Prediction: Obama will not run in Arizona over birth certificate

[MaggieMae]

The internet COLB will not be enough as the bill requires this:

[The Arizona bill also requires attachments, "which shall be sworn to under penalty of perjury," including "an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance."

It also requires testimony that the candidate "has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."

"If both the candidate and the national political party committee for that candidate fail to submit and swear to the documents prescribed in this section, the secretary of state shall not place that presidential candidate's name on the ballot in this state," the state plan explains.]


As we all know and backed up by Obama's website 'Fight the Smears, Obama's father was a British National and due to the British Nationality Act Of 1948, that status governed Obama Srs children making young Barack a dual citizen at birth.

George Washington was a British Subject until he took some kind of oath after the Declaration of Independence was signed. But his new legions just took his word for it. He wasn't required to pass any any litmus test to prove his allegiance. So technically, Washington himself held dual citizenship.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The state of Arizona will soon pass a law requiring proof of citizenship before being allowed on the Presidential ballot.

Game-changer! Arizona to pass 2012 eligibility law

I predict, that after futiley spending millions to try to defeat the law, Obama will abandon Arizona in his re-election bid rather than come clean with the American people about his birth origins. While the 10 electoral votes at stake are not pivotal, Texas has 34 and it is going to pass a similar law. Other states may follow suit. The question is, will Obama surrender a second term rather than show us what he's hiding?

1. Personally I have no problem with any state having a law that says that any candidate for any elected position must submit documented evidence they meet all requirements for the position for which they are seeking election.

2. I also think that passing a law specifically targeting one individual position is suspect in terms of partisan hackery.

3. Even if Obama were to submit a birth certificate to each state showing birth in Hawaii, it wouldn't quite some because the issue for them is Obama's father not being a United States Citizen.

4. There has never been a Supreme Court case which directly concerned Presidential eligibility in terms of NBC status.



Politically speaking, if Arizona does pass the law and Obama bypasses Arizona in a bid for reelection - he's toast.


>>>>

He won't. He'll produce evidence that the MEDICAL certification of birth should be kept as confidential as any other MEDICAL report and that the hospital and state certification is ample proof of birth. And he'll win. Does Arizona wish to hold up a presidential election because of a fool's errand?

He wouldn't wiin on the MEDICAL aspect as birth certificates have been one of the documents to prove citizenship in the federal I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification for years as well as required for obtaining a passport and no challenge (that I know of) has ever been made under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) which limits (as a federal crime) the release of medical information.

Now the case is very likely to be interesting in terms of one state mandating the information that another state must include on it birth certifications. The law also appears to **assume** a definition for Natural Born Citizen for federal office which is not currently defined in federal law, nor has it been defined by the Supreme Court of the United States in a case directly related to Presidential eligibility.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

The internet COLB will not be enough as the bill requires this:

[The Arizona bill also requires attachments, "which shall be sworn to under penalty of perjury," including "an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance."

It also requires testimony that the candidate "has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."

"If both the candidate and the national political party committee for that candidate fail to submit and swear to the documents prescribed in this section, the secretary of state shall not place that presidential candidate's name on the ballot in this state," the state plan explains.]


As we all know and backed up by Obama's website 'Fight the Smears, Obama's father was a British National and due to the British Nationality Act Of 1948, that status governed Obama Srs children making young Barack a dual citizen at birth.

George Washington was a British Subject until he took some kind of oath after the Declaration of Independence was signed. But his new legions just took his word for it. He wasn't required to pass any any litmus test to prove his allegiance. So technically, Washington himself held dual citizenship.

Didn't matter where George Washington was born, nor any supposed oath, being a citizen of the colony of Virginia at the time the Constitution was adopted made him a United States Citizen. As per the Constitution (Article II Section 2) those where were citizens at the time of the adoption were exempt from the Natural Born Citizen requirement.



>>>>

 

[MaggieMae]

Wrong bucko. Each state decides who is qualified to run on their presidential ballot. If they demand proof of citizenship from candidates then Obama will have to comply or be left out.

just what we need... another birfer moron...

his birth was certified by the state of hawaii, freak boy...

there is no 'game changer' except in the fantasies of loons.

"Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012. "

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

So you'll accept that there is a birth certificate, without actually seing same?

How wonderful to find you to be a person of faith!

There's too much proof to the contrary that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii. They don't need to SEE the medical form detailing height, weight, birthmarks, etc., at birth. Ironically, the birfers are so insanely reactionary, they would probably try to claim it was a forgery even if that kind of document ever is produced for all the world to see. Don't you get it? These people aren't about to give up. If he were a white anglo, do you really believe this idiocy would be so relentlessly pursued?

 

[Flagwavrusa]

Wrong: State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

Hawaii law bars release of Obama birth info

Try to keep up with the latest information. Abercrombie is now admitting to friends and colleagues that he looked for the bc in government records, and in the only two Hawaian hospitals where Obama could have been born. Its not there!



If anti-birthers are so right, why do they always have to misstate the facts.

So what's up with that YouTube vid? A little box that says Mike Evans "misspoke" per Fox News. Shocking. Imagine that.

Yes, on the video this morning he clearly stated he spoke to the governor's office and portrays the governor as saying that no bc for Obama exists in Hawaii. Now he apparently is retracting that statement. Why the sudden change of direction I don't know. It's not over. The premise of the thread remains intact. The real telling will be what Obama does when he is required to provide the bc to get on the Arizona presidential ballot.

 

[MaggieMae]

From the Honolulu Star Advertiser:
Abercrombie drops effort to disclose more information on Obama birth certificate - Hawaii News - Staradvertiser.com
AP/Yahoo!
Hawaii law bars release of Obama birth info - Yahoo! News
Hawaii Reporter;
Gov. Neil Abercrombie Has Utterly Failed To Prove Obama Was Born In Hawaii | Hawaii Reporter
UPI:
Hawaii gov says state has Obama birth form - UPI.com
ABC News:
Obama Birth: Hawaii Gov. Says Proof of President's Birth Certificate Exists But Hasn't Produced the Document - ABC News
The Daily Mail:
Hawaii governor says Obama's birth record 'exists' but can't produce it | Mail Online

I fail to see how this quote from your fist link.......

Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said today.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

......in any way supports the OP's opinion of.......

The sitting Governor of Hawaii is publicly stating, today in the mainstream media, that there is no Obama birth certificate.

Once again:

Click on your own YouTube video, you fool!! What do you see?

 

[Flopper]

I would like to see Obama provide the state exactly what he provides other states and let them pull him from the ballot. The Obama campaign would have a field day with this. A Republican state denies a sitting President and the Democratic nominee access to the ballot practically guaranteeing that the Republican candidate would carry the state.

Since Obama wouldn't carry Arizona anyway, this would be a gift to the Obama campaign and a black eye for the Republican party that would last long after the election. It reminds me of the Old South. If you can't beat them at the polls, then find a way to keep them off the ballot.

 

[rightwinger]

just what we need... another birfer moron...

his birth was certified by the state of hawaii, freak boy...

there is no 'game changer' except in the fantasies of loons.

"Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012. "

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

So you'll accept that there is a birth certificate, without actually seing same?

How wonderful to find you to be a person of faith!

There's too much proof to the contrary that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii. They don't need to SEE the medical form detailing height, weight, birthmarks, etc., at birth. Ironically, the birfers are so insanely reactionary, they would probably try to claim it was a forgery even if that kind of document ever is produced for all the world to see. Don't you get it? These people aren't about to give up. If he were a white anglo, do you really believe this idiocy would be so relentlessly pursued?

Conspiracy nuts are mostly colorblind....but they are still nutz

 

[MaggieMae]

The internet COLB will not be enough as the bill requires this:

[The Arizona bill also requires attachments, "which shall be sworn to under penalty of perjury," including "an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance."

It also requires testimony that the candidate "has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."

"If both the candidate and the national political party committee for that candidate fail to submit and swear to the documents prescribed in this section, the secretary of state shall not place that presidential candidate's name on the ballot in this state," the state plan explains.]


As we all know and backed up by Obama's website 'Fight the Smears, Obama's father was a British National and due to the British Nationality Act Of 1948, that status governed Obama Srs children making young Barack a dual citizen at birth.

