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Oh, so I guess only "brown people" are going to be pulled over and asked to show ID in Arizona?
That's just too fucking funny!
So, in your view, some "brown person" is caught speeding, he can't produce ID so he should just be let go because we wouldn't want to offend the poor lil' "brown people". And god forbid he's a LAW BREAKER who is a CRIMINAL and entered this country and resides here ILLEGALLY.
Fuck it!....lets just do away with ALL laws. That way, you won't have to worry about presenting ID.
Yeah... no.
No-one mentioned anything about "driving" in the bill. If a person is pulled over, while driving, and they do not have their driver's license, then they are specifically guilty of the crime of driving without a license, and can be arrested for that.
Here is the actual text of the bill that pertains to our conversation:
E. A Law Enforcement Officer, without a Warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes a person removable from the United States.
That means, if a police officer suspects a person might be an illegal alien (which is an offense that makes a person removable from the US) than they can arrest them, at will, without a warrant.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
And as long as the 'probable cause' is followed, that illegal will have to commit some infraction or behave suspiciously enough to attract an officer's attention and interest.
For example, our small business provides insurance services including, among other things, value and safety inspections of insured properties. And among those properties we inspect are a lot of restaurants.
When there was at least a reasonable attempt to arrest and deport illegals, sometimes we could enter the cook line area with our camera, and folks would stampede out of range of that camera. We knew most of those would be illegals who didn't want to be caught on film and they didn't know if we were INS or what.
Then during the 'don't ask - don't tell' era of illegal immigration, those same folks would pose with big smiles next to their deep fryer or whatever. They had no fear.
Well, I'm guessing in Arizona they'll be scampering out of range of any cameras again now. People with a clear conscience don't worry when a cop comes around. Everybody who turns around before they get to a checkpoint or who try to hurriedly vacate the premises if a cop shows up can be stopped. And if they produce suspicious ID, should they not be detained until their identify is confirmed?
Again, what possible objection could you have to that?
It is astounding. What this law does is exactly doing what LAW is already on the FED Books. it's just the FEDS aren't doing it. It forces the AZ cops to do the Job the FED isn't doing. And I think the FEDS should be applauding AND paying the AZ cops for doing the FED's Job.
It is astounding. What this law does is exactly doing what LAW is already on the FED Books. it's just the FEDS aren't doing it. It forces the AZ cops to do the Job the FED isn't doing. And I think the FEDS should be applauding AND paying the AZ cops for doing the FED's Job.
Bullshit.
Show me specifically where any federal law states that federal officials can arrest you for not having ID.
They can detain YOU until they figure out WHO you really are. Ever watched just ONE episode of COPS? Local, State, -and- FEDS can do it even NOW...
And as long as the 'probable cause' is followed, that illegal will have to commit some infraction or behave suspiciously enough to attract an officer's attention and interest.
E. A Law Enforcement Officer, without a Warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes a person removable from the United States.
For example, our small business provides insurance services including, among other things, value and safety inspections of insured properties. And among those properties we inspect are a lot of restaurants.
When there was at least a reasonable attempt to arrest and deport illegals, sometimes we could enter the cook line area with our camera, and folks would stampede out of range of that camera. We knew most of those would be illegals who didn't want to be caught on film and they didn't know if we were INS or what.
Then during the 'don't ask - don't tell' era of illegal immigration, those same folks would pose with big smiles next to their deep fryer or whatever. They had no fear.
Well, I'm guessing in Arizona they'll be scampering out of range of any cameras again now. People with a clear conscience don't worry when a cop comes around. Everybody who turns around before they get to a checkpoint or who try to hurriedly vacate the premises if a cop shows up can be stopped. And if they produce suspicious ID, should they not be detained until their identify is confirmed?
Again, what possible objection could you have to that?
It's called "detaining" Vast. The "Arrest" happens after it's been determined laws have been broken.It is astounding. What this law does is exactly doing what LAW is already on the FED Books. it's just the FEDS aren't doing it. It forces the AZ cops to do the Job the FED isn't doing. And I think the FEDS should be applauding AND paying the AZ cops for doing the FED's Job.
Bullshit.
Show me specifically where any federal law states that federal officials can arrest you for not having ID.
A police offoicer can tell in about five seconds if a person is a natural born citizen or not.
If a Mexcian cannot comprehend English well chances are he's/she's not a natural born citizen, if the person has no ID or "green" card then further investigation is needed to detemine his or her legal status. Why would you object to that?
It's called "detaining" Vast. The "Arrest" happens after it's been determined laws have been broken.It is astounding. What this law does is exactly doing what LAW is already on the FED Books. it's just the FEDS aren't doing it. It forces the AZ cops to do the Job the FED isn't doing. And I think the FEDS should be applauding AND paying the AZ cops for doing the FED's Job.
Bullshit.
Show me specifically where any federal law states that federal officials can arrest you for not having ID.
Get off the "arrest" crap buddy!
It's called "detaining" Vast. The "Arrest" happens after it's been determined laws have been broken.
Get off the "arrest" crap buddy!
a police offoicer can tell in about five seconds if a person is a natural born citizen or not.
If a mexcian cannot comprehend english well chances are he's/she's not a natural born citizen, if the person has no id or "green" card then further investigation is needed to detemine his or her legal status. Why would you object to that?
ok, you do understand that many legal immigrants in arizona don't speak english very well, and that many mexican illegals speak quite a bit of english, right?
And if this was to be the main qualifier, it would have been written into the bill.
