Practicing religion without force

[Sky Dancer]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Sky Dancer: People will naturally question Buddhism if it is not what they are familiar with. There is just no need to make negative assumptions or attacks in "begging the question" or "demanding proof" after they already have their minds made up. That causes a negative reaction or rejection, which can hardly be blamed on the other person, as they would respond the same way!

Why not ask nicely if you are going to question?

Somehow we have become ashamed or afraid of our differences, where it is "okay" to tell somebody their business to their face but it is "not okay" to ask them what they are doing?
That this is considered intrusive to "ask" about personal beliefs, while it's okay to post public generalizations instead!

I don't object to the natural curiosity and need to resolve issues,
but the way it is stated negatively is not fair to either person.

I'm glad you worked it out with each other, and I hope more people do the same in following that example. Thank you!

1. You don't accept that Marie's post was hurtful and deeply offensive to me.

2. I don't care if someone shares their religion. I care when they question mine and tell me to take up theirs.

3. If you don't want to be friends that's ok

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness.

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

P.S. My friends do express criticisms and make mistakes that hurt each other.
That is part of free speech and respecting each other's honest thoughts, even if there are mistakes made that will require both of us working out. Just part of being human.

 

[Sky Dancer]

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness?

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

1. She was doing no such thing, she was pointing out the obviousness of your lack of peace.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism???? Seriously??? But, you're allowed to question christianity all you want?

3. I haven't 'personally attacked' you. You're just never going to change, are you?? Quit attacking me like this, Sky, I really don't appreciate all the disrespect that your post showed, now I'm personally hurt. I really wish you would quit attacking me and telling me where and when I can post. Two can play these games, yes?

She's sensitive and caring enough, yet she 'hurt' you with her sharing of her christian experiences?? Which is it???

1. She was telling me that my path is wrong.
2. She had no business telling me the Buddhist path is wrong.
3. I'm not personally attacking you, you are attacking me. You are telling me I haven't a right to my reaction.
4. I am not telling you where and when you can post. I'm questioning why you are holding on to something that happened between me and Marie that we have both resolved.

5. I'm not playing any games. I am being honest with you, as I was honest with Marie.

 

[R.D.]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

You still deny this?...

Sky defines Christianity within the small, unrealistic scope of what she was exposed too as a child in the Catholic church, and seems to refuse to acknowledge that it wasn't a normal experience, nor widely experienced by others. She refuses to acknowledge that the majority of christianity today is not like that, only the minority seems to matter. Yet when talking about the minority of muslims that run around killing people for their religion, she vehemently defends the majority as not being like them. Why she can't seem to do the same for christians is a mystery.

 

[Newby]

Who the hell is marie if you dont mind my asking?

It was in another thread, here is the link to the post that Marie made, judge for yourself if Sky should feel 'victimized' and 'disrespected' over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3402293-post171.html

 

[syrenn]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Dear Sky Dancer: People will naturally question Buddhism if it is not what they are familiar with. There is just no need to make negative assumptions or attacks in "begging the question" or "demanding proof" after they already have their minds made up. That causes a negative reaction or rejection, which can hardly be blamed on the other person, as they would respond the same way!

Why not ask nicely if you are going to question?

Somehow we have become ashamed or afraid of our differences, where it is "okay" to tell somebody their business to their face but it is "not okay" to ask them what they are doing?
That this is considered intrusive to "ask" about personal beliefs, while it's okay to post public generalizations instead!

I don't object to the natural curiosity and need to resolve issues,
but the way it is stated negatively is not fair to either person.

I'm glad you worked it out with each other, and I hope more people do the same in following that example. Thank you!

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness.

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

P.S. My friends do express criticisms and make mistakes that hurt each other.
That is part of free speech and respecting each other's honest thoughts, even if there are mistakes made that will require both of us working out. Just part of being human.

Hi Emily

There is a big difference between discussing Christianity and Buddhism's teachings and telling the other person their path is wrong and they should change it.

It's also offensive to try and religiously counsel someone on a forum when they haven't asked for advice.

I appreciate your post.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Who the hell is marie if you dont mind my asking?

It was in another thread, here is the link to the post that Marie made, judge for yourself if Sky should feel 'victimized' and 'disrespected' over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3402293-post171.html

Sky is allowed to feel whatever she feels without a jury deciding what is and isn't ok.

 

[Newby]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

Not to mention that what she described has nothing to do with 'religion'.

 

[Sky Dancer]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

I didn't say that. I illustrated an abuse of religion and use of force. This is the kind of heavy handed force that I object to.

 

[Newby]

Who the hell is marie if you dont mind my asking?

It was in another thread, here is the link to the post that Marie made, judge for yourself if Sky should feel 'victimized' and 'disrespected' over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3402293-post171.html

Sky is allowed to feel whatever she feels without a jury deciding what is and isn't ok.

Yes, she certainly is, but others don't have to buy into it.

 

[Newby]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

I didn't say that. I illustrated an abuse of religion and use of force.

It was 'abuse' by your step mother or whoever took you there, and it was her use of force, not the church's.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Newby: I agree with your point about being equally open to questioning either Buddhism or Christianity, in order to be fair.

The issue is how it was said.
If offense was caused, it was both people's responsibility to fix,
the person who said it wrong and the person who took it wrong.

They both worked it out.

