Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

[Anomalism]

Did you read the article I posted? Another snip,
But mostly I was scared. I remained quiet about the climate disinformation campaign because I was afraid of losing friends and funding. The few times I summoned the courage to defend climate science from those who misrepresent it I suffered harsh consequences. And so I mostly stood by and did next to nothing as my fellow environmentalists terrified the public.

Your anecdote is irrelevant but I'll respond to it anyway. He doesn't say he doesn't think AGW is happening.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If you had insight into the scientific community like I do, you’d know that not following the narrative is a career destroyer.

The scientist that proves AGW isn't happening will be rich and famous for the rest of their life. Every scientist would love to prove AGW isn't happening.

Yes, like Galileo is famous today.
But he was silenced by those that controlled science with threats, as is today.

 

[abu afak]

Climate myths: It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?
EARTH 16 May 2007
By David L Chandler

Temperature and CO2 over the past 500 million years

The Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum
(Image: Robert A. Rohde, Global Warming Art)

The Holocene Climate Optimum
(Image: Robert A. Rohde, Global Warming Art)

See all climate myths in our special feature.



First of all, it is worth bearing in mind that any data on global temperatures before about 150 years ago is an estimate, a reconstruction based on second-hand evidence such as ice cores and isotopic ratios. The evidence becomes sparser the further back we look, and its interpretation often involves a set of assumptions. In other words, a fair amount of guesswork.
It is certainly true that Earth has experienced some extremes that were warmer than today, as well as much colder periods. In some cases the main factors that caused these past warm periods – and the ebb and flow of ice ages over recent millennia – are well understood, though not in all. Many of the details remain unknown.
Within the past billion years, there may have been one or more periods when the whole planet was covered in ice. This “snowball Earth” phenomenon remains controversial, with some evidence suggesting that there were at least some areas of unfrozen land and water even at the height of the freezing (read more here, here and here). It is clear, though, that from about 750 million to 580 million years ago, the Earth was in the grip of an ice age more extreme than any since.
Why did it happen? The spread of ice produces further cooling by reflecting more of the Sun’s energy back into space. But ice on land blocks the chemical weathering of rocks that removes CO2 from the atmosphere, which leads to warming as levels rise.
Snowball Earth may have been possible only because the continents were clustered on the equator, meaning CO2 removal would have continued even as ice sheets spread from the poles. Only when most of the land was covered would greenhouse gases have started to build up to levels high enough to overcome the cooling effects of the extensive ice cover.
Mass extinctions
After this deep freeze, there were several “hothouse earth” periods when the temperature exceeded those we experience today. The warmest was probably the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), which peaked about 55 million years ago. Global temperatures during this event may have warmed by 5°C to 8°C within a few thousand years, with the Arctic Ocean reaching a subtropical 23°C. Mass extinctions resulted.
The warming, which lasted 200,000 years, was caused by the release of massive amounts of methane or CO2. It was thought to have come from the thawing of methane clathrates in deep ocean sediments, but the latest theory is that it was caused by a massive volcanic eruption that heated up coal deposits. In other words, the PETM is an example of catastrophic global warming triggered by the build-up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
Since then, the Earth has cooled. For the past million years or so, the climate has switched between ice ages and warmer interglacial periods with temperatures similar to those of the past few millennia. These periodic changes seem to be triggered by oscillations in the planet’s orbit and inclination that alter the amount of solar radiation reaching Earth.
However, it is clear that the orbital changes alone would not have produced large temperature changes and that there must have been some kind of feedback effect (see the section on Milankovitch cycles in this article).
Inundated cities
In between ice ages, some lesser peaks of temperature have occurred a number of times, especially around 125,000 years ago. At this time, temperatures may have been about 1°C to 2°C degrees warmer than today. Sea level was 5 to 8 metres higher than today – a rise sufficient to inundate most of the world’s coastal cities (IPCC report, pdf format). This peak was triggered by the orbital cycles.
After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all. Again, orbital variations were the trigger, but these led to changes in vegetation and sea-ice cover that produced marked regional climatic alterations.
From about AD 800 to AD 1300, there was a minor peak called the medieval warm period, but it was not as warm as recent decades (see Climate myths: It was warmer during the Medieval period).


Read more: Climate myths: It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?

