Proud of my Home Town

[HikerGuy83]

I'm not sure. It's the general practice that offends me. How did we ever let this become a thing?

When was it ever not a thing?

 

[HikerGuy83]

EDIT: This is not a sports thread, please don't move it. The topic is the practice of state and local governments "competing" for corporate attention with tax breaks and special favors. The Chiefs bit is just an example.

I grew up in and around Kansas City, Missouri. Mostly, I just wanted to get out and eventually did that. But in the last few years, I've really enjoyed being a KC Chiefs fan. Mahomes is a blast to watch and it was nice seeing the "home team" - which never could quite break through, even with some pretty good teams in the nineties - build a "dynasty".

But recently the team, the organization, really let me down with their political scheming, trying to get the government to buy them a new stadium.

This is where I get to the proud part. I don't think government should give special breaks and "free shit" to anyone, least of all well-heeled NFL teams. But the Chiefs were antsy and wanted a shiny new stadium, financed by taxpayers. They threatened to move to Kansas if their demands weren't met. Even though I didn't want to see the Chiefs move, I was pleased that the residents of Jackson County (KCMO) told them to buzz off, and voted down the proposal to give them what they want. So, the Chiefs announced they are moving to Kansas, where they're being showered with money and benefits.

I put this in "Politics" rather than the sports section because that's really the part I want to talk about. The practice of states and municipalities competing for large companies to move there, with tax abatements or straight up gifts, is just wrong. It's a gross violation of equal protection and we shouldn't allow it at any level. If a state wants to attract more business by lowering taxes - for everyone - then great. But to single out specific companies for special treatment should be an affront to all Americans.

It's official: The Kansas City Chiefs are moving from Missouri to Wyandotte County, Kansas

A major tax incentives package approved Monday by Kansas lawmakers will help the Chiefs build a new $3 billion domed stadium.

www.kcur.org

I lived in Johnson County, Kansas (City of Lenexa) for a long time.

The word I get is that Jackson County did little to improve or maintain the area around the stadiums and the Chiefs felt they needed a better situation.

Not sure when you left, but Wyandotte, Kansas pulled off a major coup when they got the NASCAR track located there. An entire large shopping district, the legends sprung next to it, not to mention some high end housing. It really got Wyandotte rolling again. Now, they will get this stadium. The county is all over it. The people want it badly. Johnson County (where a large number of season ticket holders hail from is much closer and you can bet they wanted it too. Pluse they get the offices and training facility. Many of the chiefs live in Leawood and close by....so better for them.

Jackson County blew it.

As for taxes.....you can bet Jackson County was offering up deals, just not good enough.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

the issue is that the cities want the tax revenues from the events. Hotel, restaurants, transportation, airports, beverages in the building, with ticket revenues for the number of home games. It makes sense to me. Unless you just want sports to go away, and if you think that, that's never going to happen. Why shouldn't the people/ fans vote to keep their teams rather than them moving to some other location? Weird.

I just don't think its right to impose taxes on someone who is visiting the city for a product they aren't going to see while stuffing the pockets of some pro sports team owner. I know sports aren't going away but it should never go to a vote. The owner of the team should pay for his own arena. Its his/her team isnt it?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The problem is the other cities. Do you really want your teams to go away? interesting.

Its a sport. Doesn't really bother me if they go away. I'd rather watch a college game. Yeah, you're right though. The problem is the other cities also.

 

[jc456]

I just don't think its right to impose taxes on someone who is visiting the city for a product they aren't going to see while stuffing the pockets of some pro sports team owner. I know sports aren't going away but it should never go to a vote. The owner of the team should pay for his own arena. Its his/her team isnt it?

Been to Dallas lately? Five local taxes. How many teams?

BTW, learned today that alcohol tax going up 1.5% in Illinois. But it’s trump and tariffs!!! Yep democrats. Many more taxes on other things as well, democrats, not trump

 

[dblack]

When was it ever not a thing?

Good question, but no excuse.

 

[dblack]

I lived in Johnson County, Kansas (City of Lenexa) for a long time.

The word I get is that Jackson County did little to improve or maintain the area around the stadiums and the Chiefs felt they needed a better situation.

Not sure when you left, but Wyandotte, Kansas pulled off a major coup when they got the NASCAR track located there. An entire large shopping district, the legends sprung next to it, not to mention some high end housing. It really got Wyandotte rolling again. Now, they will get this stadium. The county is all over it. The people want it badly. Johnson County (where a large number of season ticket holders hail from is much closer and you can bet they wanted it too. Pluse they get the offices and training facility. Many of the chiefs live in Leawood and close by....so better for them.

Jackson County blew it.

As for taxes.....you can bet Jackson County was offering up deals, just not good enough.

Well, the voters refused to approve the deal they put together.

I totally get why people might want the stadium there, the financial "investment", the benefit to the community, etc.. I just think it's bad policy and violates equal protection. For large, corporate interests it's become a game bartering with states for "free shit" and special exemptions from laws, laws that the rest of us have to follow.

Ultimately, I'm saying that no one, no company, no individual, should be given special exemptions from the law, especially not due to some quid pro quo. That smacks of bribery and extortion.

 

[dblack]

Are states “promoting the general welfare” of the people by incentivizing business enterprises to move there?

