devoid of critical thinking skills. They can recite left wing dogma quite well but cannot and will not engage in a logical debate.

The Nose-Pin Zone

Both sides use "critical thinking" to mean "listen to my spin about what that really means because I call my self-serving opinion 'logic'."

So that phrase is gibberish. Before this one, too, is shredded to babble, consider the phrase "abstract thinking." That literally mean subtraction, getting rid of all irrelevant similarities. For example, superior minds should imitate superior athletes and unionize to get 50% of corporate patents. The fact that dumb jocks beat up smartkids is irrelevant to that organizing for power.

Well I can't speak for any "sides", but for me critical thinking skills are simply the ability to rationally interrogate ideas and come to a logical conclusion. Something I find almost entirely absent in the liberal arts majors I interact with. First they will recite standard left wing rhetoric, second they will recite standard left wing rhetoric, third they will recite standard left wing rhetoric and finally they will tell me I'm racist and walk away.

 

[francoHFW]

Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.

A couple of things
Property taxes going up to pay for this, is a heavy burden on property owners paying the taxes for it. Spread to everyone contributing.... would be pennies on the dollar compared to putting it on to only property owners shoulders, and many of them seniors.

Most high schools do not have the room to have two extra grades of classes at their high school.....schools are already restrained from the numbers of students going there...my high school had to turn to split sessions, freshman and sophmore had to go to school starting at 1pm and juniors and seniors had to go to school starting at 7am...it was double the cost for bussing the students, well two shifts of it...

it was a real nightmare having to start school at 7am!

the benefit was we got out of school at noon, and were able to work better and more hours in our part time jobs after school!

The answer is still and always tax the rich and giant corps their fair share and give the UE and underemployed etc cheap training, college, and college loans to prepare them for the 3-6 million tech jobs going begging and other good jobs produced by new markets that are the result of trade deals. Of course, this has to wait another 4 years at least.

 

[candycorn]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

 

[WillReadmore]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Problems from home: Those already in the work force as adults usually have responsibilities - kids, parents, child support, etc., and those living pay check to pay check or out of work are struggling before they decide to spend time on something that doesn't pay off in the near term.

Problems with small class load (like, one class per semester):

If you take one class at a time:

120 credits required for graduation, 4 credits per semester, 2 semesters per year. You do the math. In some cases, summer semester can reduce the time to, say, a decade. However, someone who has been out of school probably needs summer semesters just to fill deficits.

Plus, classes in your major almost never count toward graduation if they are more than 5 years old. They don't really care what you did 5 years ago - let alone a decade ago.

So, you just don't have 10 years to graduate. STEM departments won't accept you, or they will boot you regardless of your grades, if you get in, but progress anywhere NEAR that slowly.

Most universities have course work in STEM majors laid out in lock step. If you get out of sequence, you just lost a year. And, progressing usually requires courses in other subjects - math, for example. So, keeping up with the sequence by taking one university course at a time usually isn't possible - even if some school would let you try.


We have added money to education to bring along those who have deficits - night school, remedial math (like, for those not getting calculus in high school, not getting the foundations of biology in high school, etc.). But, those courses may not count toward graduation.

We could do more of that, but it won't be free, because it takes space, equipment, educators, management, etc. And, we should figure out what we're actually doing, because in science a 4 year degree earned over 10 years is ... what?

 

[candycorn]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Problems from home: Those already in the work force as adults usually have responsibilities - kids, parents, child support, etc., and those living pay check to pay check or out of work are struggling before they decide to spend time on something that doesn’t pay off in the near term.

And there are millions coping with those problems today.

Problems with small class load (like, one class per semester):
If you take one class at a time:
120 credits required for graduation, 4 credits per semester, 2 semesters per year. You do the math. In some cases, summer semester can reduce the time to, say, a decade. However, someone who has been out of school probably needs summer semesters just to fill deficits.

Many people in the workforce did not finish their degree due to the costs of college. This allows them to go back

Plus, classes in your major almost never count toward graduation if they are more than 5 years old. They don't really care what you did 5 years ago - let alone a decade ago.

