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The classical laws of thought certainly can be contravened and thus demonstrate that God's existence cannot be proved absolutely.
The far right social con moralists and the militant atheists cannot create new definitions and terms and narratives. They whinge and cringe when rightfully corrected, like Justin Davis above.
So stop bragging about it and contravene them, tough guy.
the logical fallacy in the o/p is the implication that there are only two extremes, pretending you have no morality absent the bible, and some marxian a-religious philosophy.
the reality is that one doesn't need the bible to be moral. and, frankly, i have seen some pretty immoral spew from some of the most self-styled religious types on this board and in real life.
just saying.
There was no morality before the bible. All modern western civilizations are descended morally from Judeo Christian biblical principles. The problem with you libs, is you think you're too smart for the bible. You don't need it anymore.
There was no morality before the bible. All modern western civilizations are descended morally from Judeo Christian biblical principles. The problem with you libs, is you think you're too smart for the bible. You don't need it anymore.
again, guy, did you ever hear of something called "The Code of Hammurabi"? It was a moral code by a Babylonian King that was written down well before the Bible.
Hey, you know who else had "moral codes" that had nothing to do with the Bible? The Greeks and the Romans. People who made the Judeans their bitches.
There was no morality before the bible. All modern western civilizations are descended morally from Judeo Christian biblical principles. The problem with you libs, is you think you're too smart for the bible. You don't need it anymore.
again, guy, did you ever hear of something called "The Code of Hammurabi"? It was a moral code by a Babylonian King that was written down well before the Bible.
Hey, you know who else had "moral codes" that had nothing to do with the Bible? The Greeks and the Romans. People who made the Judeans their bitches.
The Secret of Jewish Immortality
“If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality
Mark Twain
There was no morality before the bible. All modern western civilizations are descended morally from Judeo Christian biblical principles. The problem with you libs, is you think you're too smart for the bible. You don't need it anymore.
again, guy, did you ever hear of something called "The Code of Hammurabi"? It was a moral code by a Babylonian King that was written down well before the Bible.
Hey, you know who else had "moral codes" that had nothing to do with the Bible? The Greeks and the Romans. People who made the Judeans their bitches.
The Secret of Jewish Immortality
“If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality
Mark Twain
Perhaps you know of this, as well:
Over three hundred years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher of his day, to give him proof of the existence of miracles. Without a moment's hesitation, Pascal answered, "Why, the Jews, your Majesty-the Jews!”
Does your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
I understand. But the Bible doesn't pull any punches. It shows the great moments and the warts of the saints. There's but one perfect Being and He counts our obedience (the evidence of faith) as righteousness despite our moments of fear and failure. Sadly, Lots last recorded moments in the Bible were not among his finest.
Does your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course.
I understand. But the Bible doesn't pull any punches. It shows the great moments and the warts of the saints. There's but one perfect Being and He counts our obedience (the evidence of faith) as righteousness despite our moments of fear and failure. Sadly, Lots last recorded moments in the Bible were not among his finest.
In Islam, we know that the 124 000 prophets were all perfect human beings. They do not do bad things, only most noble things. If it happens that they do something strange (like Jonas who, when he got angry at his people decided to leave them) it is on purpose, for the sake of teaching. Prophets are teachers indeed. In any case, Lot (peace on him) never did these things. Look well at those who wrote the Bible, it has nothing to do with what Jesus said.
Islam and Freedom of ReligionDoes your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course.
I understand. But the Bible doesn't pull any punches. It shows the great moments and the warts of the saints. There's but one perfect Being and He counts our obedience (the evidence of faith) as righteousness despite our moments of fear and failure. Sadly, Lots last recorded moments in the Bible were not among his finest.
In Islam, we know that the 124 000 prophets were all perfect human beings. They do not do bad things, only most noble things. If it happens that they do something strange (like Jonas who, when he got angry at his people decided to leave them) it is on purpose, for the sake of teaching. Prophets are teachers indeed. In any case, Lot (peace on him) never did these things. Look well at those who wrote the Bible, it has nothing to do with what Jesus said.
Does your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
"I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course."
Thank you.
How is it possible to be Muslim, yet not follow the dictates of the Holy Q'ran?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
Islam and Freedom of ReligionDoes your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course.
I understand. But the Bible doesn't pull any punches. It shows the great moments and the warts of the saints. There's but one perfect Being and He counts our obedience (the evidence of faith) as righteousness despite our moments of fear and failure. Sadly, Lots last recorded moments in the Bible were not among his finest.
In Islam, we know that the 124 000 prophets were all perfect human beings. They do not do bad things, only most noble things. If it happens that they do something strange (like Jonas who, when he got angry at his people decided to leave them) it is on purpose, for the sake of teaching. Prophets are teachers indeed. In any case, Lot (peace on him) never did these things. Look well at those who wrote the Bible, it has nothing to do with what Jesus said.
