Prayer

[onecut39]

I am not being mean or nasty or even argumentative. I am not trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to understand a thought process. Yours.

The subject is prayer. People have been doing it forever with an astounding, documented, lack of success. Over the years studies have been done, statistics have been formulated and the success rate of prayer is dismal. There have been statements made that belief and prayer can be greatly helpful in healing the sick and emotionally injured. Other studies have stated that the important thing is the belief, sincere of course, that things will be better. It seems not to matter if you are praying to the easter bunny, or the supreme being. All that matters is a belief that something or someone, perhaps just yourself, will make you better.

The doctrine (christian) is even stacked against prayer. One of the prime impediments is the doctrine of free will. This eliminates prayer being a factor in dealing with your fellow man. Sure, you have free will, allowing you to screw up as you will. So does everyone else, including those who will wish you, or cause you, pain. It is their free will that causes it and God does not interfere. Pray for a safe journey? Useless! If somebody is going to get drunk and smash you all to heck, that is a factor of their free will. Untouchable.

Natural disasters are not covered by prayer. This is so obvious that it needs no explanation. What is the logic of praying to be saved from the very disaster God has set upon you? If God cares little for the hurricane or the tornado why in the world do you give thanks for escaping what was essentially a set up? This has even been immortalized in one of those old sayings that cannot be refuted. “The rain falls on both the just and the unjust”.

How about pestilence and plague? Suppose you pray to be healed and you are? How then would you rationalize all those other good folks, true believers all, perhaps better than you, who are not spared? Are they all being punished? For what? And has not your free will put you in the position where you could get sick?

So what is left to pray for? All I can see is that you pray for strength to get through the blunders of life, often yours, sometimes those of others. But there is always that free will thing and I continue to wonder if you get points for being a dufus.

Can you pray to get to heaven? I thought you either got there or not by works or faith or some kind of combination of the two. You either do it or you don’t and praying is irrelevant.

So help me out. What is there to pray for? It seems that whatever it is you must bend the rules set forth in the doctrine itself.

My wife has participated in a church prayer chain forever. They pray for this and that, for healing, strength and guidance. Over the many years I have observed this I have seen not one miraculous healing. Folks still had their pain and sorrow. What relief they have gotten seems to have come from their fellow churchgoers. Through their free will as it were.

Quite frankly, it is impossible to make a case for prayer, at least not based on it’s success rate. So my question is, for those of you who do pray, why? Surely it cannot be for results

 

[RodISHI]

So my question is, for those of you who do pray, why? Surely it cannot be for results

I do not attend a church per say I do what you could call pray. For me it has been more like just talking to God internally. The spirit that guides and helps. It has been something I have done from the youngest age that I can recall.

When I was little and I had questions I would call out to God. As I got older I still called out to God for help. Even got mad at God at a point during my teen years because I did not understand why people had to go away and die.

You ask why and the only reason I can give you is because God put it in my heart to do so. In that my prayers and request were answered along the way.

 

[Meriweather]

I am not being mean or nasty or even argumentative. I am not trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to understand a thought process. Yours.

The subject is prayer. People have been doing it forever with an astounding, documented, lack of success. Over the years studies have been done, statistics have been formulated and the success rate of prayer is dismal. There have been statements made that belief and prayer can be greatly helpful in healing the sick and emotionally injured. Other studies have stated that the important thing is the belief, sincere of course, that things will be better. It seems not to matter if you are praying to the easter bunny, or the supreme being. All that matters is a belief that something or someone, perhaps just yourself, will make you better.

The doctrine (christian) is even stacked against prayer. One of the prime impediments is the doctrine of free will. This eliminates prayer being a factor in dealing with your fellow man. Sure, you have free will, allowing you to screw up as you will. So does everyone else, including those who will wish you, or cause you, pain. It is their free will that causes it and God does not interfere. Pray for a safe journey? Useless! If somebody is going to get drunk and smash you all to heck, that is a factor of their free will. Untouchable.