Picture this scenario:
I don't like my neighbor jose, so i call the police and tell them he's an illegal alien, and has fake id.just because your nazi azz would do it doesn't mean the average american would.. Dumbazz.
that's probable cause. Jose will be arrested until he can prove he's not an illegal, and if the cops don't act on it, i can sue them.
What a sad sack of tomatoes Vast is in this? His whole premise is working from the 'racial profiling' side of this when there is nothing in the AZ law that even describes remotely what he is talking about.
Vast assumes that cops are gonna do as Liberals do, and vast belives, and profiles people on their looks alone.
And to think these creeps champion MLK? MLK would be ashamed of every stinkin' one of them.
drama queen.
Trampling on WHOM? Arizona is enforcing what the FED refuses to do, and they are protecting their citizens.What a sad sack of tomatoes Vast is in this? His whole premise is working from the 'racial profiling' side of this when there is nothing in the AZ law that even describes remotely what he is talking about.
Vast assumes that cops are gonna do as Liberals do, and vast belives, and profiles people on their looks alone.
And to think these creeps champion MLK? MLK would be ashamed of every stinkin' one of them.
T, you are obviously a hyper-partisan bullshitter extraodinaire. I could give two shits about the "Liberal" or the "Conservative" points of this.
What I care about is that the rights of individual American Citizens in the State of Arizona are going to be trampled by this piece of crap legislation. And any "Libertarian" worth his salt should be up in arms about this too, as it is in fact an individual rights issue.
Hell, according to you people, LIBERALS are the Fascists. We're the ones that should be enacting Government-imposed restrictions like this. Go Figure.
A police offoicer can tell in about five seconds if a person is a natural born citizen or not.
If a Mexcian cannot comprehend English well chances are he's/she's not a natural born citizen, if the person has no ID or "green" card then further investigation is needed to detemine his or her legal status. Why would you object to that?
OK, you do understand that many legal immigrants in Arizona don't speak English very well,
and that many Mexican illegals speak quite a bit of English, right?
And if this was to be the main qualifier, it would have been written into the bill.
Picture this scenario:
I don't like my neighbor Jose, so I call the police and tell them he's an illegal alien, and has fake ID.
A police offoicer can tell in about five seconds if a person is a natural born citizen or not.
If a Mexcian cannot comprehend English well chances are he's/she's not a natural born citizen, if the person has no ID or "green" card then further investigation is needed to detemine his or her legal status. Why would you object to that?
OK, you do understand that many legal immigrants in Arizona don't speak English very well,
Yep... So what? The law doesn't provide for someone to be arrested because they can't speak english...
Yep... and that won't help them from being arrested and deported.
And if this was to be the main qualifier, it would have been written into the bill.
It's not a qualifier...
Picture this scenario:
I don't like my neighbor Jose, so I call the police and tell them he's an illegal alien, and has fake ID.
Great... What if you don't like your neighbor and you call the cops and tell them that he's a serial killer...
If he is... then they arrest him and take him to jail... if he's not, then they arrest you and take YOU to jail.
A police offoicer can tell in about five seconds if a person is a natural born citizen or not.
If a Mexcian cannot comprehend English well chances are he's/she's not a natural born citizen, if the person has no ID or "green" card then further investigation is needed to detemine his or her legal status. Why would you object to that?
OK, you do understand that many legal immigrants in Arizona don't speak English very well, and that many Mexican illegals speak quite a bit of English, right?
And if this was to be the main qualifier, it would have been written into the bill.
Picture this scenario:
I don't like my neighbor Jose, so I call the police and tell them he's an illegal alien, and has fake ID.
That's probable cause. Jose will be arrested until he can prove he's not an Illegal, and if the cops don't act on it, I can SUE THEM.
So, you champion the rights of Arizonan's who are watching their state being devastated by the violence spewing over the border into their sanctuary. But only as long as they don't enforce their laws......That's quite interesting, buddy!What a sad sack of tomatoes Vast is in this? His whole premise is working from the 'racial profiling' side of this when there is nothing in the AZ law that even describes remotely what he is talking about.
Vast assumes that cops are gonna do as Liberals do, and vast belives, and profiles people on their looks alone.
And to think these creeps champion MLK? MLK would be ashamed of every stinkin' one of them.
T, you are obviously a hyper-partisan bullshitter extraodinaire. I could give two shits about the "Liberal" or the "Conservative" points of this.
What I care about is that the rights of individual American Citizens in the State of Arizona are going to be trampled by this piece of crap legislation. And any "Libertarian" worth his salt should be up in arms about this too, as it is in fact an individual rights issue.
Hell, according to you people, LIBERALS are the Fascists. We're the ones that should be enacting Government-imposed restrictions like this. Go Figure.
Giving Vast LWC props here for keeping it civil despite being considerably outnumbered here. (I've been there and it is tough keeping up with a dozen different angles--all opposed to yours--coming at you all at once.)
Seriously, I do see where you are coming from Vast, and I appreciate that you are opposed to what looks to you like an evolving police state with unlimited powers.
What you are leaving out of the equation, however, is that there is no other way, at least that anybody has presented, to protect and secure the rights of Americans citizens and others legally present in Arizona.
When you can offer a practical alternative to this much more powerful law enforcement tool the Arizona legislature has just overwhelmingly passed, I'm sure they would like to hear from you.
I can't think of any other way to deal with the problem that won't make it much, much worse. I think that is why even most of the Hispanic members of the legislature voted 'aye' for this bill.
