Progressives call for US to take in some of the expected 1 million Gaza refugees

[Jarlaxle]

The Muslim nations should take in the Palestinians but have no interest in helping that group. They probably have good reason not to.

They know the Palestinians are human locusts.

That would be great. Let all of these Palestinian Muslims into our country. I hope many of them move right next to you rednecks and start playing Arabic music really loud and doing this:

You'll love it.​

You're nuts.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Socialism and its nasty brother Communism have had their chance to replace capitalism and failed dramatically often with a tragic loss of innocent life.

HOW MANY DID​

COMMUNIST REGIMES MURDER?*​

By R.J. Rummel​

MURDER BY COMMUNISM

snip

Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked. But there is a larger lesson to be learned from this horrendous sacrifice to one ideology. That is that no one can be trusted with power. The more power the center has to impose the beliefs of an ideological or religious elite or impose the whims of a dictator, the more likely human lives are to be sacrificed. This is but one reason, but perhaps the most important one, for fostering liberal democracy.

Let’s look at life in Venezuela, the nation Bernie Sanders used as a positive example for socialism.

Venezuela crisis in brief

Millions of Venezuelans have left their home country amid a continuing political and economic crisis.

www.bbc.com

What It's Like Living In Venezuela As It Endures One Of The Largest Economic Disasters Ever

Beginning in summer 2018, reports of the Venezuelan economic crisis dominated news headlines. The collapse of this South American country started in 2014 when the price of oil plummeted. As the BBC explains, Venezuela boasts massive oil reserves. But because of Venezuela's oil surplus, the...

www.ranker.com

Reports are that Venezuela is giving Up socialism.

Venezuela is quietly quitting socialism​

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/18/americas/venezuela-death-of-socialism-intl/index.html

Of course many other nations have tried and rejected socialism.

Three Nations That Tried Socialism and Rejected It

Socialists are fond of saying that socialism has never failed because it has never been tried. But in truth, socialism has failed in every country in which it has been tried, from the Soviet Union beginning a century ago to three modern countries that tried but ultimately rejected...

www.heritage.org

Some nations have moved from socialism to “cuddly capitalism“ which may be where our nation is headed.

Scandinavian 'Socialism': The Truth of the Nordic Model

Global media (especially in the US) likes to portray Norway and Scandinavia as socialist. But "cuddly capitalism" is a much more accurate term. Let's take a look at the truth of the Nordic model. Depending

www.lifeinnorway.net

We definitely will face change as we replace hamburger flippers with robots and many well educated white collar jobs with AI. I feel cuddly capitalism may be the solution. As I have often said we do live in interesting times which is rumored to be a Chinese curse.

View attachment 859790

First, we should define our terms. Communism according to Karl Marx is:

A stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money.​

"Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more authoritarian vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a socialist state, followed by the withering away of the state.[10] As one of the main ideologies on the political spectrum, communism is placed on the left-wing alongside socialism, and communist parties and movements have been described as radical left or far-left.[11][12][note 1] "

Source:

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is the primitive communism, of our ancestors:

and there is the high communism of the future.

​

Socialism is the process that leads to communism. It's the transition from a market-based, for-profit, privately owned, wage-labor-dependent, non-democratic mode of production to a marketless, non-profit, publicly-owned, mostly automated, democratic system of production.

Your claim that since communism hasn't replaced capitalism yet, it won't in the future, is quite naive and illogical. It took hundreds of years for the mercantile class to replace the monarchs and feudal aristocracy, with its capitalist-born republicanism. The monarchists or defenders of the "divine right" of kings, sounded like you in the 1500s, and 1700s, with their jeering objections and flippant dismissal of the prospect of merchants becoming the new lords of society, taking the reins of power away from the kings and nobles.

The wealthy merchants didn't become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century until technology permitted them to transform production from the feudal manor and craftsman's workshop to the factory.

Why do you demand that if communism is the successor of capitalism, it must replace its predecessor overnight or in a few decades? That's not how humanity adopts a new system of production, it does it in stages and through a long process which can take centuries. We're now gradually but surely moving into the socialist age due to advanced, intelligent automation which replaces wage-labor. Allow me to provide you with a simple schema of how capitalism is replaced by socialism and eventually communism.

No Wage-Labor (or not enough jobs) = No Paying Consumers (Not enough customers) = No Market (Not a large enough market worth investing in) = No Capitalism (Society is forced by necessity to adopt a marketless, non-profit mode of production, a.k.a. "socialism" or communism in its final stage.).

Through the advancement of intelligent automation, socialism replaces capitalism, and eventually high-tech democratic communism becomes the final mode of human production and social order. As technology further advances the individual consumer acquires more control over the production of the goods and services that he or she consumers and uses, leading to all human interactions and relationships being 100% voluntary and free of coercian. Technology leads to both communism and freedom from the need for a state apparatus, as we have today. The state withers away, becoming obsolete and worthless, and socioeconomic disappeared long before this stage with the collapse of capitalism, along with money as a means of exchange.

We essentially want the same thing as Libertarians, but we disagree on how to get there.

Your rhetoric on Venezuela and other countries that openly identify as having Marxist economies, doesn't factor in the economic sanctions that are imposed by the US and its many threats of war. If you study the history of the nations that openly admitted to have Marxist-Leninist economies they all were brutally attacked by capitalist powers and economically sabotaged through sanctions. One doesn't have the ideological luxury of saying "socialism doesn't work" when capitalist powers are imposing an economic embargo on those countries.

It's quite convenient how American right-wing Republicans will often accuse Democrats of pushing socialism when they stand for universal Medicare, tuition-free college, the right of workers to unionize and defend labor rights..etc, yet continue saying socialism doesn't work. These conservative Republicans forget that in Western Europe all of these political ideas and policies are taken for granted. They exist in most European nations, and hence following the metric of what constitutes a socialist government, we can say Western Europe is socialist. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If American Democrats are socialists for being in favor of Medicare For All, then all of Europe is also socialist.