Does your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
"I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course."
Thank you.
How is it possible to be Muslim, yet not follow the dictates of the Holy Q'ran?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
Islam and Freedom of ReligionDoes your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course.
I understand. But the Bible doesn't pull any punches. It shows the great moments and the warts of the saints. There's but one perfect Being and He counts our obedience (the evidence of faith) as righteousness despite our moments of fear and failure. Sadly, Lots last recorded moments in the Bible were not among his finest.
In Islam, we know that the 124 000 prophets were all perfect human beings. They do not do bad things, only most noble things. If it happens that they do something strange (like Jonas who, when he got angry at his people decided to leave them) it is on purpose, for the sake of teaching. Prophets are teachers indeed. In any case, Lot (peace on him) never did these things. Look well at those who wrote the Bible, it has nothing to do with what Jesus said.
Does your understanding of the term "morality" include killing those who don't agree with your version of religion?
"I replied in my previous posts. Again, the answer is no, of course."
Thank you.
How is it possible to be Muslim, yet not follow the dictates of the Holy Q'ran?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
Perhaps you know of this, as well:
Over three hundred years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher of his day, to give him proof of the existence of miracles. Without a moment's hesitation, Pascal answered, "Why, the Jews, your Majesty-the Jews!”
How is it possible to be Muslim, yet not follow the dictates of the Holy Q'ran?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
While the Act was enacted for the noble purpose of insuring that poor patients received the same care that more wealthy and insured patients can receive, the emergency room system of universal health care has proven to be extremely costly."
Which again, has nothing to do with the context I was bringing up, that health insurance costs so much because we failed to enact SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL COVERAGE to get costs under control.
Which you tried to pass off as "It's okay that your wages have gone down since 1980, becuase your kind and benevloent employer is paying more money for crappier health insurance."
Liar.
The quote I provided was from another Leftist.....HuffPo
Perhaps you know of this, as well:
Over three hundred years ago King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great French philosopher of his day, to give him proof of the existence of miracles. Without a moment's hesitation, Pascal answered, "Why, the Jews, your Majesty-the Jews!”
Abraham was a prophet. He had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. Hundreds of Israeli prophets came down the line of Isaac (among them Moses and Jesus). One prophet came down the line of Ishamel, that was Muhammad, the Arab prophet (peace be upon him and his family). The family of Abraham is therefore the Israelites and the Arabs. But the very last prophet, the Seal of the prophets is Muhammad (peace be upon him). He is the last of the prophets and the best of them.
How is it possible to be Muslim, yet not follow the dictates of the Holy Q'ran?
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."
Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.
Muhammad was at war againts Jews and pagans. It was a war, not peace. These verses came to him in the midst of the war, telling him how to fight. These are not verses for me or you or human beings in general.
As to your link of Islam and freedom of religion, you give a website of the enemies of Islam. You must really value them so much as to trust them to remain honest in waht they say, in spite of their great enmity. It's not easy to stick to the truth and leave aside one's personal feelings. Yet, you trust them.
Never mind. Islam had a kingdom, the Islamic kingdom. The Ottoman kingdom was the final form of the Islamic kingdom. That Ottoman empire was the longest lasting dynasty in the history of mankind (624 years). The law of the whole empire was Islam. When all Muslims in the world are united under one king who rules by the law of Islam, and he is backed up by the heavenly saints here on earth who inherit from Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family); then Islamic law becomes relevant. Until them, Islamic law makes no sense and it is wrong. But if the Islamic law is rightly implemented, Islamic traditional knowledge does stipulate that one who leaves Islam after accepting it should be killed. Not only one who leaves Islam, but even one who decides to give up praying.
While the Act was enacted for the noble purpose of insuring that poor patients received the same care that more wealthy and insured patients can receive, the emergency room system of universal health care has proven to be extremely costly."
Which again, has nothing to do with the context I was bringing up, that health insurance costs so much because we failed to enact SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL COVERAGE to get costs under control.
Which you tried to pass off as "It's okay that your wages have gone down since 1980, becuase your kind and benevloent employer is paying more money for crappier health insurance."
Liar.
The quote I provided was from another Leftist.....HuffPo
Universal health care is generally thought of as providing a sufficient level health care to all citizens that doesn't entail financial hardship or ruin for anyone. If you can go bankrupt because of your health care bills, that is generally not thought of as universal health care.
The US system is generally not thought of as a universal health care system.
What a truly perverse ideology.
What a truly perverse ideology.
It's not perversity. Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists and so on were fine. You were free to follow whichever religion you want in this Islamic kingdom (though you would pay a small tax). What I said concerned the Muslims who refused to pray the 5 obligatory daily prayers or the Muslims who left Islam. So it's not perversity. It's purity.
What I said concerned the Muslims who refused to pray the 5 obligatory daily prayers or the Muslims who left Islam. So it's not perversity. It's purity.