Don't have an issue with states requiring documentation of proof of eligibility, but just a couple of comments...


1. Many states don't issue "long form" birth certificates any more.

2. A location of birth inside the United States establishes citizenship, requiring the hospital is not needed.

3. A location of birth inside the United States establishes citizenship, requiring an attending physician is not needed. (I hate to break it to many but many children are born with no attending attending physician.)

4. Just to be picky, "Natural Born Citizen" is a condition at birth and does not preclude gaining citizenship after birth in another country. Now attesting that there was no dual-citizenship status at birth is part of it.



>>>>

Also, some states, my own included, have destroy-by policies. Apparently there is no record of MY OWN long form medical birth certificate. I only know that because I've been carrying around a very old copy of my short-form birth certificate so long that it's seriously dog-eared, and last summer on a trip to Newport VT where I was born, stopped at the hospital to get a new copy. On an off-chance, I asked if I could have the actual record which showed my birth weight, ink blots of my feet, etc., and was told that those are automatically destroyed after 50 years because they serve no purpose. Operative words: SERVE NO PURPOSE. Hospital and state certification are all that is required.

 

[MaggieMae]

I fail to see how this quote from your fist link.......

Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said today.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

......in any way supports the OP's opinion of.......

The sitting Governor of Hawaii is publicly stating, today in the mainstream media, that there is no Obama birth certificate.

Once again:

Would it be over the top to point out here that Abercrombie is just one more socialist connection in government?

1. "...included documentary evidence, from Democratic Socialists of America publications - none of which was challenged or refuted by the Abercrombie campaign
 D.S.A.’s Democratic Left newspaper, November/December 1990 issue, page 4, described Neil Abercrombie as a , “DSAer Democrat". The term "DSAer" is common in D.S.A. literature and is used interchangeably with "DSA member".  Neil Abercrombie's wife, Nancie Caraway was listed as a member of the 1985 Democratic Socialists of America Feminist Commission.

 According to a Winter 2006 Democratic Left, page 4 article on D.S.A. support for then Congressman Bernie Sanders, Neil Abercrombie attended a July 5, 2006, D.S.A. event in Washington D.C.
(For scans of the documentary evidence to support these claims, go here.)
Now comes yet further documentary evidence of Abercrombie's ties to D.S.A.
Abercrombie part of Democratic Socialists of America Caucus at Democratic National Convention > Hawaii Free Press > Articles Main

2. And, of course, assoiated with the Obama's...
"Gov. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, who befriended President Obama’s parents when they were university students here,..."
"...and I knew his mother and father; they were my friends, and I have an emotional interest in that,”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/us/25hawaii.html

Blah blah blah. I had higher hopes for you, PC. Back to parroting your usual twisted spin, I see.

 

[MaggieMae]

Hawaii said so. That's been good enough for the courts. A state law on the subject isn't going to change a thing.

Wrong bucko. Each state decides who is qualified to run on their presidential ballot. If they demand proof of citizenship from candidates then Obama will have to comply or be left out.

I may be a bit too cynical on this, but I don't think that there is any chance that Arizona or any other state will win, ultimately.

Do you actually believe that there will not be a Democrat-appointed federal judge who will not throw the case out???

So, you still believe that we are a nation of laws, not a nation of men....
well, good for you. It speaks well for you; keep on keeping on.

Well let's see. The still conservative United States Supreme Court has thrown out at least three attempts to deny Obama his citizenship. Is that a better clue?

 

[MaggieMae]

Can one imagine the loonies on the right when Hillary wins in 2016? I wonder if they will claim she is a robot. Gosh, that's my predication, the loonies on the right will go even crazier. All we need after that is a Black democratic woman president, and we will have to reopen all those insane asylums so the right has a place to live and be among their peers. FactCheck.org: Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?

They already live in very dark places. Usually their Mom's basement.

 

[MaggieMae]

Can one imagine the loonies on the right when Hillary wins in 2016? I wonder if they will claim she is a robot. Gosh, that's my predication, the loonies on the right will go even crazier. All we need after that is a Black democratic woman president, and we will have to reopen all those insane asylums so the right has a place to live and be among their peers. FactCheck.org: Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?