Natural disasters are not covered by prayer. This is so obvious that it needs no explanation. What is the logic of praying to be saved from the very disaster God has set upon you? If God cares little for the hurricane or the tornado why in the world do you give thanks for escaping what was essentially a set up? This has even been immortalized in one of those old sayings that cannot be refuted. “The rain falls on both the just and the unjust”.

How about pestilence and plague? Suppose you pray to be healed and you are? How then would you rationalize all those other good folks, true believers all, perhaps better than you, who are not spared? Are they all being punished? For what? And has not your free will put you in the position where you could get sick?

So what is left to pray for? All I can see is that you pray for strength to get through the blunders of life, often yours, sometimes those of others. But there is always that free will thing and I continue to wonder if you get points for being a dufus.

Can you pray to get to heaven? I thought you either got there or not by works or faith or some kind of combination of the two. You either do it or you don’t and praying is irrelevant.

So help me out. What is there to pray for? It seems that whatever it is you must bend the rules set forth in the doctrine itself.

My wife has participated in a church prayer chain forever. They pray for this and that, for healing, strength and guidance. Over the many years I have observed this I have seen not one miraculous healing. Folks still had their pain and sorrow. What relief they have gotten seems to have come from their fellow churchgoers. Through their free will as it were.

Quite frankly, it is impossible to make a case for prayer, at least not based on it’s success rate. So my question is, for those of you who do pray, why? Surely it cannot be for results

First, prayer is not analogous to having a Genii in a Bottle--i.e., say a prayer and your wish will be granted. This is one of the reason my husband sees no reason for prayer. If it doesn't grant wishes, what good is it?

When I pray, I do not tell God what I want. Rather, I lay my problems or concern before Him and then watch and look for guidance. Unless someone else has been through something like this, it will be meaningless. About a decade ago, I wanted to be better at something. It was a "right" prayer, something attainable, but I was struggling--and had been for a long time. Getting no where on my own, I turned to God through prayer. Four, five years went by, and I continued to pray, because Christ told us sometimes we have to be persistent in prayers. But come on! Four YEARS???!!!?

Then, one day, everything clicked into place. Once it did, I was in awe, because I could suddenly see how quirky things--things I barely paid attention to at the time--were all part of a design that answered my prayer for help. Quirky, coincidental things that were odd, even at the time, but shrugged off as the bounces life takes. In the end, I needed each and everyone of those bounces.

Jesus advised when doing good deeds, don't let your left hand no what your right hand is doing. Keep it secret." God is an expert at this, and often all we have to share with others is that we saw God's "fingerprints."

When it comes to prayer, my advice is to remember God is not your Genii. Nor is God a magician, a master of illusion. Whereas I really had been hoping God could help me with my problem within the month, the problem was greater than a month's work. It was also kind of like asking for a hut but gaining the Taj Mahal. When God undertakes something, He does it right.

 

[onecut39]

I am not being mean or nasty or even argumentative. I am not trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to understand a thought process. Yours.

The subject is prayer. People have been doing it forever with an astounding, documented, lack of success. Over the years studies have been done, statistics have been formulated and the success rate of prayer is dismal. There have been statements made that belief and prayer can be greatly helpful in healing the sick and emotionally injured. Other studies have stated that the important thing is the belief, sincere of course, that things will be better. It seems not to matter if you are praying to the easter bunny, or the supreme being. All that matters is a belief that something or someone, perhaps just yourself, will make you better.

The doctrine (christian) is even stacked against prayer. One of the prime impediments is the doctrine of free will. This eliminates prayer being a factor in dealing with your fellow man. Sure, you have free will, allowing you to screw up as you will. So does everyone else, including those who will wish you, or cause you, pain. It is their free will that causes it and God does not interfere. Pray for a safe journey? Useless! If somebody is going to get drunk and smash you all to heck, that is a factor of their free will. Untouchable.

