Professor spends $1,000 to challenge $45 speeding ticket

[-Cp]

Associated Press
Jul. 11, 2005 08:20 AM

LAWRENCE, Kan. - Zamir Bavel is spending a lot of money to fight a $45 speeding ticket.

The University of Kansas computer science professor says there's a principle at stake. So far, he's dropped about a thousand bucks contesting the ticket.

He objects to the fact that officers in Lawrence and Larned aren't required to take any special classes in operating the radar speed guns. Such classes are recommended by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration but are not required by law.

Bavel contends the speed gun that nabbed him may not have been operated correctly. His trial in district court is scheduled to continue today. He says he'll take his speeding case all the way to the Kansas Supreme Court if necessary.


http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0711radartraining-ON.html

 

[archangel]

Associated Press
Jul. 11, 2005 08:20 AM

LAWRENCE, Kan. - Zamir Bavel is spending a lot of money to fight a $45 speeding ticket.

The University of Kansas computer science professor says there's a principle at stake. So far, he's dropped about a thousand bucks contesting the ticket.

He objects to the fact that officers in Lawrence and Larned aren't required to take any special classes in operating the radar speed guns. Such classes are recommended by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration but are not required by law.

Bavel contends the speed gun that nabbed him may not have been operated correctly. His trial in district court is scheduled to continue today. He says he'll take his speeding case all the way to the Kansas Supreme Court if necessary.


http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0711radartraining-ON.html

He must have failed economics 101...it is nice to state your point on principle...but then again there is a point when economics comes into play...if it were a life/death situation I would agree...however it was a traffic ticket for Gods sake...if ya lose on the initial hearing...give it a rest and go on with your life...geez!

 

[Nienna]

Maybe he stands to be dropped from his insurance for too many tickets?

 

[Mr. P]

Associated Press
Jul. 11, 2005 08:20 AM

....
He objects to the fact that officers in Lawrence and Larned aren't required to take any special classes in operating the radar speed guns. Such classes are recommended by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration but are not required by law.

...

We all know it takes years of intense training to operate a point an click radar speed gun!
And those nasty sneaky cops hide under bridges an behind stuff to catch ya speeding too!
There should be a law against the guys enforcing the law!! It just ain't "FAIR"!

Bavel contends the speed gun that nabbed him may not have been operated correctly.

LMAO!!!I wonder where he got his training?

 

[archangel]

Maybe he stands to be dropped from his insurance for too many tickets?

Maybe he should rethink his driving habits...if ya play ya must pay...enough said!

 

[Yurt]

To be fair, this guy (and his lawyer, assuming he has one) has not researched the early 90s case about the guy from Palm Springs that spent about 250K on his ticket (he won, who cares, 250K to him is like a quarter to us). Nonetheless, the ruling was the radars are not scientifically accurate, enough so to give a ticket.

This guy was just trying to make a point. He failed. In that district. Give another districts ruling and then you to "appellate." And so forth.


Btw, the radars "may" be acceptable "scientific" evidence, they are still only that: acceptable. Not conclusive.

 

[archangel]

To be fair, this guy (and his lawyer, assuming he has one) has not researched the early 90s case about the guy from Palm Springs that spent about 250K on his ticket (he won, who cares, 250K to him is like a quarter to us). Nonetheless, the ruling was the radars are not scientifically accurate, enough so to give a ticket.

This guy was just trying to make a point. He failed. In that district. Give another districts ruling and then you to "appellate." And so forth.


Btw, the radars "may" be acceptable "scientific" evidence, they are still only that: acceptable. Not conclusive.

however if it cost one $250.000.00 to beat a $45.00 ticket whats the point...

I am all for principle when it fits the punishment...however if one slows down....then the point becomes a moot one....case solved!

 

[GotZoom]

I don't care how much money I have, $250,000.00 compared to $45.00?

Please.

No Brainer.

 

[insein]

If i had the cash, i would fight it on the grounds that speeding tickets are unconstituional. Laws are supposed to be made to PROTECT the people. Speeding hasnt been conclusively proven to cause anymore accidents then regular driving does. We have accidents everyday and most are from bad driving. Changing lanes too fast, stopping too sudden, driving TOO SLOW in faster lanes, etc. Speeding in and of itself does not cause accidents.

The real reason for speeding tickets is too increase revenue for local governments. Why do you think cops are given "quotas" on ticket numbers for the month? They have to meet these quotas since it is a main source of revenue for a number of local municipalities. When brought to court, the officer either pleads you down to no-points and pay the fine or if they feel like messing with you, go through with the hearing. The judge understands the whole revenue thing and rarely overturns a ticket knowing that the money goes into his/her paycheck. The problem is that there are TOO MANY COPS!