 

[Anomalism]

Yes, like Galileo is famous today.
But he was silenced by those that controlled science with threats, as is today.

Galileo was a scientist and much of his opposition came from religious people.

 

[ding]

I have to look it up but there was a famous scam study done is the UK somewhere and those guys got busted and had to apologize.

And you think that undermines the global scientific community on their views regarding the climate?

I think the background conditions which led to the transition from a greenhouse world to an ice house world undermines their views regarding climate.

 

[Anomalism]

I think the background conditions which led to the transition from a greenhouse world to an ice house world undermines their views regarding climate.

And you think your observation is either ignored or unnoticed by the people most educated on this topic? Who do you think is doing the research that expands our understanding of this stuff?

 

[Anomalism]

Climate myths: It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?
EARTH 16 May 2007
By David L Chandler

Temperature and CO2 over the past 500 million years

The Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum
(Image: Robert A. Rohde, Global Warming Art)

The Holocene Climate Optimum
(Image: Robert A. Rohde, Global Warming Art)

See all climate myths in our special feature.



First of all, it is worth bearing in mind that any data on global temperatures before about 150 years ago is an estimate, a reconstruction based on second-hand evidence such as ice cores and isotopic ratios. The evidence becomes sparser the further back we look, and its interpretation often involves a set of assumptions. In other words, a fair amount of guesswork.
It is certainly true that Earth has experienced some extremes that were warmer than today, as well as much colder periods. In some cases the main factors that caused these past warm periods – and the ebb and flow of ice ages over recent millennia – are well understood, though not in all. Many of the details remain unknown.
Within the past billion years, there may have been one or more periods when the whole planet was covered in ice. This “snowball Earth” phenomenon remains controversial, with some evidence suggesting that there were at least some areas of unfrozen land and water even at the height of the freezing (read more here, here and here). It is clear, though, that from about 750 million to 580 million years ago, the Earth was in the grip of an ice age more extreme than any since.
Why did it happen? The spread of ice produces further cooling by reflecting more of the Sun’s energy back into space. But ice on land blocks the chemical weathering of rocks that removes CO2 from the atmosphere, which leads to warming as levels rise.
Snowball Earth may have been possible only because the continents were clustered on the equator, meaning CO2 removal would have continued even as ice sheets spread from the poles. Only when most of the land was covered would greenhouse gases have started to build up to levels high enough to overcome the cooling effects of the extensive ice cover.
Mass extinctions
After this deep freeze, there were several “hothouse earth” periods when the temperature exceeded those we experience today. The warmest was probably the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), which peaked about 55 million years ago. Global temperatures during this event may have warmed by 5°C to 8°C within a few thousand years, with the Arctic Ocean reaching a subtropical 23°C. Mass extinctions resulted.
The warming, which lasted 200,000 years, was caused by the release of massive amounts of methane or CO2. It was thought to have come from the thawing of methane clathrates in deep ocean sediments, but the latest theory is that it was caused by a massive volcanic eruption that heated up coal deposits. In other words, the PETM is an example of catastrophic global warming triggered by the build-up of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
Since then, the Earth has cooled. For the past million years or so, the climate has switched between ice ages and warmer interglacial periods with temperatures similar to those of the past few millennia. These periodic changes seem to be triggered by oscillations in the planet’s orbit and inclination that alter the amount of solar radiation reaching Earth.
However, it is clear that the orbital changes alone would not have produced large temperature changes and that there must have been some kind of feedback effect (see the section on Milankovitch cycles in this article).
Inundated cities
In between ice ages, some lesser peaks of temperature have occurred a number of times, especially around 125,000 years ago. At this time, temperatures may have been about 1°C to 2°C degrees warmer than today. Sea level was 5 to 8 metres higher than today – a rise sufficient to inundate most of the world’s coastal cities (IPCC report, pdf format). This peak was triggered by the orbital cycles.
After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all. Again, orbital variations were the trigger, but these led to changes in vegetation and sea-ice cover that produced marked regional climatic alterations.
From about AD 800 to AD 1300, there was a minor peak called the medieval warm period, but it was not as warm as recent decades (see Climate myths: It was warmer during the Medieval period).


Read more: Climate myths: It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?

The effort you put into your posts is admirable, but I can't help but think it's lost on the people you're trying to get through to.