Natural disasters are not covered by prayer. This is so obvious that it needs no explanation. What is the logic of praying to be saved from the very disaster God has set upon you? If God cares little for the hurricane or the tornado why in the world do you give thanks for escaping what was essentially a set up? This has even been immortalized in one of those old sayings that cannot be refuted. “The rain falls on both the just and the unjust”.

How about pestilence and plague? Suppose you pray to be healed and you are? How then would you rationalize all those other good folks, true believers all, perhaps better than you, who are not spared? Are they all being punished? For what? And has not your free will put you in the position where you could get sick?

So what is left to pray for? All I can see is that you pray for strength to get through the blunders of life, often yours, sometimes those of others. But there is always that free will thing and I continue to wonder if you get points for being a dufus.

Can you pray to get to heaven? I thought you either got there or not by works or faith or some kind of combination of the two. You either do it or you don’t and praying is irrelevant.

So help me out. What is there to pray for? It seems that whatever it is you must bend the rules set forth in the doctrine itself.

My wife has participated in a church prayer chain forever. They pray for this and that, for healing, strength and guidance. Over the many years I have observed this I have seen not one miraculous healing. Folks still had their pain and sorrow. What relief they have gotten seems to have come from their fellow churchgoers. Through their free will as it were.

Quite frankly, it is impossible to make a case for prayer, at least not based on it’s success rate. So my question is, for those of you who do pray, why? Surely it cannot be for results

First, prayer is not analogous to having a Genii in a Bottle--i.e., say a prayer and your wish will be granted. This is one of the reason my husband sees no reason for prayer. If it doesn't grant wishes, what good is it?

When I pray, I do not tell God what I want. Rather, I lay my problems or concern before Him and then watch and look for guidance. Unless someone else has been through something like this, it will be meaningless. About a decade ago, I wanted to be better at something. It was a "right" prayer, something attainable, but I was struggling--and had been for a long time. Getting no where on my own, I turned to God through prayer. Four, five years went by, and I continued to pray, because Christ told us sometimes we have to be persistent in prayers. But come on! Four YEARS???!!!?

Then, one day, everything clicked into place. Once it did, I was in awe, because I could suddenly see how quirky things--things I barely paid attention to at the time--were all part of a design that answered my prayer for help. Quirky, coincidental things that were odd, even at the time, but shrugged off as the bounces life takes. In the end, I needed each and everyone of those bounces.

Jesus advised when doing good deeds, don't let your left hand no what your right hand is doing. Keep it secret." God is an expert at this, and often all we have to share with others is that we saw God's "fingerprints."

When it comes to prayer, my advice is to remember God is not your Genii. Nor is God a magician, a master of illusion. Whereas I really had been hoping God could help me with my problem within the month, the problem was greater than a month's work. It was also kind of like asking for a hut but gaining the Taj Mahal. When God undertakes something, He does it right.

It is astonishing that while 90% of people believe their prayers are answered the vast majority of them consider a negative answer is acceptable, feeling that if they did not get the desired result it was because God had something else in mind for them. I don't know if they ever find out what that is. I rather doubt it.

Five years is a rather long wait for an answer. I suspect that your own efforts had a lot to do with the outcome. Be that as it may I cannot simply reject your experience although I give different answers for your success. It is also strange that when asking for something like strength or endurance any success is granted to the power of god and any failure attributed to t he weakness of humans.

I say good for you! If you want to give all the credit to God that is your choice.

 

[Meriweather]

It is astonishing that while 90% of people believe their prayers are answered the vast majority of them consider a negative answer is acceptable, feeling that if they did not get the desired result it was because God had something else in mind for them. I don't know if they ever find out what that is. I rather doubt it.

Five years is a rather long wait for an answer. I suspect that your own efforts had a lot to do with the outcome. Be that as it may I cannot simply reject your experience although I give different answers for your success. It is also strange that when asking for something like strength or endurance any success is granted to the power of god and any failure attributed to t he weakness of humans.