So, you just don't have 10 years to graduate. STEM departments won't accept you, or they will boot you regardless of your grades, if you get in, but progress anywhere NEAR that slowly.

Most universities have course work in STEM majors laid out in lock step. If you get out of sequence, you just lost a year. And, progressing usually requires courses in other subjects - math, for example. So, keeping up with the sequence by taking one university course at a time usually isn't possible - even if some school would let you try.


We have added money to education to bring along those who have deficits - night school, remedial math (like, for those not getting calculus in high school, not getting the foundations of biology in high school, etc.). But, those courses may not count toward graduation.

We could do more of that, but it won't be free, because it takes space, equipment, educators, management, etc. And, we should figure out what we're actually doing, because in science a 4 year degree earned over 10 years is ... what?[/QUOTE]

Ok.

What I didn’t include is that the 60 hours are yours to spend as you want. If you want to get a cosmetology certificate, you can. If you want to take welding courses, great. If you want to spend your 60 hours playing dodge ball…you can. You’re just on the hook for payback regardless of where you’re working. Not everyone is going to go into nuclear technology but some will. If it helps a guy who changes oil at Jiffy Lube move over to AAMCO and make more doing transmission work… that will be fine with me.

 

[WillReadmore]

Ok.

What I didn’t include is that the 60 hours are yours to spend as you want. If you want to get a cosmetology certificate, you can. If you want to take welding courses, great. If you want to spend your 60 hours playing dodge ball…you can. You’re just on the hook for payback regardless of where you’re working. Not everyone is going to go into nuclear technology but some will. If it helps a guy who changes oil at Jiffy Lube move over to AAMCO and make more doing transmission work… that will be fine with me.

I agree with Clinton that voc-tech programs need to be improved. We don't do nearly enough on that front. Not only is it needed for kids coming out of college, but for those in industry who need to keep up with a changing job market.

What happened to auto workers is that they got left behind. Of course, the fact that unions got smashed was a disaster for them, too, as they lost out in bargaining for job security, wages, safety, retirement, training, etc.

I'm just pointing out that the idea that someone can get a 4 year degree by going to school on a 1 or 2 classes at a time plan is ridiculous. One would have to search out a worthless degree somewhere to accomplish that.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Take the Upper Class Down

Of course he will have to, because his former workday will be taken up by class attendance and homework. Who are you trying to kid? You know perfectly well that college is work without pay, for little Mamas' Boys who are afraid to grow up and have no problem living on a teenager's income. I'm getting sick of Netwits pretending to be ignorant of the way things are just because they don't have the guts to admit they live under a screwjob regime.

 

[WillReadmore]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Take the Upper Class Down

Of course he will have to, because his former workday will be taken up by class attendance and homework. Who are you trying to kid? You know perfectly well that college is work without pay, for little Mamas' Boys who are afraid to grow up and have no problem living on a teenager's income. I'm getting sick of Netwits pretending to be ignorant of the way things are just because they don't have the guts to admit they live under a screwjob regime.

There can be training that keeps workers employed while allowing them to stay current in their employment sector.

Today, we have rust belt workers who can't get hired even though manufacturing corporations are hiring those who understand modern manufacturing.

That didn't have to happen.

The catch is that it is cheap and easy for corporations to ignore training existing employees while hiring kids coming out of two year and 4 year programs that teach this stuff and who have a proven track record of being able to learn.

Once unions were smashed, manufacturing workers pretty much just lost their voice.

Do you think Trump's Sec of Labor cares about workers?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Take the Upper Class Down

Of course he will have to, because his former workday will be taken up by class attendance and homework. Who are you trying to kid? You know perfectly well that college is work without pay, for little Mamas' Boys who are afraid to grow up and have no problem living on a teenager's income. I'm getting sick of Netwits pretending to be ignorant of the way things are just because they don't have the guts to admit they live under a screwjob regime.

There can be training that keeps workers employed while allowing them to stay current in their employment sector.

Today, we have rust belt workers who can't get hired even though manufacturing corporations are hiring those who understand modern manufacturing.

That didn't have to happen.