Sure thats a terrible thing to say. "We always need more cops." At least thats what local and state governments always tell us. We need more cops. To do what? Hand out more tickets? The only areas that need more cops are urban areas. Suburbs and rural areas DO NOT NEED more cops. That just increases the local budget by another $60k-90k a year per cop therefore leading to more mandatory traffic tickets. ITs a nice scam that the lawabiding citizens get screwed on. We pay local taxes, state taxes, property taxes and then we have to pay these tickets for going 35 in a 25. F'd in everyway are we.

 

[Shattered]

Oh, good grief.. The cops don't typically pull you over unless you're doing 10 miles or more over the speed limit.. If you're driving fast enough to get pulled over, suck it up and pay the ticket.

-The Voice Of Experience.

 

[GotZoom]

If i had the cash, i would fight it on the grounds that speeding tickets are unconstituional. Laws are supposed to be made to PROTECT the people. Speeding hasnt been conclusively proven to cause anymore accidents then regular driving does. We have accidents everyday and most are from bad driving. Changing lanes too fast, stopping too sudden, driving TOO SLOW in faster lanes, etc. Speeding in and of itself does not cause accidents.

The real reason for speeding tickets is too increase revenue for local governments. Why do you think cops are given "quotas" on ticket numbers for the month? They have to meet these quotas since it is a main source of revenue for a number of local municipalities. When brought to court, the officer either pleads you down to no-points and pay the fine or if they feel like messing with you, go through with the hearing. The judge understands the whole revenue thing and rarely overturns a ticket knowing that the money goes into his/her paycheck. The problem is that there are TOO MANY COPS!

Sure thats a terrible thing to say. "We always need more cops." At least thats what local and state governments always tell us. We need more cops. To do what? Hand out more tickets? The only areas that need more cops are urban areas. Suburbs and rural areas DO NOT NEED more cops. That just increases the local budget by another $60k-90k a year per cop therefore leading to more mandatory traffic tickets. ITs a nice scam that the lawabiding citizens get screwed on. We pay local taxes, state taxes, property taxes and then we have to pay these tickets for going 35 in a 25. F'd in everyway are we.

So, instead of fighting the ticket because you are convinced you weren't actually speeding and the radar detector/operator was wrong, you would fight it because speeding tickets are unconstitutional?

 

[archangel]

Oh, good grief.. The cops don't typically pull you over unless you're doing 10 miles or more over the speed limit.. If you're driving fast enough to get pulled over, suck it up and pay the ticket.

-The Voice Of Experience.

now that is the voice of true experience and logic...kudos to you shattered!

 

[insein]

Oh, good grief.. The cops don't typically pull you over unless you're doing 10 miles or more over the speed limit.. If you're driving fast enough to get pulled over, suck it up and pay the ticket.

-The Voice Of Experience.

Yes just bend over and take it rather then fighting it. Believe me i have paid my fair share of speeding tickets but the day we let the government just dictate to us what we are supposed to do is the day we lose our freedom. The government is supposed to be afraid of its citizens. You either abide by the people or you get overthrown. The government does not in anyway fear its citizens. Especially the local level. Town hall meetings go something this.

Citizen A: "Why are we spending x amount to build a mini-mall when we have 5 other mini malls within 20 miles of each other? We are wasting x-amount of dollars on these kinds of projects every year?"

Township Commtte member: "Ok, next"

Citizen B: "We have a petition to NOT have this mall built. IT will hinder the lives of x-number of people in this neighborhood."

Citzen C-Z: "We echo the same as our fellow citizens."

Township member: "Ok we've heard everyone we'll now vote. Voting completed. The mall will be built. Next issue."

And thats the end of the discussion. Same goes on ALL the time. Watch your local government channel if you have cable. You'll see the craziest, most unconstituional things on these stations at town hall meetings. No one says anything due to apathy or ignorance and those that do are simply ignored. I fear for our nation when i see things like this.

 

[Shattered]

Yes just bend over and take it rather then fighting it. Believe me i have paid my fair share of speeding tickets but the day we let the government just dictate to us what we are supposed to do is the day we lose our freedom. The government is supposed to be afraid of its citizens. You either abide by the people or you get overthrown. The government does not in anyway fear its citizens. Especially the local level. Town hall meetings go something this.

Citizen A: "Why are we spending x amount to build a mini-mall when we have 5 other mini malls within 20 miles of each other? We are wasting x-amount of dollars on these kinds of projects every year?"

Township Commtte member: "Ok, next"

Citizen B: "We have a petition to NOT have this mall built. IT will hinder the lives of x-number of people in this neighborhood."