Nope. They're doing the opposite. You seem have adopted the liberals' deliberate misreading of the general welfare clause. It's not a grant of power for the government do whatever the current administration claims is good for the country. It's a limitation on the how the government can use tax funds. They were saying the government couldn't spend tax money on special interests, or otherwise line the pockets of anyone with a lot of political influence. They wanted to ensure that taxes would be spent on things the benefitted the country generally.

More jobs, more local revenues?

The government isn't there to provide us with jobs, or to maximize revenue for most favored corporations.

Speaking of misread Constitutional phrases, the "Commerce Clause" empowers, arguably requires, the federal government to do something about this. This is exactly the kind of situation it was written for, and not for most of the crap they've used it to justify.

 

[jc456]

It’s their job to provide the environment for private jobs indeed

 

[dblack]

It’s their job to provide the environment for private jobs indeed

But that's not what we're talking about here. There's a big difference between maintaining property laws and a free market, and colluding with corporations to give your constituents jobs.

 

[progressive hunter]

Kansas City Mo is a shithole.

Kansas City among top 10 most dangerous cities in U.S., new ranking says

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article305044456.html

kc like most cities has small areas that give the whole city a bad name,, here in kc its the east side where all the crime and killings happen,,
the city for the most part is a great place and would be greater if not for government promoting degeneracy and crime by playing the race and victim cards as excuses for bad behavior,,

 

[jc456]

But that's not what we're talking about here. There's a big difference between maintaining property laws and a free market, and colluding with corporations to give your constituents jobs.

so they aren't supposed to care about the constituents working? I'd be promoting the shit out of a company coming in to give my constituents as many jobs as they could. Still don't know why it's a bad thing for citizens working for private business. Especially if said business helped with tax revenues for the entire city. More people working private jobs the more revenue. I challenge anyone to prove that wrong. Stay away from property taxes should be the saying as loud as possible.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Nope. They're doing the opposite. You seem have adopted the liberals' deliberate misreading of the general welfare clause. It's not a grant of power for the government do whatever the current administration claims is good for the country. It's a limitation on the how the government can use tax funds. They were saying the government couldn't spend tax money on special interests, or otherwise line the pockets of anyone with a lot of political influence. They wanted to ensure that taxes would be spent on things the benefitted the country generally.

The government isn't there to provide us with jobs, or to maximize revenue for most favored corporations.

Speaking of misread Constitutional phrases, the "Commerce Clause" empowers, arguably requires, the federal government to do something about this. This is exactly the kind of situation it was written for, and not for most of the crap they've used it to justify.

By and large I agree with your base premise.
Playing devils advocate, I make the point that if you believe government should stop making investment in the people then we have a lot of bullshit to unwind…it can’t stop at ending investment in big business.
Here’s just a few things to consider…Should government/taxpayers fund the following?
Public education
Healthcare
Welfare

 

[dblack]

By and large I agree with your base premise.
Playing devils advocate, I make the point that if you believe government should stop making investment in the people then we have a lot of bullshit to unwind…it can’t stop at ending investment in big business.

Yep.

Here’s just a few things to consider…Should government/taxpayers fund the following?
Public education
Healthcare
Welfare

Ideally, no. But if there's widespread agreement on the matter, it's not as damaging. Public education, for example, has had broad support for a long time. As long as we keep it local, it's not so bad. Same with safety nets for the poor. But some of the things they're pushing for now don't have that kind of support - like nationalizing health care. And they keep trying to push them through anyway. That's got to stop.

 

[dblack]

so they aren't supposed to care about the constituents working?

No. Not unless you're advocating for the People's Republic of Amerika. The government isn't there to "run" society. It's not there to make sure we're all "working". It's there to protect us from bad guys, keep the peace and manage the commons - and otherwise stay out of the way. We need to slam the door shut on the "social engineers" who want to use it to "transform" society.

I'd be promoting the shit out of a company coming in to give my constituents as many jobs as they could.

Good to know. I won't vote for you.

 

[jc456]

No. Not unless you're advocating for the People's Republic of Amerika. The government isn't there to "run" society. It's not there to make sure we're all "working". It's there to protect us from bad guys, keep the peace and manage the commons - and otherwise stay out of the way. We need to slam the door shut on the "social engineers" who want to use it to "transform" society.

Good to know. I won't vote for you.

So every EV that receives subsidies is from that party peoples republic of America, solar panel wind turbine. Oki doki

 

[dblack]

So every EV that receives subsidies is from that party peoples republic of America, solar panel wind turbine. Oki doki

So, I don't know what you're rambling about here. Want to try again?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I've heard of sports districts set up for public funding of stadiums and arenas through sales taxes generated within the district. But seeing what they're done in Kansas (link: The Kansas City Star) in which they've included areas far beyond the stadium and new training facility, seems nuts. I never heard about any public vote on the matter, national news and sports headlines I noticed only mentioned the Kansas legislature.

Was this something the State of Kansas pushed down the local citizens' throats?

Not at all. The practice center will be located close to the NASCAR track where the city just killed it with a redevelopment project. Headquarters in JoCo....richest place in the area.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Well, they'll get the finger back. The Missouri/Kansas split isn't necessarily a friendly one. I know lots of people who aren't renewing season tickets, even though the actual move won't be for several years.

The friends I have in JoCo started giving up tickets because KCMO let the area around Arrowhead turn into a drug zone. They didn't think it was safe.

Gonna be a whole new world now.