The catch is that it is cheap and easy for corporations to ignore training existing employees while hiring kids coming out of two year and 4 year programs that teach this stuff and who have a proven track record of being able to learn.

Once unions were smashed, manufacturing workers pretty much just lost their voice.

Do you think Trump's Sec of Labor cares about workers?

Aligning With the Preppy-Snob Democrats Was the Unions' Fatal Flaw

By opening up what has been hoarded on government land, Trump can double the wealth available. It's up to the workers to get a bigger share of it this time. The power of numbers can overcome the power of concentrated wealth.

 

[WillReadmore]

A better idea is to make it like Social Security. You go for 60 hours on the taxpayer dime. Then, over the lifetime of your earnings; whatever you spent, you pay back with it taken out of your paycheck.

For example, if you're a 40+ y/o file clerk who wants to make more money, go to school for a few years and get a certificate in truck driving, X-Ray technology, welding, whatever.... You do this using government vouchers and lets say you spend $180 per semester hour. $180X60 is $10,800. Add in another $4,200 in books, fees, etc to make it an even $15,000. Once you're out of school for 6 months, Uncle Sam starts deducting money from your paychecks. Presumably you're making more so you're able to afford the deductions. At the age of 45, you have 15 years of employment or so left. Maybe more, maybe less. So your payments may be a bit higher than someone who is 18 y/o who takes advantage of the plan. Each month, your deduction is $90.00. At the end of a year, you've paid back $1,080. That amount is deducted monthly for the next 15 years and you've paid back $16,000+ on your $15,000 loan As you elevate in your career and get raises and what not, you miss the $90 less and less.

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Take the Upper Class Down

Of course he will have to, because his former workday will be taken up by class attendance and homework. Who are you trying to kid? You know perfectly well that college is work without pay, for little Mamas' Boys who are afraid to grow up and have no problem living on a teenager's income. I'm getting sick of Netwits pretending to be ignorant of the way things are just because they don't have the guts to admit they live under a screwjob regime.

There can be training that keeps workers employed while allowing them to stay current in their employment sector.

Today, we have rust belt workers who can't get hired even though manufacturing corporations are hiring those who understand modern manufacturing.

That didn't have to happen.

The catch is that it is cheap and easy for corporations to ignore training existing employees while hiring kids coming out of two year and 4 year programs that teach this stuff and who have a proven track record of being able to learn.

Once unions were smashed, manufacturing workers pretty much just lost their voice.

Do you think Trump's Sec of Labor cares about workers?

Aligning With the Preppy-Snob Democrats Was the Unions' Fatal Flaw

By opening up what has been hoarded on government land, Trump can double the wealth available. It's up to the workers to get a bigger share of it this time. The power of numbers can overcome the power of concentrated wealth.

Seriously? You think rust belt manufacturing workers are going to go live in the Oregon desert and raise cattle?

Beyond that, if you want land there, you can buy it. There are large numbers of square miles open for sale, some with working ranches.

So, let me ask you this:

Do you think that land will be given away for free?

And, if the government land in Oregon goes to private ownership, what do you think that will mean for the real estate value of property owned by neighbors? After all, those neighbors really have only one significant asset - their land.

 

[yiostheoy]

Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.

The Fed's and the States both need to cut their spending rather than find more frivolous programs to spend more taxpayer dollars on.

The American people need a big tax cut of about $1000 each.

Not more wasted tax money.

 

[yiostheoy]

It would actually make more sense to cut off public education at the 9th Grade level.

Then make the rest of high school private and scholarship driven.

Anyone with a B average or above gets vouchers.

Anyone below that goes into the Army, Navy, USMC, USCG, or USAF, or finds work on their own.

This way the Negro children can no longer pollute their own schools. They would be forced to find work and get tha' Hell out of the school they are polluting.

A 9th Grade educated Negro is plenty smart enough to clean commodes.

 

[hadit]

Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so

that is now being done here in NC

Ah, the forward thinking South.