The fact is that most countries in Europe have socialist economies, they just don't identify their economies as Marxist socialist out of fear of being bullied and perhaps eaten alive by the United States. Socialism, in its early stages, allows markets in the consumer goods sector of the economy hence a socialist country can be what Western academics call a "mixed economy". The major centers of economic power are nationalized and the private sector is permitted to exist and operate within the consumer goods market.

 

[Hector12]

Muslims do not belong in the West.

 

[surada]

We do not need to allow potential terrorists to immigrate into our nation.

We have enough problems with Antifa and BLM demonstrators and their “mostly peaceful” riots where they loot, burn our cities and attack cops.

The Israelis have suffered so they don't have to abide by the laws.

 

[Libby von H]

Progressives call for US to take in some of the expected 1 million Gaza refugees​

Progressives call for US to take in some of the expected 1 million Gaza refugees

“The international community as well as the United States should be prepared to welcome refugees from Palestine,” said New York Rep. Jamaal Bowman.

nypost.com

14 Oct 2923 ~~ By Jon Levine

Experts predict a million refugees might flee the Gaza Strip amid the war between Israel and Hamas, and socialists and far-left lawmakers said America should welcome them.
“Fifty percent of the population in Gaza are children. The international community as well as the United States should be prepared to welcome refugees from Palestine while being very careful to vet and not allow members of Hamas,” said Rep. Jamaal Bowman, a New York member of the Socialist-Democratic “Squad” who remains under investigation for pulling a fire alarm in the House Cannon Office Building earlier this month.
But Republicans have already slammed the door shut on the issue.
Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Rick Scott (R-Fla.) said they would oppose Palestinian resettlement efforts here.
“The U.S. is the most generous nation in the world, but we are in no position to accept additional refugees, especially from a region with as high a risk of terrorism, given our nation’s inability to secure our own border or vet those who are already here,” Rubio told The Post.
~Snip~
The United States took in 25,465 refugees from around the world in 2022, a 123% increase from 2021, according to State Department records.
Approximately 170,000 Palestinians live in the United States, according to census data.


Commentary:
This kind of insanity is what Democrat Socialists are all about. This is the essence of today’s Democrat Socialist of America Party.
Brought to us by the same Democrat DSA “Progressive” mentality demanding defunding of police throughout America, releasing felons and murderers without bail in Blue Plantation Cities would somehow improve public safety.
“Progressives” are intellectual troglodytes and an imminent threat to all Americans.
Surely Alex Soros and the Open Society Foundation have already distributed the funds to get this done. bribing the right officials to funding the right NGOs that will do it in secrecy.
The actions and stated positions of Jamaal Bowman are indistinguishable from someone who is actively working to destabilize and destroy the United States. Its time to call him and the rest of the "Squad" out for their perfidy and commit to defeat them all in the next election.
Progressives must first clean up the mess they made with the 7 million people they let in the country! Figure out how to ensure safety and civility of taxpayers. Deport accordingly. Now is not the best time to be asking for another handout of hard earned tax dollars, take in Palestinian terrorists.
We don't need to fill the rolls nor recruits for BLM and ANTIFA so they can turn all American cities into Gaza. Why do you think not one Arab nation will take in the Palestinian wolves?

Wow, the resurgence of the Jimmy Carter doctrine.

Guess we didn't have enough rapists and killers in Miama.

" During the Carter and Clinton administrations, migration was weaponized by Havana to leverage concessions. During the 1980 Mariel Boatlift, Fidel Castro personally chose rapists, murderers and mental patients to seed the exodus, smearing the Cuban diaspora and causing a deadly crime wave in the United States."

UNTIL WE MAKE CITIZENS (or not ) OF THE TIDAL WAVE COMING ACROSS THE SOUTHERN BORDER, THIS IS A DESPICABLE IDEA

 

[Batcat]

The Israelis have suffered so they don't have to abide by the laws.

I will agree the Israelis have suffered. If they are granted the right to not abide by any law they may commit autocracies. That would be pushing the limit way too far in my opinion.

For example, it would not be right for the Israeli military to rape Palestinian girls and women and then kill them, although that is what the Hamas terrorists did to women in their terrorist attack on the villages.

Israel releases horrific eyewitness account of rape carried out by Hamas

Israel police released horrific eyewitness testimony of a gang rape and murder by Hamas terrorists at the music festival.

forward.com

 

[Hector12]

The Israelis have suffered so they don't have to abide by the laws.

What laws? The destruction of Hamas is consistent with the laws of Israel and the Law of Moses.

 

[Batcat]

First, we should define our terms. Communism according to Karl Marx is:

A stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money.​

"Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]

Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more authoritarian vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a socialist state, followed by the withering away of the state.[10] As one of the main ideologies on the political spectrum, communism is placed on the left-wing alongside socialism, and communist parties and movements have been described as radical left or far-left.[11][12][note 1] "

Source:

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is the primitive communism, of our ancestors:

View attachment 859802

View attachment 859803

View attachment 859804

View attachment 859805

View attachment 859806​

and there is the high communism of the future.

View attachment 859807

View attachment 859808

View attachment 859809


View attachment 859810

View attachment 859811


View attachment 859813

​

Socialism is the process that leads to communism. It's the transition from a market-based, for-profit, privately owned, wage-labor-dependent, non-democratic mode of production to a marketless, non-profit, publicly-owned, mostly automated, democratic system of production.

Your claim that since communism hasn't replaced capitalism yet, it won't in the future, is quite naive and illogical. It took hundreds of years for the mercantile class to replace the monarchs and feudal aristocracy, with its capitalist-born republicanism. The monarchists or defenders of the "divine right" of kings, sounded like you in the 1500s, and 1700s, with their jeering objections and flippant dismissal of the prospect of merchants becoming the new lords of society, taking the reins of power away from the kings and nobles.

The wealthy merchants didn't become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century until technology permitted them to transform production from the feudal manor and craftsman's workshop to the factory.

Why do you demand that if communism is the successor of capitalism, it must replace its predecessor overnight or in a few decades? That's not how humanity adopts a new system of production, it does it in stages and through a long process which can take centuries. We're now gradually but surely moving into the socialist age due to advanced, intelligent automation which replaces wage-labor. Allow me to provide you with a simple schema of how capitalism is replaced by socialism and eventually communism.