And yes, I do find that those who practice Christian forgiveness may constantly find themselves in a position of having to do more forgiving and apologizing than others in order to set an example and break the cycle of retribution. Even if it means forgiving and apologizing first, before the other person who was more at fault. Happens all the time.

This may not seem fair, but in the end we are measured and blessed not by how much good we do but how much injustice we forgive. That way the poor who have suffered more persecution or injustice and still forgive it are more blessed in return, so it comes out relatively equal and just to those who suffered less but then have less reward.

Thank you for caring for consistency at the level you do.
I believe your underlying point is right, but it is a matter of how things are said
that becomes the issue. We all make these mistakes, the only way we can learn better is by resolving them when we do have these confrontations, to learn by experience.

People are trying their best. Thanks for your efforts in this as well!

 

[syrenn]

Dear Sky Dancer: People will naturally question Buddhism if it is not what they are familiar with. There is just no need to make negative assumptions or attacks in "begging the question" or "demanding proof" after they already have their minds made up. That causes a negative reaction or rejection, which can hardly be blamed on the other person, as they would respond the same way!

Why not ask nicely if you are going to question?

Somehow we have become ashamed or afraid of our differences, where it is "okay" to tell somebody their business to their face but it is "not okay" to ask them what they are doing?
That this is considered intrusive to "ask" about personal beliefs, while it's okay to post public generalizations instead!

I don't object to the natural curiosity and need to resolve issues,
but the way it is stated negatively is not fair to either person.

I'm glad you worked it out with each other, and I hope more people do the same in following that example. Thank you!

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness.

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

P.S. My friends do express criticisms and make mistakes that hurt each other.
That is part of free speech and respecting each other's honest thoughts, even if there are mistakes made that will require both of us working out. Just part of being human.

Hi Emily

There is a big difference between discussing Christianity and Buddhism's teachings and telling the other person their path is wrong and they should change it.

It's also offensive to try and religiously counsel someone on a forum when they haven't asked for advice.

I appreciate your post.

Discussing any religion in any framework IS counseling someone else. If you are stating your POV...that is counseling someone else.

If you don't like being counsellings about religion i would suggest you stop talking about religion...any religion. That way your feelings wont be hurt when discussing religion.

The nature of a message board is to express your POV and give opinions. If you don't like to hear other peoples opinions for what ever reason...maybe you need to examine your participation on message boards.

 

[Sky Dancer]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

Not to mention that what she described has nothing to do with 'religion'.

Actually it is relevant to religion--to Catholicism. Look up 'occasion of sin'. It's a Catholic teaching.

 

[syrenn]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

I didn't say that. I illustrated an abuse of religion and use of force. This is the kind of heavy handed force that I object to.

I think you made a classic Freudian slip.

 

[syrenn]

How do you force someone to practice religion? You yank them by the arm HARD and drag them into the church and force them into the confessional and tell them exactly what you want them to say to the priest and then you sit outside the confessional in a rage.

Why? Because you lost it and battered the kid and you want the kid to confess that she was an "occasion of sin" and the cause of your abuse to her.

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

Not to mention that what she described has nothing to do with 'religion'.

I agree. But the anger has to be placed somewhere. Most children would rather place the blame anywhere but on their parents.

Thanks for the marie link. I agree, marie was only stating her POV.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

I didn't say that. I illustrated an abuse of religion and use of force. This is the kind of heavy handed force that I object to.

I think you made a classic Freudian slip.

Really? How so? What is my error in speech? I made no unconscious slips. I object to heavy handed use of force and religious justification for it.

 

[Newby]

Dear Newby: I agree with your point about being equally open to questioning either Buddhism or Christianity, in order to be fair.

The issue is how it was said.
If offense was caused, it was both people's responsibility to fix,
the person who said it wrong and the person who took it wrong.

They both worked it out.

And yes, I do find that those who practice Christian forgiveness may constantly find themselves in a position of having to do more forgiving and apologizing than others in order to set an example and break the cycle of retribution. Even if it means forgiving and apologizing first, before the other person who was more at fault. Happens all the time.

This may not seem fair, but in the end we are measured and blessed not by how much good we do but how much injustice we forgive. That way the poor who have suffered more persecution or injustice and still forgive it are more blessed in return, so it comes out relatively equal and just to those who suffered less but then have less reward.

Thank you for caring for consistency at the level you do.
I believe your underlying point is right, but it is a matter of how things are said
that becomes the issue. We all make these mistakes, the only way we can learn better is by resolving them when we do have these confrontations, to learn by experience.

People are trying their best. Thanks for your efforts in this as well!

So, what part of Marie's post did you find offensive, if I may ask?

 

[syrenn]

So you are angry at your parents and not the church or christianiaty.

Not to mention that what she described has nothing to do with 'religion'.

Actually it is relevant to religion--to Catholicism. Look up 'occasion of sin'. It's a Catholic teaching.

How hard is it for you to understand. The mother blames her daughter. The daughter was the result of "her sin."

Get over it and be pissed as hell at the fucked up mother for taking out her "sin" on the daughter. If this mother was the daughter of a who got pregnant out of wedlock... she then got pregnant out of wedlock... i am sure she felt the daughter would fall to the same fate.

The only thing it has to do with religion...is because the mother believed in that shit...all of the guilt of getting pregnant and having a baby out of "holy wedlock".