1. Fact Check: Yes. His campaign made a copy [of his birth certificate] public after speculation by conservative bloggers that he might not be a "natural-born citizen."

2. Governor Abercrombie of Hawaii: "Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie allegedly told one of his friends "there is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii." Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie Allegedly Tells Reporter Friend, 'There Is No Barack Obama Birth Certificate in Hawaii'


Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer cherce.

Or ya learn to read for accuracy, not speculation. There's a FoxNews disclaimer on the posted YouTube video of the Mike Evans interview which states he may have "misspoke."

 

[MaggieMae]

Try to keep up with the latest information. Abercrombie is now admitting to friends and colleagues that he looked for the bc in government records, and in the only two Hawaian hospitals where Obama could have been born. Its not there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE

If anti-birthers are so right, why do they always have to misstate the facts.

The Hawaii Governor said he did not remember seeing Obama before he was 5 years old. Who remembers that much before they were 5 yeas old anyhow? The thing that should bother people the most is Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from age 6 to age 10, his most influential years. This would make a larger impact on a person than where they were born.

Oh please. I barely remember anything about my teachers until fourth grade, and then only vaguely. That young, kids are learning things by rote, not political messaging.

 

[MaggieMae]

Its not one state versus another. Each state determines qualifications to be on the ballot, and if Arizona demands all candidates furnish a valid certified birth certificate it's none of Hawaii's business.

I'm afraid not

Arizona does not have the right to rule a Hawaiian is not a citizen

They are not ruling anyone. The requirement is for Arizona alone and is a local issue. There may be a grater SCOTUS issue in this but it has zero to do with Hawaii and OB's birth state. Arizona is not asking anything if Hawaii but rather asking for a birth certificate in order to get on the Arizona ballot.

I say let them try. The outrage from all the rest of the country will assure Obama a landslide victory.

 

[MaggieMae]

1. Personally I have no problem with any state having a law that says that any candidate for any elected position must submit documented evidence they meet all requirements for the position for which they are seeking election.

2. I also think that passing a law specifically targeting one individual position is suspect in terms of partisan hackery.

3. Even if Obama were to submit a birth certificate to each state showing birth in Hawaii, it wouldn't quite some because the issue for them is Obama's father not being a United States Citizen.

4. There has never been a Supreme Court case which directly concerned Presidential eligibility in terms of NBC status.



Politically speaking, if Arizona does pass the law and Obama bypasses Arizona in a bid for reelection - he's toast.


>>>>

He won't. He'll produce evidence that the MEDICAL certification of birth should be kept as confidential as any other MEDICAL report and that the hospital and state certification is ample proof of birth. And he'll win. Does Arizona wish to hold up a presidential election because of a fool's errand?

Do you think the birthers are fool's? I do.

I think they're bigots. White supremacists in suits leading the great white unwashed.

 

[rightwinger]

The internet COLB will not be enough as the bill requires this:

[The Arizona bill also requires attachments, "which shall be sworn to under penalty of perjury," including "an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance."

It also requires testimony that the candidate "has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate's allegiance is solely to the United States of America."

"If both the candidate and the national political party committee for that candidate fail to submit and swear to the documents prescribed in this section, the secretary of state shall not place that presidential candidate's name on the ballot in this state," the state plan explains.]


As we all know and backed up by Obama's website 'Fight the Smears, Obama's father was a British National and due to the British Nationality Act Of 1948, that status governed Obama Srs children making young Barack a dual citizen at birth.

Don't have an issue with states requiring documentation of proof of eligibility, but just a couple of comments...


1. Many states don't issue "long form" birth certificates any more.

2. A location of birth inside the United States establishes citizenship, requiring the hospital is not needed.

3. A location of birth inside the United States establishes citizenship, requiring an attending physician is not needed. (I hate to break it to many but many children are born with no attending attending physician.)

4. Just to be picky, "Natural Born Citizen" is a condition at birth and does not preclude gaining citizenship after birth in another country. Now attesting that there was no dual-citizenship status at birth is part of it.