No Wage-Labor (or not enough jobs) = No Paying Consumers (Not enough customers) = No Market (Not a large enough market worth investing in) = No Capitalism (Society is forced by necessity to adopt a marketless, non-profit mode of production, a.k.a. "socialism" or communism in its final stage.).

Through the advancement of intelligent automation, socialism replaces capitalism, and eventually high-tech democratic communism becomes the final mode of human production and social order. As technology further advances the individual consumer acquires more control over the production of the goods and services that he or she consumers and uses, leading to all human interactions and relationships being 100% voluntary and free of coercian. Technology leads to both communism and freedom from the need for a state apparatus, as we have today. The state withers away, becoming obsolete and worthless, and socioeconomic disappeared long before this stage with the collapse of capitalism, along with money as a means of exchange.

We essentially want the same thing as Libertarians, but we disagree on how to get there.

Your rhetoric on Venezuela and other countries that openly identify as having Marxist economies, doesn't factor in the economic sanctions that are imposed by the US and its many threats of war. If you study the history of the nations that openly admitted to have Marxist-Leninist economies they all were brutally attacked by capitalist powers and economically sabotaged through sanctions. One doesn't have the ideological luxury of saying "socialism doesn't work" when capitalist powers are imposing an economic embargo on those countries.

It's quite convenient how American right-wing Republicans will often accuse Democrats of pushing socialism when they stand for universal Medicare, tuition-free college, the right of workers to unionize and defend labor rights..etc, yet continue saying socialism doesn't work. These conservative Republicans forget that in Western Europe all of these political ideas and policies are taken for granted. They exist in most European nations, and hence following the metric of what constitutes a socialist government, we can say Western Europe is socialist. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If American Democrats are socialists for being in favor of Medicare For All, then all of Europe is also socialist.

The fact is that most countries in Europe have socialist economies, they just don't identify their economies as Marxist socialist out of fear of being bullied and perhaps eaten alive by the United States. Socialism, in its early stages, allows markets in the consumer goods sector of the economy hence a socialist country can be what Western academics call a "mixed economy". The major centers of economic power are nationalized and the private sector is permitted to exist and operate within the consumer goods market.

It does seem the younger people today are walking behind the Pied Piper of socialism and communism in a dreamy state of euphoria looking forward to living in a socialist worker’s paradise.

They have been brainwashed by a liberal educational system which has taught them what to think and not how to think.

Eventually all the old timers like myself will die off and the younger voters will take over and may ruin the greatest experiment in freedom In world history.

A couple of decades after this nation turns socialist the toilet paper will run out and people will be standing in long lines trying to find their daily needs which are so readily available today.There will not be many fat people as food will be too expensive and hard to find. America’s biggest problem will not be obesity but instead being under nourished.

Freedom of speech will be limited to speech that does not make the socialist government look bad. People who cause problems will be “disappeared” and never be heard from again.

Of course firearms will be outlawed. The Venezuelans regret giving up their firearms.

Gun Control Preceded the Tyranny in Venezuela

When the rubber meets the road, a disarmed populace has no chance against a well-armed Leviathan.

fee.org

Here are some links discussing why socialism always fails, You of course will disagree with them.

Why Socialism Fails

Despite noble goals of equality and fairness, socialism consistently fails.

www.psychologytoday.com

Why Socialism Failed | Mark J. Perry

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government...

fee.org

Can Socialism Work in America?

Capitalism has its shortcomings but implementing pure socialism would prove difficult as it would be a complete overhaul of the social and economic system.

www.investopedia.com

I’ll probably be six feet under when socialism finally takes over this nation (if it ever does). You might be around to see how wrong you were. Unfortunately so will my grandchildren and my great grandchildren.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Muslims do not belong in the West.

View attachment 859825

Muslims don't belong to the West so that somehow justifies the Zionist Jews committing genocide and ethnic cleansing? You're quite confused.

 

[Hector12]

Muslims don't belong to the West so that somehow justifies the Zionist Jews committing genocide and ethnic cleansing? You're quite confused.

The Jews belong there. The Palestinians do not. The land should have been ethnically cleansed right after Israel's victory in the 1967 Six Day War.

 

[TruthNotBS]

It does seem the younger people today are walking behind the Pied Piper of socialism and communism in a dreamy state of euphoria looking forward to living in a socialist worker’s paradise.

They have been brainwashed by a liberal educational system which has taught them what to think and not how to think.

Eventually all the old timers like myself will die off and the younger voters will take over and may ruin the greatest experiment in freedom In world history.

A couple of decades after this nation turns socialist the toilet paper will run out and people will be standing in long lines trying to find their daily needs which are so readily available today.There will not be many fat people as food will be too expensive and hard to find. America’s biggest problem will not be obesity but instead being under nourished.

Freedom of speech will be limited to speech that does not make the socialist government look bad. People who cause problems will be “disappeared” and never be heard from again.

Of course firearms will be outlawed. The Venezuelans regret giving up their firearms.

Gun Control Preceded the Tyranny in Venezuela

When the rubber meets the road, a disarmed populace has no chance against a well-armed Leviathan.

fee.org

Here are some links discussing why socialism always fails, You of course will disagree with them.

Why Socialism Fails

Despite noble goals of equality and fairness, socialism consistently fails.

www.psychologytoday.com

Why Socialism Failed | Mark J. Perry

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government...

fee.org

Can Socialism Work in America?

Capitalism has its shortcomings but implementing pure socialism would prove difficult as it would be a complete overhaul of the social and economic system.

www.investopedia.com

I’ll probably be six feet under when socialism finally takes over this nation (if it ever does). You might be around to see how wrong you were. Unfortunately so will my grandchildren and my great grandchildren.

Notice how Batcat essentially ignored all of the points I made in my previous post in response to his rhetoric. Keep that in mind when you read his polemic against socialism/communism. He writes:

It does seem the younger people today are walking behind the Pied Piper of socialism and communism in a dreamy state....

