Proof for the pro abortion crowd

sitarro

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More proof for the pro abortion crowd proving that before actual birth those fetuses just aren't human(sarcasm). Go to this site to see the most amazing ultrasound images ever created!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...n_page_id=1799&ct=5&expand=true#StartComments

A crowded womb
By NATASHA PEARLMAN - More by this author »Last updated at 16:12pm on 16th January 2007



A silicone model of fraternal twins - who have their own placenta and amniotic sac


Twins appear to kiss in the womb
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A twin leans over and kisses the cheek of her sister in a heart-warming picture that would not be out of place in any family home.

Yet these siblings are a not even born and the astonishing images have been captured on a new 'four-dimensional' ultrasound scan of the womb.

Gallery
• See the stunning 4D scans
• More Good Health features

The scans are a highly developed form of traditional ultrasound where very high frequency sound waves are used to produce images of what is inside the body.

As with older forms of ultra-sound, sound waves a emitted from a transducer, or probe, which is placed on the mother's abdomen and then moved to 'look at' areas in the uterus. These sound waves bounce back off the foetus, helping to create a 'picture' of the child on a screen.

The new 4D scan us ses the same frequency of sound waves w as in a normal ultrasound. But the sound waves are directed from many more angles, producing a 'real-time' video of the foetus as it moves and allowing scientists to say the images are in four dimensions.

This advanced technology has allowed scientists to capture the development of foetuses like never before, including twins and triplets jostling for space in the womb while grasping each other's hands and even faces.

The images have also allowed scientists to create life-size silicone models and astonishing computer-generated images of the multiple foetuses, some of which are seen in the pictures shown here.

For the first time, it has also been possible to see detailed pictures of 'vanishing twin syndrome' - where a foetus dies and is re-absorbed into the womb, often in the early stages of pregnancy.

Doctors estimate this occurs in 11 per cent of pregnancies. Some scientists have suggested that 'vanishing twin syndrome' occurs because of a lack of nutrients, so the mother's body naturally 'loses' one or more foetus in order to boost the survival of the others.

Scientists have also been able to examine a variety of twin called a 'mirror' twin, which occasionally occurs when embryos split. This means that while one twin is left-handed, the other is right-handed. But in extreme cases it can lead to one twin having its heart on the left, while the sibling has their heart on the right.

London-based obstetrician Professor Stuart Campbell, who is the pioneer of 4D scans in Britain, performed the scans for a National Geographic documentary.

He says: 'It was fascinating to see the babies in more detail than ever before. I was amazed at the detail in the faces - smiles, blinking - and the interaction between multiple foetuses.'

The scans were used to particular effect when charting the progress of the naturally conceived, identical quadruplets of Julie Carles, 38, whose story was revealed exclusively in the Mail last year.

The scans showed the four fetal bodies developing in minute detail - it is even possible to see their eyelids opening - as well as their developmental patterns as they jostle for space in the womb.
 

glockmail

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I predicted before that new ultrasound tech will decimate the pro-abortionists. When I saw my kids on regular ultra sound years ago it brought the whole issue to light for me.
 

Puddles

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Pro-abortion?? Talk about spinning, manipulating and being just plain irrational and illogical....I don't think anyone is pro-abortion, try pro-choice or it-doesn't-concern-me-so-I'll-mind-my-own-business spin.

What a woman (especially a woman you have no connection to whatsoever) does with HER body, is not anyone else's business but her's and her partner's...even then, the ultimate decision should be HERS.
 

glockmail

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Pro-abortion?? Talk about spinning, manipulating and being just plain irrational and illogical....I don't think anyone is pro-abortion, try pro-choice or it-doesn't-concern-me-so-I'll-mind-my-own-business spin.

What a woman (especially a woman you have no connection to whatsoever) does with HER body, is not anyone else's business but her's and her partner's...even then, the ultimate decision should be HERS.
What about the guy who owns 1/2 of the baby? What about the baby? You conveniently forgot them.
 

wiggles

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Pro-abortion?? Talk about spinning, manipulating and being just plain irrational and illogical....I don't think anyone is pro-abortion, try pro-choice or it-doesn't-concern-me-so-I'll-mind-my-own-business spin.

What a woman (especially a woman you have no connection to whatsoever) does with HER body, is not anyone else's business but her's and her partner's...even then, the ultimate decision should be HERS.


Can't get enough of 'em.
 

Puddles

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What about the guy who owns 1/2 of the baby? What about the baby? You conveniently forgot them.
Owns??? So now people are property? I didn't realize we can own each other. :rofl:

Well if you want to use that draconian mentality, then:
a) it's not baby, it's a fetus
b) while the fetus is in the mother's womb it's HER property, therefore SHE owns it fully
c) when the man can carry a fetus to term and give birth then he owns it
 

Puddles

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First you claim a fetus is not a human, so I call it property for you (what else would it be). Now to you its a person again.

At least you are consistently inconsistent.
Nice try but you know that's not true. I made the fetus remark AFTER you said "What about the guy who owns 1/2 of the baby?" to which I then replied how do you own a baby. Want to try another way to spin it?
 
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sitarro

sitarro

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Nice try but you know that's not true. I made the fetus remark AFTER you said "What about the guy who owns 1/2 of the baby?" to which I then replied how do you own a baby. Want to try another way to spin it?
Hey puddle,
Did you bother to look at the ultrasound picture on the site? Are those triplets not babys? Don't they have everything you have? How inconvenient to actually have the technology to see inside the womb to get a better understanding of what the woman has the choice of getting rid of in a way that kills that life. These triplets are not a cancerous growth or a wart, they are little humans. It's the year 2007, when women and soon hopefully men, have a huge variety of ways to prevent a pregnancy from happening and yet you want to continue the draconian act of killing little humans for convenience..... how very caring of you.