>>>>

Also, some states, my own included, have destroy-by policies. Apparently there is no record of MY OWN long form medical birth certificate. I only know that because I've been carrying around a very old copy of my short-form birth certificate so long that it's seriously dog-eared, and last summer on a trip to Newport VT where I was born, stopped at the hospital to get a new copy. On an off-chance, I asked if I could have the actual record which showed my birth weight, ink blots of my feet, etc., and was told that those are automatically destroyed after 50 years because they serve no purpose. Operative words: SERVE NO PURPOSE. Hospital and state certification are all that is required.

Sadly, you will never be President

 

[MaggieMae]

1. Personally I have no problem with any state having a law that says that any candidate for any elected position must submit documented evidence they meet all requirements for the position for which they are seeking election.

2. I also think that passing a law specifically targeting one individual position is suspect in terms of partisan hackery.

3. Even if Obama were to submit a birth certificate to each state showing birth in Hawaii, it wouldn't quite some because the issue for them is Obama's father not being a United States Citizen.

4. There has never been a Supreme Court case which directly concerned Presidential eligibility in terms of NBC status.



Politically speaking, if Arizona does pass the law and Obama bypasses Arizona in a bid for reelection - he's toast.


>>>>

He won't. He'll produce evidence that the MEDICAL certification of birth should be kept as confidential as any other MEDICAL report and that the hospital and state certification is ample proof of birth. And he'll win. Does Arizona wish to hold up a presidential election because of a fool's errand?

He wouldn't wiin on the MEDICAL aspect as birth certificates have been one of the documents to prove citizenship in the federal I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification for years as well as required for obtaining a passport and no challenge (that I know of) has ever been made under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) which limits (as a federal crime) the release of medical information.

Now the case is very likely to be interesting in terms of one state mandating the information that another state must include on it birth certifications. The law also appears to **assume** a definition for Natural Born Citizen for federal office which is not currently defined in federal law, nor has it been defined by the Supreme Court of the United States in a case directly related to Presidential eligibility.


>>>>

I have had a passport for years and got a new one last year due to the new law using my simple certification of birth. It is NOT the medical version.

 

[bucs90]

Hawaii said so. That's been good enough for the courts. A state law on the subject isn't going to change a thing.

Wrong bucko. Each state decides who is qualified to run on their presidential ballot. If they demand proof of citizenship from candidates then Obama will have to comply or be left out.

just what we need... another birfer moron...

his birth was certified by the state of hawaii, freak boy...

there is no 'game changer' except in the fantasies of loons.

I've been a pretty staunch anti-birther guy, although being a right winger, because I just didn't believe it. I thought if that was even close to true, Hillary would've been all over it in 08.


But, I've been keeping up with the claims. And literally last night, a Hawaii government official, who was in charge of producing the certified birth certificate, signed and swore an affidavit stating he was told by his superiors that the certificate did not exist, and that the long form one could not be produced, and political pressure would prevent them from admitting that publicly. This guy is coming out now in a sworn affidavit with those facts. He states neither hospital has ANY record of Obama's birth, other than a hand written note regarding it. And he also states the short form, or whatever was produced, was inspected and found to be manufactured by modern day Word software, and that nowhere in Hawaii does a real, legitimate birth certificate exist for Barack Obama.


Again, I still don't buy into this. But some crazy shit has been coming out of this topic the last 48 hours.

 

[bucs90]

I'm afraid not

Arizona does not have the right to rule a Hawaiian is not a citizen

They are not ruling anyone. The requirement is for Arizona alone and is a local issue. There may be a grater SCOTUS issue in this but it has zero to do with Hawaii and OB's birth state. Arizona is not asking anything if Hawaii but rather asking for a birth certificate in order to get on the Arizona ballot.

I say let them try. The outrage from all the rest of the country will assure Obama a landslide victory.

I disagree. If AZ does that, and Obama can't provide the long form BC, combined with the overall distrust of the gov't lately anyway, I think 80% of the country would become so suspicious that they'd flock away from him even more than they already have.


I still don't know why his staff and Hawaii don't just end this now and provide all the long forms, etc, etc, that they are wanting to see. Make them look silly. But they haven't done it yet.