Ironically it's working class people like him who are brainwashed by their capitalist masters who are following the "Pied Piper" of capitalism, in a "dreamy state", against their own self-interest. As I explained in my previous post, which he conveniently ignored, socialism is proving to be a necessity due to advanced, intelligent automation eliminating jobs.

of euphoria looking forward to living in a socialist worker’s paradise.

This is a very old polemic against socialists which asserts that they're naive utopians which ironically it's the defenders of capitalism who naively claim that capitalism is eternal, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Socialists aren't utopian we're scientific, and our theory and practices are based on reality, rather than capitalist fantasies. We don't claim democracy (i.e. rule of the people) is perfect, but we do believe it's better than plutocracy (rule of the rich and self-entitled).

They have been brainwashed by a liberal educational system which has taught them what to think and not how to think.

Unfortunately, our Public Schools don't teach children socialist ideals but rather capitalist consumerism and being complicit with the status quo of capitalism. All of this insanity with LGBTQA+ which you conservatives hate is due to capitalism not socialism:

​

It's incredibly lucrative for capitalists in the medical industry to get people hooked on hormones when they're young and subject them to a lifetime of expensive treatments and surgeries. It's also profitable to turn men into metrosexuals who buy five different shampoos and 4 different moisturizer creams. Retail's profits have always relied on women not men, due to women's shopping habits. Masculine men are utilitarian in their shopping, they might buy two pairs of black boots or one pair might be black and the other dark brown. Women will buy the black boots with the pink, red and purple boots and a matching purse and..etc. The more effeminate the man the more his shopping patterns resemble that of a woman's.

Eventually, all the old timers like myself will die off and the younger voters will take over....

Will take over and evolution and progress will move forward without your ilk, undermining it. Good riddance.

and may ruin the greatest experiment in freedom In world history.

You simple-minded dinosaurs brainwashed by anti-socialist, Cold War capitalist propaganda (McCarthyism, the "red scare"), are the ones undermining everyone's freedom and well-being, not socialists.

A couple of decades after this nation turns socialist the toilet paper will run out and people will be standing in long lines trying to find their daily needs which are so readily available today.

The only time there were long lines in Soviet Russia was during its revolution in the early 1920s (when they were invaded by the United States, UK, France and 10 other countries), in a famine in the early 30s in Ukraine (before socialism, under capitalism, Ukraine had devastating famines every couple of years), WW2 (when they were invaded by four million Germans) and in the 1980s under capitalist market reform (Perestroika and Glasnost). Other than that, Soviet Citizens lived quite well, as documented in this documentary:

​

That's why most Russian people your age (the older folks), in general, have good memories of the USSR:

This didn't exist in the Soviet Union:

​

There will not be many fat people as food will be too expensive and hard to find. America’s biggest problem will not be obesity but instead being under nourished.

That's what will happen under capitalism, when jobs are replaced by advanced automation and people like you refuse to come to terms with the fact that production must be owned by the people, collectively, rather than by private for-profit corporations. Capitalism in the not-too-distant future will make everyone homeless due to the loss of jobs, if it's not replaced by socialism. Even billionaires are recognizing this, hence their effort to convince the US government to pay everyone a UBI or "Universal Basic Income".

They want to save capitalism, by the government giving everyone "free money", while the wealthy elites maintain their power and control over production. That's not socialism, that's techno-feudalism and dystopia. You accuse me of being a "Utopian" (I'm not), buy you are a dystopian.

Freedom of speech will be limited to speech that does not make the socialist government look bad. People who cause problems will be “disappeared” and never be heard from again.

He's regurgitating the capitalist Cold War propaganda he was taught as a child. We don't have much free speech now under capitalism. Say anything considered controversial or "politically incorrect" and you get canceled and perhaps even arrested for "supporting terrorism". Right-wingers are trying to make protests against Israel's genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza illegal. They've labeled anyone who protests against Israel's apartheid state a terrorist collaborator and supporter of Hamas. Right now in over 20 states in our country, if you have a business and you try to get a contract from your local or state government, you'll have to sign a document stating you're against boycotting Israel. I'm not making this shit up.

You people talk about "freedom" , but where is the freedom when you don't have affordable housing, you don't have medical coverage, food, and fuel prices are through the roof, public transit in your city sucks, and you're not making enough to pay your bills? Where is the "freedom"? Batcat, is on Medicare, Social Security and enjoys other benefits and yet has the gall to crap on socialism. If it weren't for socialists you wouldn't have Medicare or Social Security. We're the ones who pushed the US government into creating those programs in the 1930s and later in the 1960s.

We were the ones who organized the labor unions and protected the rights of workers. The eight-hour work day and forty-hour work week, pensions, unemployment insurance, sick leave, all of that is thanks to American socialist activism. You right-wingers shit on workers. You serve the interests of the wealthy elites at the expense of working-class families. Where is your "freedom" without socialism? You're a bunch of hypocrites serving the rich at the expense of the poor and working class. You undermine democracy (the rule of the people) and place all of the power in the hands of the rich.

Of course firearms will be outlawed. The Venezuelans regret giving up their firearms.

Read what Karl Marx wrote about firearms and the working class:

" Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” Karl Marx

Actual Marxists, who remain true to what he wrote, are pro-Second Amendment. I'm for arming the people, not disarming them. I'm an American socialist, not a Russian or Chinese socialist. Most of the countries that prohibit their citizens from owning firearms have capitalist economies. So a capitalist-run society is just as likely, if not more so, to force its citizens to give up their firearms than a socialist one (It should be noted that in China today, citizens can get a hunting permit and own a firearm). In the UK and Australia, it's illegal for civilians to own firearms.

Those who follow what Marx taught are for the working class to be armed to the teeth. American communists of my organization are staunch defenders of the Second Amendment.

Gun Control Preceded the Tyranny in Venezuela | José Niño When the rubber meets the road, a disarmed populace has no chance against a well-armed Leviathan.​

fee.org

American communists like myself aren't Venezuelans, so your point is moot. I'm an American communist, and I love my guns just as much as you love yours.