I say good for you! If you want to give all the credit to God that is your choice.

For me, a prayer that is limited to "Yes" or "No" is not proper prayer. Nor am I one to give all credit to God, but I can differentiate between things that were my doing and things that were handed to me, so-to-speak. Five years was a long time...except the previous five years of "do-it-yourself" (along with the books) was getting me nowhere.

I can very much relate to people thinking there are different answers. First of all, one of the things prayer does (especially when one is not looking for a set yes/no answer) is awaken one to the various possibilities available. For example, "My loved one has a very serious illness, I ask for miraculous healing," has a person looking for improvement. Whereas, "My father is sick, and we ask for Your help," had our eyes open to the many possibilities and opportunities each day held.

Sometimes the cure is opening they eyes of the otherwise blind. I can very much understand how many might see that as not at all supernatural. Some (maybe a lot) of it probably isn't. However, there are other times it is just a bit hard to explain away as "coincidence."

I just wanted to offer an insight on why people continue to pray, and also to say I do understand why people are also skeptics of prayer.

 

[onecut39]

It is astonishing that while 90% of people believe their prayers are answered the vast majority of them consider a negative answer is acceptable, feeling that if they did not get the desired result it was because God had something else in mind for them. I don't know if they ever find out what that is. I rather doubt it.

Five years is a rather long wait for an answer. I suspect that your own efforts had a lot to do with the outcome. Be that as it may I cannot simply reject your experience although I give different answers for your success. It is also strange that when asking for something like strength or endurance any success is granted to the power of god and any failure attributed to t he weakness of humans.

I say good for you! If you want to give all the credit to God that is your choice.

For me, a prayer that is limited to "Yes" or "No" is not proper prayer. Nor am I one to give all credit to God, but I can differentiate between things that were my doing and things that were handed to me, so-to-speak. Five years was a long time...except the previous five years of "do-it-yourself" (along with the books) was getting me nowhere.

I can very much relate to people thinking there are different answers. First of all, one of the things prayer does (especially when one is not looking for a set yes/no answer) is awaken one to the various possibilities available. For example, "My loved one has a very serious illness, I ask for miraculous healing," has a person looking for improvement. Whereas, "My father is sick, and we ask for Your help," had our eyes open to the many possibilities and opportunities each day held.

Sometimes the cure is opening they eyes of the otherwise blind. I can very much understand how many might see that as not at all supernatural. Some (maybe a lot) of it probably isn't. However, there are other times it is just a bit hard to explain away as "coincidence."

I just wanted to offer an insight on why people continue to pray, and also to say I do understand why people are also skeptics of prayer.

Good enough.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am not being mean or nasty or even argumentative. I am not trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to understand a thought process. Yours.

The subject is prayer. People have been doing it forever with an astounding, documented, lack of success. Over the years studies have been done, statistics have been formulated and the success rate of prayer is dismal. There have been statements made that belief and prayer can be greatly helpful in healing the sick and emotionally injured. Other studies have stated that the important thing is the belief, sincere of course, that things will be better. It seems not to matter if you are praying to the easter bunny, or the supreme being. All that matters is a belief that something or someone, perhaps just yourself, will make you better.

The doctrine (christian) is even stacked against prayer. One of the prime impediments is the doctrine of free will. This eliminates prayer being a factor in dealing with your fellow man. Sure, you have free will, allowing you to screw up as you will. So does everyone else, including those who will wish you, or cause you, pain. It is their free will that causes it and God does not interfere. Pray for a safe journey? Useless! If somebody is going to get drunk and smash you all to heck, that is a factor of their free will. Untouchable.

Natural disasters are not covered by prayer. This is so obvious that it needs no explanation. What is the logic of praying to be saved from the very disaster God has set upon you? If God cares little for the hurricane or the tornado why in the world do you give thanks for escaping what was essentially a set up? This has even been immortalized in one of those old sayings that cannot be refuted. “The rain falls on both the just and the unjust”.