 

[ding]

I think the background conditions which led to the transition from a greenhouse world to an ice house world undermines their views regarding climate.

And you think your observation is either ignored or unnoticed by the people most educated on this topic? Who do you think is doing the research that expands our understanding of this stuff?

Yes. I do believe the climate scientists are ignoring it.

Typically, the geologic community. They understand past climates better than any other group because it is needed to understand how the geology unfolded. Their take on past climates is unbiased for the most part.

 

[surada]

I blame Fred Flinstone.
Do the Envirowhackos ever get tired of being wrong about everything they preach in their religious cult?

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

wattsupwiththat.com

10,000 years ago Saudi Arabia was a Savanna grassland with shallow lakes and rivers. So what is your point? Are you just mocking educated people?

 

[Anomalism]

Yes. I do believe the climate scientists are ignoring it.

And you think they're ignoring your perspective because it proves AGW isn't happening? Do you think there might be a big difference between you and a climate scientist when it comes to knowledge about how our climate works?

 

[Weatherman2020]

I blame Fred Flinstone.
Do the Envirowhackos ever get tired of being wrong about everything they preach in their religious cult?

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

wattsupwiththat.com

10,000 years ago Saudi Arabia was a Savanna grassland with shallow lakes and rivers. So what is your point? Are you just mocking educated people?

I’m mocking liars.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yes. I do believe the climate scientists are ignoring it.

And you think they're ignoring your perspective because it proves AGW isn't happening? Do you think there might be a big difference between you and a climate scientist when it comes to knowledge about how our climate works?

Good sheeple.

 

[Anomalism]

Good sheeple.

Do you think I'm supposed to take shit like this more seriously than scientists? You people seem to not even realize that the people doing the work you think refutes AGW are climate scientists that don't think their work refutes AGW. You think you know the implications of the work done by scientists better than the scientists that did the work. It takes an unbelievable amount of arrogance to do that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Good sheeple.

Do you think I'm supposed to take shit like this more seriously than scientists? You people seem to not even realize that the people doing the work you think refutes AGW are climate scientists that don't think their work refutes AGW.

I just put on a white lab coat now I’ve got 2 million leftist sheep followers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I blame Fred Flinstone.
Do the Envirowhackos ever get tired of being wrong about everything they preach in their religious cult?

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

wattsupwiththat.com

That can only mean that the internal combustion engine must be 11,000 years old!

 

[Anomalism]

I just put on a white lab coat now I’ve got 2 million leftist sheep followers.

So now it's just guys in lab coats? They're not actually experts of their field? Who does have authority in their field of work? You?

 

[Weatherman2020]

I just put on a white lab coat now I’ve got 2 million leftist sheep followers.

So now it's just guys in lab coats? They're not actually experts of their field? Who does have authority in their field of work? You?

I’m an expert with credentials. Follow me.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I blame Fred Flinstone.
Do the Envirowhackos ever get tired of being wrong about everything they preach in their religious cult?

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

wattsupwiththat.com

That can only mean that the internal combustion engine must be 11,000 years old!

And the receding glacier of 60 miles in the 1800’s proves that Jules Verne was doing more than just writing books.

 

[Anomalism]

I’m an expert with credentials. Follow me.

You have more authority on matters involving the climate than the global scientific community? More authority than every scientific institution on Earth? A troll is what you are.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I blame Fred Flinstone. Do the Envirowhackos ever get tired of being wrong about everything they preach in their religious cult? Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

Proof Of Warmer Earlier Climate! Swiss Geologist Studies 10,800-Year Old Tree Trunk Under Alps Glacier

Previously hidden under a Swiss glacier, a 10,800-year old tree trunk was discovered and tells us the Alps were much warmer in the early Holocene than today.

wattsupwiththat.com

No one claims that temps haven't varied over the eons. That's a given. The question is, what's the cause this time? Not all shifts in temp had the same cause. One of the most salient points in favor of AGW theory is the rapid time course of the rise, coinciding with an increase in greenhouse gases due to the Industrial Revolution, esp. CO2, such that human activity releases more in days than all the volcanoes on earth do in a normal year.

Do the Earth's volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? No.

I might be convinced, then I realized that the AGW Cult had to add in "warming in the deep oceans" to make your numbers add up.