Oh by the way, Glock has a very good point.... if the woman decides to have the child the father, whether ever allowed to see the child, will be legally responsible for the cost until said child turns 18.....how very fair of you.

Your arguments are weak at best.
 

no1tovote4

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Pro-abortion?? Talk about spinning, manipulating and being just plain irrational and illogical....I don't think anyone is pro-abortion, try pro-choice or it-doesn't-concern-me-so-I'll-mind-my-own-business spin.

What a woman (especially a woman you have no connection to whatsoever) does with HER body, is not anyone else's business but her's and her partner's...even then, the ultimate decision should be HERS.
Honestly this depends entirely on what you think of the fetus. If it is a little human then what she chooses effects the entire life of another human. If you don't think it is human, then you believe it is some other thing that deserves no consideration.

Personally, I still believe we should remove the fetus in an attempt to incubate it ex-utero. I know fully that most would die at the beginning of this new way. But it would, in the end as the new science progressed, give actual choice rather than solely the choice to end life or to self-incubate.

Imagine as women could choose whether to carry naturally or to incubate ex-utero... Imagine the idea that women could have children, like men, without ever leaving work to recuperate or for pregnancy related illness. They could also choose to give the fetus up for later adoption, all without having to kill the child.

We would need to open up adoption laws to make it more accessible so that the children would not end up parentless if they are later allowed to incubate fully....

*sigh*

If you honestly understand that other people believe in their souls that these are children, you would also understand that to those who believe that way there is absolutely no excuse to allow their death for convenience in any way. The whole "It's HER body" thing seems to fail when you think of the slaughter of children. For those that believe that way, that is what it appears to be.
 

manu1959

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Pro-abortion?? Talk about spinning, manipulating and being just plain irrational and illogical....I don't think anyone is pro-abortion, try pro-choice or it-doesn't-concern-me-so-I'll-mind-my-own-business spin.

What a woman (especially a woman you have no connection to whatsoever) does with HER body, is not anyone else's business but her's and her partner's...even then, the ultimate decision should be HERS.
and the human fetus....
 

Puddles

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Hey puddle,
Did you bother to look at the ultrasound picture on the site? Are those triplets not babys? Don't they have everything you have? How inconvenient to actually have the technology to see inside the womb to get a better understanding of what the woman has the choice of getting rid of in a way that kills that life. These triplets are not a cancerous growth or a wart, they are little humans. It's the year 2007, when women and soon hopefully men, have a huge variety of ways to prevent a pregnancy from happening and yet you want to continue the draconian act of killing little humans for convenience..... how very caring of you.
I never said if I was pro abortion or not...you know why? Because it doesn't concern me, at least not at this point and if it did, I wouldn't want anyone preaching to me about their opinions on the matter. Another woman getting an abortion IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS and it' s not yours either.

Why you feel the need to force your opinions on others?


Some food for thought. All those who are so against abortion (an abortion that doesn't concern you), why you would rather have 2 selfish and unloving parents bring a child into this world? The chances of that kid being abused or neglected are higher. Often abused/neglected kids turn to a life of crime or they create dependency on social programs, social programs which you probably don't support or want..or probably have been cut from federal/state funding. Who will care for these unwanted children? Isn't our society already over-burden.

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children". - Garret Hardin
 

MissileMan

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If you honestly understand that other people believe in their souls that these are children, you would also understand that to those who believe that way there is absolutely no excuse to allow their death for convenience in any way. The whole "It's HER body" thing seems to fail when you think of the slaughter of children. For those that believe that way, that is what it appears to be.
I will find it difficult to take these people seriously until they demonstrate more interest in preventing unwanted pregnancies and less interest in trying to impose their sense of sexual morality.

BTW, where are the ultrasounds of these twins from the first trimester?
 

Puddles

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What's also interesting, is that the same people who are 'pro life' :rolleyes: also support the death penalty and lack of gun control...oh the irony :rolleyes:
 

wiggles

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I will find it difficult to take these people seriously until they demonstrate more interest in preventing unwanted pregnancies and less interest in trying to impose their sense of sexual morality.

BTW, where are the ultrasounds of these twins from the first trimester?
I'm really much more pro-birth control options and common sense sex education than I am pro-abortion. I'd really rather no one ever have an abortion. That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
And someone who wouldn't mind getting an abortion, who would get one cavalierly, probably shouldn't be a mother anyway.
 

manu1959

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How? Instead of killing an unborn baby, you kill a fully developed adult with a life and family?
who did the unborn baby kill?

sound like you would prefer to kill the innocent and let the mass murder live
 

Puddles

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who did the unborn baby kill?
That's a very simplistic an naive view on abortion. Tell me, would YOU be willing to pay for and support the baby once it's born?? I highly doubt it, so why do you feel the right to place judgement on what someone else decides to do with their fetus?

sound like you would prefer to kill the innocent and let the mass murder live
So now you're assuming that all people on death row are mass murders? They couldn't possibly be innocent?

The point is, you're trying to play 'god' by picking and choosing who gets to live and die.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing someone out of revenge is never the answer.

On one hand you're trying pretend like you really care about a fetus because it's so valuable and blah, blah but on the other hand you're ready to kill a human because you believe him to be an enemy. Very logical indeed.
 

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