Citzen C-Z: "We echo the same as our fellow citizens."

Township member: "Ok we've heard everyone we'll now vote. Voting completed. The mall will be built. Next issue."

And thats the end of the discussion. Same goes on ALL the time. Watch your local government channel if you have cable. You'll see the craziest, most unconstituional things on these stations at town hall meetings. No one says anything due to apathy or ignorance and those that do are simply ignored. I fear for our nation when i see things like this.

Regardless of whether or not you *think* it's unconstitutional, the fact remains that it IS a *law*. Get the law changed *before* you go breaking it if it means that much to you....

 

[insein]

Regardless of whether or not you *think* it's unconstitutional, the fact remains that it IS a *law*. Get the law changed *before* you go breaking it if it means that much to you....

Thats what i mean. These laws are passed and 90% of the citizens dont even realize it. We cant get these laws changed because these people wanted the laws for a reason. Whether that means more money in their pockets or more power for them and their buddies, they dont intend to repeal a law that they made or has been on the books for awhile.

What is a regular law-abiding citizen to do? Criminals dont care about these speeding tickets because they will either run from the cops and get away or have no insurance or license plate and get away. Laws penalize the law-abiding. This country is made up of mostly law-abiding citizens. Those that pose a minor threat are arrested and placed in jail (marijuana use, no insurance on car, failure to pay child support, drunk driving when the legal limit is equivalent to 1 beer). Major laws work to take the crazies away (murder, rape, etc) but when you place these normal people in with killers and psychos how is that helping society? It doesnt. It helps government. It rids the population of those that they deem problematic and leaves a populace that says "I'll just pay the ticket cause i dont want any trouble."

Thus, freedom has lost a notch and government has gained a larger foothold.

 

[GotZoom]

Thats what i mean. These laws are passed and 90% of the citizens dont even realize it. We cant get these laws changed because these people wanted the laws for a reason. Whether that means more money in their pockets or more power for them and their buddies, they dont intend to repeal a law that they made or has been on the books for awhile.

What is a regular law-abiding citizen to do? Criminals dont care about these speeding tickets because they will either run from the cops and get away or have no insurance or license plate and get away. Laws penalize the law-abiding. This country is made up of mostly law-abiding citizens. Those that pose a minor threat are arrested and placed in jail (marijuana use, no insurance on car, failure to pay child support, drunk driving when the legal limit is equivalent to 1 beer). Major laws work to take the crazies away (murder, rape, etc) but when you place these normal people in with killers and psychos how is that helping society? It doesnt. It helps government. It rids the population of those that they deem problematic and leaves a populace that says "I'll just pay the ticket cause i dont want any trouble."

Thus, freedom has lost a notch and government has gained a larger foothold.

I bet there are thousands and thousands of people who would argue this with you.

 

[insein]

I bet there are thousands and thousands of people who would argue this with you.

And i can think of thousands more that get exploited by it. How should a guy goto jail for not paying money to another person? How is he a danger to society?

And yes it is primarily men who goto jail. Rarely do women goto jail for failure to pay child support.

 

[Shattered]

Well, if you want to give them even more money, I guess keep getting caught speeding. Me.. I've learned my lesson - I just don't get caught.

 

[Merlin]

Thats what i mean. These laws are passed and 90% of the citizens dont even realize it. We cant get these laws changed because these people wanted the laws for a reason. Whether that means more money in their pockets or more power for them and their buddies, they dont intend to repeal a law that they made or has been on the books for awhile.

What is a regular law-abiding citizen to do? Criminals dont care about these speeding tickets because they will either run from the cops and get away or have no insurance or license plate and get away. Laws penalize the law-abiding. This country is made up of mostly law-abiding citizens. Those that pose a minor threat are arrested and placed in jail (marijuana use, no insurance on car, failure to pay child support, drunk driving when the legal limit is equivalent to 1 beer). Major laws work to take the crazies away (murder, rape, etc) but when you place these normal people in with killers and psychos how is that helping society? It doesnt. It helps government. It rids the population of those that they deem problematic and leaves a populace that says "I'll just pay the ticket cause i dont want any trouble."

Thus, freedom has lost a notch and government has gained a larger foothold.

Taking a chance of getting stomped on, I will agree with insein on this subject. "In my opinion", we could and should, remove about 99.99% of the laws in the United States. Most are senseless.

 

[archangel]

Taking a chance of getting stomped on, I will agree with insein on this subject. "In my opinion", we could and should, remove about 99.99% of the laws in the United States. Most are senseless.

nah ya just stomped on yourself all by yourself...remove 99.99% geez...maybe a few but by no means 99.99%...please explain what 99 % you would remove!