Here are some links discussing why socialism always fails, You of course will disagree with them. I’ll probably be six feet under when socialism finally takes over this nation (if it ever does). You might be around to see how wrong you were. Unfortunately so will my grandchildren and my great grandchildren.

Socialism actually always works, that's why the United States is always imposing economic sanctions upon socialist economies and threatening them with war. There are right now many socialist economies in Western Europe and throughout the world, the only reason they're allowed to exist is because they serve the interests of the United States whenever it goes to war or decides to impose sanctions on a country that doesn't follow its rules. Any country that outwardly, identifies itself as socialist or Marxist is immediately beaten down by the United States.

The US currently controls the world's reserve currency and the international banking cartel. So if you're on the bad side of the US Empire, you're going to get chewed up economically and perhaps physically as well if Washington decides to bomb and invade you. Saying that socialism never works under such circumstances amounts to saying nothing. You don't have the ideological luxury to appeal to such arguments when the US Empire is imposing economic embargoes on socialist economies. If socialism doesn't work, then why is the capitalist-run American Empire so adamant in imposing austerities and war on socialists? Wake up.

As I mentioned earlier on this post and in previous posts, without socialism the modern economy which relies on advanced automation, can't survive. Advanced, intelligent automation demands socialism to survive. Without it the economy and society in general crumbles.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The Jews belong there. The Palestinians do not. The land should have been ethnically cleansed right after Israel's victory in the 1967 Six Day War.

How do you figure that a bunch of European Ashkenazi Jews from Poland, Germany, and Russia have more of a right to the Holy Land than the people who never left that land? The Palestinians are actually Middle Easterners from the Holy Land, according to all genetic tests, even the ones conducted in Israel by Israeli geneticists from Hebrew University. If anyone is likely to descend from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, it's the Palestinians, not Jews from Poland. So you're quite confused. Estas muy confundido.

 

[Batcat]

How do you figure that a bunch of European Ashkenazi Jews from Poland, Germany, and Russia have more of a right to the Holy Land than the people who never left that land? The Palestinians are actually Middle Easterners from the Holy Land, according to all genetic tests, even the ones conducted in Israel by Israeli geneticists from Hebrew University. If anyone is likely to descend from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, it's the Palestinians, not Jews from Poland. So you're quite confused. Estas muy confundido.

Perhaps I should call you the Pied Piper of communism. Your tune on your flute sounds wonderful and attractive and I’m sure you will deceive many people with your propaganda.

Now you blame the fact that socialism always fails on the United States. You say …

If socialism doesn't work, then why is the capitalist-run American Empire so adamant in imposing austerities and war on socialists?

Socialism didn’t work in the Nordic nations. The United States did not impose austerities or start any wars with those nations. Nor did the United States interfere with socialism in Great Britain.

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

foreignpolicy.com

Socialism ruined post-war Britain — and could do the same in the US

Progressive ideas put forth by Sanders and Warren come straight from the socialist playbook that ravaged post-war Britain.

thehill.com

************

We have both posted our propaganda on the subject and neither of us is likely to change our minds. In my opinion capitalism is not perfect but is better then any other system with the exception of a benevolent dictatorship which are historically few and far between.

The Top Benevolent and Malevolent Dictators From History

“Dictator” and “tyrant” are dirty words today, and rightly so. Millennia ago, however, tyrants were wildly popular in Ancient Greece, and a dictator was a highly respected position in the Roman Republic. Good tyrants or benevolent dictators were not just propagandistic descriptions but actually...

historycollection.com

To be fair our system of government today is more of an oligarchy than a constitutional republic. That is helping your effort to convert the United States to a socialist nation.

It’s Official: America Is an Oligarchy

The Congressional Budget Office confirms that the rich exponentially increased their share of America’s wealth over the past 30 years.

www.thenation.com

Change is necessary and will come eventually if we have fair elections. If one Party can rig the elections all bets are off but chances are the nation will split apart.

I hope to see a change to “cuddly capitalism” which is capitalism with benefits. We have a good start on that right now.

Perhaps socialism could work if we let Artificial Intelligence take over running the nation and its industries. People controlling all production in socialism is the problem because people are not as smart as they think they are and people are greedy.

It’s Official: America Is an Oligarchy

The Congressional Budget Office confirms that the rich exponentially increased their share of America’s wealth over the past 30 years.

www.thenation.com

 

[TruthNotBS]

Perhaps I should call you the Pied Piper of communism. Your tune on your flute sounds wonderful and attractive and I’m sure you will deceive many people with your propaganda.

Now you blame the fact that socialism always fails on the United States. You say …

If socialism doesn't work, then why is the capitalist-run American Empire so adamant in imposing austerities and war on socialists?

Socialism didn’t work in the Nordic nations. The United States did not impose austerities or start any wars with those nations. Nor did the United States interfere with socialism in Great Britain.

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

foreignpolicy.com

Socialism ruined post-war Britain — and could do the same in the US

Progressive ideas put forth by Sanders and Warren come straight from the socialist playbook that ravaged post-war Britain.

thehill.com

************

We have both posted our propaganda on the subject and neither of us is likely to change our minds. In my opinion capitalism is not perfect but is better then any other system with the exception of a benevolent dictatorship which are historically few and far between.

The Top Benevolent and Malevolent Dictators From History

“Dictator” and “tyrant” are dirty words today, and rightly so. Millennia ago, however, tyrants were wildly popular in Ancient Greece, and a dictator was a highly respected position in the Roman Republic. Good tyrants or benevolent dictators were not just propagandistic descriptions but actually...

historycollection.com

To be fair our system of government today is more of an oligarchy than a constitutional republic. That is helping your effort to convert the United States to a socialist nation.

It’s Official: America Is an Oligarchy

The Congressional Budget Office confirms that the rich exponentially increased their share of America’s wealth over the past 30 years.

www.thenation.com

Change is necessary and will come eventually if we have fair elections. If one Party can rig the elections all bets are off but chances are the nation will split apart.

I hope to see a change to “cuddly capitalism” which is capitalism with benefits. We have a good start on that right now.