 

[WillReadmore]

Ever since that nut case Sanders came up with the idea, I have been playing with the thought in my mind. Naturally being a good conservative I was forced to immediately speak out against the idea. mostly because it came from a liberal and because it means more of my tax dollar being spent on "welfare" that had no benefit to me.
However after thinking about it now for some time I see where it actually could be somewhat of a good thing if done properly. And, if done properly I dont think it would cost anywhere near as much as people think.
My idea would be to essentially extend high school by two years. Yes the little tykes get to have their prom and get their high school diploma after meeting the requirements upon graduating the 12th grade, but, they still 2 more years of public education. It could even be optional for them.
One of the problems that I see is that there are too many fields of study to offer two years for free, so Im thinking, what if that two year degree was a liberal arts degree? It is true that one would have a difficult time finding a great paying job with a degree of any level if that degree was liberal arts, but there really is a value in that degree.
It teaches critical thinking, students come away with that degree with a greater ability to look for alternatives to a problem, they have the ability to look at given information and analyze that information with a greater understanding, and as I said the thought process to not only see it in different ways but also to utilize the information in more ways than one. This is a valuable asset to have in any field of study or job that they are trained for.
The reason I would suggest that they all be given this 2 year degree, is based on not only the logistical nightmare and expense of letting them choose whatever field they are interested in, but also the problems that would arise with the spaces in the colleges suddenly being flooded with thousands more students all at once. The answer to that is fairly simple.
Since they will all be studying for the same degree, we basically continue high school for an additional 2 years. liberal arts has no labs to worry about setting up, taking up space and costing the taxpayer out the back side so the high school classrooms should be sufficient.
The last issue is transportation, if the 2 year degree is done with classes at the local college and it is mandatory (unless a waiver has been issued) we have an obligation to provide transportation for the students. Now if the 2 additional years of school is done at the high school, the bus services that are being used for the students for high school will work for the ones that have reached the 13th and 14th year of school. so lets take your average high school community, the only real expense to do this would be the salary for the professors and that would not be noticed by the average taxpayer. As a matter of fact, since high schools are funded through property taxes, In most areas, the cost of the college degree would not be done at a federal level.
and finally, something that may
So other than the critical thinking benefit, how is this going to be of value.
for very little investment we end up with almost all students in the country having an associates degree and our national graduate rates will be huge. But the even greater value to society is that all of these students are now better equipped to pick a field of study and do well in it.
We as a society are going to end up with a much better educated registry of professionals.
so, in short, I now agree with Bernie that free college would be a great benefit to our society.

The Fed's and the States both need to cut their spending rather than find more frivolous programs to spend more taxpayer dollars on.

The American people need a big tax cut of about $1000 each.

Not more wasted tax money.

Education beyond HS is getting more and more important. Whether it is vocationally or academically oriented, employers are looking for more, and they will continue looking for more throughout the careers of kids coming out of HS today.

Ignoring that is how we created the problems of the rust belt, with people able and willing to work, but having their job sectors pass them by.

 

[hadit]

If they taught "critical thinking" in High school instead of putting a condom on a banana we might get a generation of kids who can identify the first President of the United States.

Republicans like to keep 'em stupid:

Report: Federal Education Funding Cut by 5 Times More Than All ...
www.usnews.com/.../report-federal-education-funding-cut-by-5-times-more-than-all-s...
Jun 24, 2015 - Congress has cut spending for K-12 education by nearly 20 percent ... Students and parents protest funding and staff cuts outside the office of ...
Why the GOP's Education Funding Bill Gets an F | Knowledge Bank ...
www.usnews.com/opinion/...bank/.../why-the-gops-education-funding-bill-gets-an-f
Jun 25, 2015 - I have a pop quiz for you: What is the best investment thefederal government ... In fact, House Republicans' cuts to educationprograms are so ...
House GOP Budget Gets 62 Percent of Budget Cuts From Low- and ...
www.cbpp.org/.../federal.../house-gop-budget-gets-62-percent-of-budget-cuts-from-l...
Mar 28, 2016 - The House Republican budget plan would prove especially harmful to low- and ... On top of that, the plan would impose a cap onfederal Medicaid ... of the $500 billion of entitlement cuts in the educationand income security ...
FACT SHEET: Republican Budget Cuts Education | House Budget ...
https://democrats-budget.house.gov/fact.../fact-sheet-republican-budget-cuts-educatio...
May 14, 2015 - Education in the Republican budget conference.pdf » TheRepublican ... year 2016 budget resolution makes many cuts in support foreducation. ... Federal student aid by state – The table on the next page shows the number ...
Republicans pass 2016 budget that cuts $5 trillion in social, education ...
www.rawstory.com/.../republicans-pass-2016-budget-that-cuts-5-trillion-in-social-edu...
May 6, 2015 - The Republican-led US Congress passed a 2016 budget, a largely symbolic policy document which if fully enacted would balancefederal ...
House Republicans want to cut back grants for poor college students ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../house-republicans-want-to-cut-back-grants-for-p...
Mar 18, 2015 - House Republicans want to freeze the maximum Pell Grant award for ... of a federal program allowing many of the country's poorest students attend college. ... 51 percent of Latino undergrads, according to the Education Trust.
House GOP Aims to Cut Education Funding, Including Obama ... - Blogs
blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/.../house_gop_moves_to_cut_educati.html
Jun 16, 2015 - In fact, the proposed spending level for federal educationprograms makes funding cuts below that of the pre-2008 sequester level. Here's a ...
This Is What Happens When Republicans Try to Destroy Public ...
What Happens When 85 People Are Worth the Same Amount as 3.5 Billion?republicans-try-destroy-public-edu...
Oct 8, 2014 - Outrage over deep budget cutbacks in key states is hurting theGOP. ... of Education would hurt the middle class and “eradicate” federal ...
New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts ...
www.ed.gov/.../new-data-show-house-republican-bill-would-allow-billions-cuts-large...
Feb 24, 2015 - New Data Show House Republican Bill Would Allow Billions in Cuts for Largest ... The U.S. Department of Education is releasing new data today ... more than $1.3 billion in federal funding: Baltimore City Public Schools (MD), ...

Because spending a lot of money on education has been working so well?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

"Deferred Gratification" Means Deferred Growing Up

What is the clerk going to live on when he has to quit that job and go to school?

The clerk has to quit the job?

Take the Upper Class Down

Of course he will have to, because his former workday will be taken up by class attendance and homework. Who are you trying to kid? You know perfectly well that college is work without pay, for little Mamas' Boys who are afraid to grow up and have no problem living on a teenager's income. I'm getting sick of Netwits pretending to be ignorant of the way things are just because they don't have the guts to admit they live under a screwjob regime.

There can be training that keeps workers employed while allowing them to stay current in their employment sector.

Today, we have rust belt workers who can't get hired even though manufacturing corporations are hiring those who understand modern manufacturing.

That didn't have to happen.

The catch is that it is cheap and easy for corporations to ignore training existing employees while hiring kids coming out of two year and 4 year programs that teach this stuff and who have a proven track record of being able to learn.

Once unions were smashed, manufacturing workers pretty much just lost their voice.

Do you think Trump's Sec of Labor cares about workers?

Aligning With the Preppy-Snob Democrats Was the Unions' Fatal Flaw

By opening up what has been hoarded on government land, Trump can double the wealth available. It's up to the workers to get a bigger share of it this time. The power of numbers can overcome the power of concentrated wealth.

Seriously? You think rust belt manufacturing workers are going to go live in the Oregon desert and raise cattle?

Beyond that, if you want land there, you can buy it. There are large numbers of square miles open for sale, some with working ranches.

So, let me ask you this:

Do you think that land will be given away for free?

And, if the government land in Oregon goes to private ownership, what do you think that will mean for the real estate value of property owned by neighbors? After all, those neighbors really have only one significant asset - their land.

The Idyllic Is for the Idle Rich

Anti-growth restricted raw materials, mineral and oil deposits, will be put into circulation. When the corporations buy or lease them, they will have to offer good wages. Besides, for example, the iron ore on land previously restricted from being used will resupply the steel industry, so workers won't have to move or buy land in order to benefit.

The frontier was never closed, because it is still out there waiting to be developed. The hereditary ruling class hoarded public land to keep real Americans in their place through artificial shortages.