How about pestilence and plague? Suppose you pray to be healed and you are? How then would you rationalize all those other good folks, true believers all, perhaps better than you, who are not spared? Are they all being punished? For what? And has not your free will put you in the position where you could get sick?

So what is left to pray for? All I can see is that you pray for strength to get through the blunders of life, often yours, sometimes those of others. But there is always that free will thing and I continue to wonder if you get points for being a dufus.

Can you pray to get to heaven? I thought you either got there or not by works or faith or some kind of combination of the two. You either do it or you don’t and praying is irrelevant.

So help me out. What is there to pray for? It seems that whatever it is you must bend the rules set forth in the doctrine itself.

My wife has participated in a church prayer chain forever. They pray for this and that, for healing, strength and guidance. Over the many years I have observed this I have seen not one miraculous healing. Folks still had their pain and sorrow. What relief they have gotten seems to have come from their fellow churchgoers. Through their free will as it were.

Quite frankly, it is impossible to make a case for prayer, at least not based on it’s success rate. So my question is, for those of you who do pray, why? Surely it cannot be for results

First, prayer is not analogous to having a Genii in a Bottle--i.e., say a prayer and your wish will be granted. This is one of the reason my husband sees no reason for prayer. If it doesn't grant wishes, what good is it?

When I pray, I do not tell God what I want. Rather, I lay my problems or concern before Him and then watch and look for guidance. Unless someone else has been through something like this, it will be meaningless. About a decade ago, I wanted to be better at something. It was a "right" prayer, something attainable, but I was struggling--and had been for a long time. Getting no where on my own, I turned to God through prayer. Four, five years went by, and I continued to pray, because Christ told us sometimes we have to be persistent in prayers. But come on! Four YEARS???!!!?

Then, one day, everything clicked into place. Once it did, I was in awe, because I could suddenly see how quirky things--things I barely paid attention to at the time--were all part of a design that answered my prayer for help. Quirky, coincidental things that were odd, even at the time, but shrugged off as the bounces life takes. In the end, I needed each and everyone of those bounces.

Jesus advised when doing good deeds, don't let your left hand no what your right hand is doing. Keep it secret." God is an expert at this, and often all we have to share with others is that we saw God's "fingerprints."

When it comes to prayer, my advice is to remember God is not your Genii. Nor is God a magician, a master of illusion. Whereas I really had been hoping God could help me with my problem within the month, the problem was greater than a month's work. It was also kind of like asking for a hut but gaining the Taj Mahal. When God undertakes something, He does it right.

It is astonishing that while 90% of people believe their prayers are answered the vast majority of them consider a negative answer is acceptable, feeling that if they did not get the desired result it was because God had something else in mind for them. I don't know if they ever find out what that is. I rather doubt it.

Five years is a rather long wait for an answer. I suspect that your own efforts had a lot to do with the outcome. Be that as it may I cannot simply reject your experience although I give different answers for your success. It is also strange that when asking for something like strength or endurance any success is granted to the power of god and any failure attributed to t he weakness of humans.

I say good for you! If you want to give all the credit to God that is your choice.

I cannot speak to what others have received from God in prayer but everything that I have asked God for in prayer recently He has granted me. Every single thing and I am talking about 100%. Not only has he granted my petitions but He has also blessed me beyond what I could have thought for or imagined and I am speaking about just in the past 2 weeks. Huge answers to prayer and Huge blessings. If you knew specifically of what I'm talking about? You'd be utterly amazed. My Church is. I told them at our prayer meeting Sunday morning before church service and they were in open applause over His goodness towards me! I'm praising God today! He is the God who answers prayer! Is there any other God? Nope! I know not any!

 

[Avatar4321]

When I think of the purpose of prayer I always think of this:

"As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings." (Prayer)