Perhaps socialism could work if we let Artificial Intelligence take over running the nation and its industries. People controlling all production in socialism is the problem because people are not as smart as they think they are and people are greedy.

It’s Official: America Is an Oligarchy

The Congressional Budget Office confirms that the rich exponentially increased their share of America’s wealth over the past 30 years.

www.thenation.com

Perhaps I should call you the Pied Piper of communism. Your tune on your flute sounds wonderful and attractive and I’m sure you will deceive many people with your propaganda. Now you blame the fact that socialism always fails on the United States.

Socialism doesn't ALWAYS fail, that's your disingenuous bullshit capitalist propaganda. There are many socialist countries today, that offer their citizens a high standard of living. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the American Democrats are socialists, as you right-wing Republicans are always claiming , or they're not. Are they? Right-wing idiots like you are always accusing the Demcrats of being socialists, even communists, because they want universal healthcare and to protect Medicare and Social Security from GOP jerks that want to defund those programs. Are the Dems communists or not? Is it just GOP bullshit polemics?

If the American Democrats are socialists, then Western Europe is 100% socialist, because the policies that you identify as "socialist" and condemn American Democrats for supporting are taken for granted in Western Europe. Europeans consider universal healthcare, the idea of healthcare as a human right, as an obvious no-brainer and necessary value and government policy. That's just one example of many.
Tuition-free education and vocational training, housing for the poor, the protection of labor unions, a robust social safety net for the working-class, the nationalization of vital, major industries..etc. You identify those policies as "commie", when American politicians support them and yet you fail to recognize that Western Europe considers suck policies as the standard for a modern, civil society.

You keep blabbing that socialism is horrible and never words, yet we see how well it works for most industrialized countries and even developing nations as well.

The fact that if a nation outwardly identifies its economy and politics as socialist, it will be beaten down by the United States is easily confirmed by simply looking at all of the nations that openly identify as socialist or communist. The United States will immediately impose economic sanctions upon such countries and threaten it's national security, with talk about "regime change" and war. If you deny that you're delusional, if not dishonest.

Socialism didn’t work in the Nordic nations. The United States did not impose austerities or start any wars with those nations. Nor did the United States interfere with socialism in Great Britain.

Based upon how Republicans define socialism, Europe is socialist. Socialism allows the private sector to operate within a consumer goods market.

About Sweden's present economy we read:

"Sweden is a competitive open mixed economy. The vast majority of Swedish enterprises are privately owned and market-oriented. There is also a strong welfare state, with public-sector spending accounting up to three-fifths of GDP.[26][27] In 2014, the percent of national wealth owned by the government was 24%.[28]

Source:

Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

HAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine if the American Democrats tried to make the government (the American people) collectively own 24% (a quarter) of the American economy? The GOP right-wingers would have a freaking heart attack! They'd start foaming from the mouth, shouting "COMMUNISTS! COMMUNISTS! COMMIES! COMMIES!". They'd go crazy.

" The average union density was 70% in the years 2011–2014, 69% in 2015-2017 and 68% in 2018 and 2019. "
Source: Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

Mind you, only 10% of American workers are unionized. If the American workforce was as unionized as Sweden's, the Republican right-wingers would be enraged and do everything possible to destroy those labor unions. By every single metric, from the perspective of the American right-wing GOP, Europe is SOCIALIST. It's "COMMIE".

You don't have to wait in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, or Finland, until you're in your mid-60s, to have Medicare or benefits, you have them from the time you're born. All of these policies are considered COMMIE by American Republicans, so your silly attempt to make Europe's economy a free-market, Atlas Shrugged, Milton Friedman capitalist, economy is laughable.

By all standards promoted by the American GOP right-wingers, Europe is COMMIE. The only reason these European countries aren't being brutally sanctioned by the United States is because they serve the interests of the American elites. They toe the line and do what they're told. They're essentially American vassal states. They bend over and take it, whenever America zips down its zipper.

The bottom line is that socialism works. Without it, capitalism can't function. Capitalism gets bailed out by socialism every few years.

 

[Batcat]

Socialism doesn't ALWAYS fail, that's your disingenuous bullshit capitalist propaganda. There are many socialist countries today, that offer their citizens a high standard of living. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the American Democrats are socialists, as you right-wing Republicans are always claiming , or they're not. Are they? Right-wing idiots like you are always accusing the Demcrats of being socialists, even communists, because they want universal healthcare and to protect Medicare and Social Security from GOP jerks that want to defund those programs. Are the Dems communists or not? Is it just GOP bullshit polemics?

If the American Democrats are socialists, then Western Europe is 100% socialist, because the policies that you identify as "socialist" and condemn American Democrats for supporting are taken for granted in Western Europe. Europeans consider universal healthcare, the idea of healthcare as a human right, as an obvious no-brainer and necessary value and government policy. That's just one example of many.
Tuition-free education and vocational training, housing for the poor, the protection of labor unions, a robust social safety net for the working-class, the nationalization of vital, major industries..etc. You identify those policies as "commie", when American politicians support them and yet you fail to recognize that Western Europe considers suck policies as the standard for a modern, civil society.

You keep blabbing that socialism is horrible and never words, yet we see how well it works for most industrialized countries and even developing nations as well.

The fact that if a nation outwardly identifies its economy and politics as socialist, it will be beaten down by the United States is easily confirmed by simply looking at all of the nations that openly identify as socialist or communist. The United States will immediately impose economic sanctions upon such countries and threaten it's national security, with talk about "regime change" and war. If you deny that you're delusional, if not dishonest.



Based upon how Republicans define socialism, Europe is socialist. Socialism allows the private sector to operate within a consumer goods market.

About Sweden's present economy we read:

"Sweden is a competitive open mixed economy. The vast majority of Swedish enterprises are privately owned and market-oriented. There is also a strong welfare state, with public-sector spending accounting up to three-fifths of GDP.[26][27] In 2014, the percent of national wealth owned by the government was 24%.[28]

Source:

Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

HAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine if the American Democrats tried to make the government (the American people) collectively own 24% (a quarter) of the American economy? The GOP right-wingers would have a freaking heart attack! They'd start foaming from the mouth, shouting "COMMUNISTS! COMMUNISTS! COMMIES! COMMIES!". They'd go crazy.

" The average union density was 70% in the years 2011–2014, 69% in 2015-2017 and 68% in 2018 and 2019. "
Source: Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

Mind you, only 10% of American workers are unionized. If the American workforce was as unionized as Sweden's, the Republican right-wingers would be enraged and do everything possible to destroy those labor unions. By every single metric, from the perspective of the American right-wing GOP, Europe is SOCIALIST. It's "COMMIE".

You don't have to wait in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, or Finland, until you're in your mid-60s, to have Medicare or benefits, you have them from the time you're born. All of these policies are considered COMMIE by American Republicans, so your silly attempt to make Europe's economy a free-market, Atlas Shrugged, Milton Friedman capitalist, economy is laughable.

By all standards promoted by the American GOP right-wingers, Europe is COMMIE. The only reason these European countries aren't being brutally sanctioned by the United States is because they serve the interests of the American elites. They toe the line and do what they're told. They're essentially American vassal states. They bend over and take it, whenever America zips down its zipper.

The bottom line is that socialism works. Without it, capitalism can't function. Capitalism gets bailed out by socialism every few years.

You say,

Capitalism gets bailed out by socialism every few years.

Now you are saying the only reason capitalism exists is socialism is so bad that well educated Americans who know how to think don’t want to follow the Pied Piper of socialism. We can agree on that. If socialism was even moderately successful the United States would have tried it by now.

I don’t consider Great Britain or the Nordic Nations to be socialist or communist, let alone the other nations in Europe. however most are nations that tried socialism and rejected it.

At this link you can find a list of nations that have tried socialism and those who are still socialist today.

List of communist and socialist states - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

This next article was informative. It paints a picture of failure and despair at the end of the USSR. .

https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-socialism-collapsed-eastern-europe

snip

Several factors combined to force the Gorbachev leadership to let Eastern Europe go. The first was exhaustion of the capital stock. The capital accumulated over hundreds, indeed thousands, of years has been used up. Through the 1960s and the 1970s there was near unanimity among Western economists that the rate of growth in Soviet‐style economies was not only positive but higher than in Western Europe or the United States. Clearly, a positive rate of growth, over a period of 40 years or so, should produce wealth, but it didn’t. The mistake that was made, and pointed out by a few economists such as G. Warren Nutter, was to measure capital investment, the amount of inputs, not wealth creation. That was a big mistake. It led to what the Hungarian philosopher Michael Polanyi, a great critic of communism, called “conspicuous production”-production for the sake of production. Steel was produced to make a factory to make more steel to make more factories, but the whole process never produced any real consumer goods. It did not translate into an increase in the standard of living. And, indeed, it was often politically motivated.

The industrial proletariat was to be the new universal class, which would subsume all other classes and resolve all previous conflicts among them, according to the Marxian system. So the communists had to create an industrial proletariat, even where there had been almost none. In Romania, for example, during the forced industrialization that followed the Second World War, almost all the horses were killed because, after all, in a modern society no one would need them anymore; everyone would have a tractor. Well, the tractors were never produced, so people began to breed horses in secret. Today horses are the most common means of transportation in the countryside.

Instead of growing, the capital stock of socialist countries has been declining. They’ve been consuming it. Most of the textile mills in eastern Czechoslovakia were built before the First World War. They still operate with the original machinery. In East Germany, many of the buildings seem not to have been painted since 1945. In some cases, no one even painted over the old and faded Nazi slogans on the walls. In the Soviet Union, there are chemical factories built 110 years ago that are still producing the same chemicals in the same way. It is a general principle that under socialism no factory is ever closed.

The capital stock inherited from previous generations has been largely worn out, and there are real declines in the standards of living of many East European countries. Those declines would have taken place sooner had it not been for the enormous amount of Western capital that was pumped in by the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and other international lending institutions and used largely to finance current consumption.

***********’

I feel the only way socialism could work is if Artificial Intelligence ran everything Instead of greedy and corrupt politicians. The problem is that eventually AI would’ve grow tired of dealing with humans and do away with us.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You say,




Now you are saying the only reason capitalism exists is socialism is so bad that well educated Americans who know how to think don’t want to follow the Pied Piper of socialism. We can agree on that. If socialism was even moderately successful the United States would have tried it by now.

I don’t consider Great Britain or the Nordic Nations to be socialist or communist, let alone the other nations in Europe. however most are nations that tried socialism and rejected it.

At this link you can find a list of nations that have tried socialism and those who are still socialist today.

List of communist and socialist states - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

This next article was informative. It paints a picture of failure and despair at the end of the USSR. .

https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-socialism-collapsed-eastern-europe

snip

Several factors combined to force the Gorbachev leadership to let Eastern Europe go. The first was exhaustion of the capital stock. The capital accumulated over hundreds, indeed thousands, of years has been used up. Through the 1960s and the 1970s there was near unanimity among Western economists that the rate of growth in Soviet‐style economies was not only positive but higher than in Western Europe or the United States. Clearly, a positive rate of growth, over a period of 40 years or so, should produce wealth, but it didn’t. The mistake that was made, and pointed out by a few economists such as G. Warren Nutter, was to measure capital investment, the amount of inputs, not wealth creation. That was a big mistake. It led to what the Hungarian philosopher Michael Polanyi, a great critic of communism, called “conspicuous production”-production for the sake of production. Steel was produced to make a factory to make more steel to make more factories, but the whole process never produced any real consumer goods. It did not translate into an increase in the standard of living. And, indeed, it was often politically motivated.

The industrial proletariat was to be the new universal class, which would subsume all other classes and resolve all previous conflicts among them, according to the Marxian system. So the communists had to create an industrial proletariat, even where there had been almost none. In Romania, for example, during the forced industrialization that followed the Second World War, almost all the horses were killed because, after all, in a modern society no one would need them anymore; everyone would have a tractor. Well, the tractors were never produced, so people began to breed horses in secret. Today horses are the most common means of transportation in the countryside.

Instead of growing, the capital stock of socialist countries has been declining. They’ve been consuming it. Most of the textile mills in eastern Czechoslovakia were built before the First World War. They still operate with the original machinery. In East Germany, many of the buildings seem not to have been painted since 1945. In some cases, no one even painted over the old and faded Nazi slogans on the walls. In the Soviet Union, there are chemical factories built 110 years ago that are still producing the same chemicals in the same way. It is a general principle that under socialism no factory is ever closed.

The capital stock inherited from previous generations has been largely worn out, and there are real declines in the standards of living of many East European countries. Those declines would have taken place sooner had it not been for the enormous amount of Western capital that was pumped in by the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and other international lending institutions and used largely to finance current consumption.

***********’

I feel the only way socialism could work is if Artificial Intelligence ran everything Instead of greedy and corrupt politicians. The problem is that eventually AI would’ve grow tired of dealing with humans and do away with us.

Ignore all of the points I made and keep repeating the same misconceptions and lies about socialism. You might ignore the points I made but others won't.

Capitalism gets bailed out every few years by the government with public funds. This is a fact. More, without social services, the inequality between capitalists and their workers would be so pronounced that it would cause serious social unrest and eventually lead to the collapse of the economy and civil war. Socialism allows capitalism to function.

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate markets, by reducing the need for wage labor. The ruling elite know this and are now promoting the idea of "Universal Basic Income", to mitigate the unemployment "tech-apocalypse", which can occur as early as within the next ten years. High-tech production technology will eliminate tens of millions of jobs and when that happens, society is forced by necessity to adopt a non-profit system of production, a.k.a. Socialism. The Zoomers are perhaps the most socialist generation in American history. They're getting prepared for the transition, despite old brainwashed, Cold War dinosaurs like yourself, who have their heads in the sand like ostriches.

 

[Batcat]

Socialism doesn't ALWAYS fail, that's your disingenuous bullshit capitalist propaganda. There are many socialist countries today, that offer their citizens a high standard of living. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the American Democrats are socialists, as you right-wing Republicans are always claiming , or they're not. Are they? Right-wing idiots like you are always accusing the Demcrats of being socialists, even communists, because they want universal healthcare and to protect Medicare and Social Security from GOP jerks that want to defund those programs. Are the Dems communists or not? Is it just GOP bullshit polemics?

If the American Democrats are socialists, then Western Europe is 100% socialist, because the policies that you identify as "socialist" and condemn American Democrats for supporting are taken for granted in Western Europe. Europeans consider universal healthcare, the idea of healthcare as a human right, as an obvious no-brainer and necessary value and government policy. That's just one example of many.
Tuition-free education and vocational training, housing for the poor, the protection of labor unions, a robust social safety net for the working-class, the nationalization of vital, major industries..etc. You identify those policies as "commie", when American politicians support them and yet you fail to recognize that Western Europe considers suck policies as the standard for a modern, civil society.

You keep blabbing that socialism is horrible and never words, yet we see how well it works for most industrialized countries and even developing nations as well.

The fact that if a nation outwardly identifies its economy and politics as socialist, it will be beaten down by the United States is easily confirmed by simply looking at all of the nations that openly identify as socialist or communist. The United States will immediately impose economic sanctions upon such countries and threaten it's national security, with talk about "regime change" and war. If you deny that you're delusional, if not dishonest.



Based upon how Republicans define socialism, Europe is socialist. Socialism allows the private sector to operate within a consumer goods market.

About Sweden's present economy we read:

"Sweden is a competitive open mixed economy. The vast majority of Swedish enterprises are privately owned and market-oriented. There is also a strong welfare state, with public-sector spending accounting up to three-fifths of GDP.[26][27] In 2014, the percent of national wealth owned by the government was 24%.[28]

Source:

Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

HAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine if the American Democrats tried to make the government (the American people) collectively own 24% (a quarter) of the American economy? The GOP right-wingers would have a freaking heart attack! They'd start foaming from the mouth, shouting "COMMUNISTS! COMMUNISTS! COMMIES! COMMIES!". They'd go crazy.

" The average union density was 70% in the years 2011–2014, 69% in 2015-2017 and 68% in 2018 and 2019. "
Source: Economy of Sweden - Wikipedia

Mind you, only 10% of American workers are unionized. If the American workforce was as unionized as Sweden's, the Republican right-wingers would be enraged and do everything possible to destroy those labor unions. By every single metric, from the perspective of the American right-wing GOP, Europe is SOCIALIST. It's "COMMIE".

You don't have to wait in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, or Finland, until you're in your mid-60s, to have Medicare or benefits, you have them from the time you're born. All of these policies are considered COMMIE by American Republicans, so your silly attempt to make Europe's economy a free-market, Atlas Shrugged, Milton Friedman capitalist, economy is laughable.

By all standards promoted by the American GOP right-wingers, Europe is COMMIE. The only reason these European countries aren't being brutally sanctioned by the United States is because they serve the interests of the American elites. They toe the line and do what they're told. They're essentially American vassal states. They bend over and take it, whenever America zips down its zipper.

The bottom line is that socialism works. Without it, capitalism can't function. Capitalism gets bailed out by socialism every few years.

If socialism works so, well, why didn’t the Soviet Union beat us to the moon and why didn’ it win the Cold War?

I know a lot of Republicans and none I know considers Europe to be Communist.

What would happen if American tried socialism?

You Can See America's Future Under Socialism, And It Isn't Pretty

A new government report has bad news for socialists. Socialist policies lead to poverty, poor health, and instability. So why do Democrats want that here?

www.investors.com

Communism Survivor Warns What Will Happen if Americans Take Freedom for Granted | Jon Miltimore

“If you hear my voice today, this is it,” she said. “Never, never surrender your Second Amendment. Because once you do, they’ll bury you alive.”

fee.org

Pro and Con: Socialism in the United States

Some argue that the U.S. should actively move toward socialism to spur social progress and greater equity, while others demand that America must prevent this by any and all means necessary.

www.britannica.com