Practicing religion without force

[AllieBaba]

Good thing I know you're joking.

Yes I was joking. The Wife is descended from some of the meanest warrior stock on the planet and would not take her kids or her self being beat on. It was the Lords word that brought me to him. Not a priest or preacher's. It was the same with my wife and kids. We are not all bad.

No, I don't think you're all bad. I don't think Christianity is bad. I think some things a few people do in the name of their God are bad.

I think some things done in the name of Buddha are bad, as well.

As well as some things done in the name of chocolate, the good of others, and Yorkshire terriers.

 

[Sky Dancer]

preaching or education?

there is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs...i dont see sky trying to force Buddhism on anyone...as much as sharing her beliefs..which there should be plenty of room for....she is in the r & e forum....

if you dont wanna read it dont....but dont attack someone for sharing....

Sky gets attacked for doing the exact same thing she pisses and moans about. That's it.

She wails and pours dirt on her head over the *forcing* of the Christian religion; she starts thread after thread after thread bashing Christianity...I know that's not the way she starts them, but that's her intention, and it's why she starts them; then when people respond, she pretends she's being harassed and harrangued and adopts the *who me?* defense.

It's the epitome of cowardice, passive aggression, and hypocrisy. That's why she gets attacked.

You've got a lot of excuses for attacking me. Truth is, we are all responsible for our own buttons. Sometimes my posts push your buttons, sometimes your posts push mine.

What you won't see me do is call you names, wish you harm or curse you out.

I've started a couple of threads today on Christian Mysticism and the role of gender in Christianity. Please join in and share your views. Neither are intended to be bash threads. I miss Madeline, because she and I shared a common experience with Catholicism.

If you avoid personally attacking me that would be most appreciated.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lol...here we go with the *attacking me* whinefest again.

Flipping nut.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Lol...here we go with the *attacking me* whinefest again.

Flipping nut.

Would you like me to list all the names you've called me?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Yes I was joking. The Wife is descended from some of the meanest warrior stock on the planet and would not take her kids or her self being beat on. It was the Lords word that brought me to him. Not a priest or preacher's. It was the same with my wife and kids. We are not all bad.

No, I don't think you're all bad. I don't think Christianity is bad. I think some things a few people do in the name of their God are bad.

I think some things done in the name of Buddha are bad, as well.

As well as some things done in the name of chocolate, the good of others, and Yorkshire terriers.

You forgot jack russel terriers and cats.

 

[Newby]

preaching or education?

there is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs...i dont see sky trying to force Buddhism on anyone...as much as sharing her beliefs..which there should be plenty of room for....she is in the r & e forum....

if you dont wanna read it dont....but dont attack someone for sharing....

But that's exactly what she did to Marie earlier in this thread.

 

[Newby]

Sky's problems with Christianity all stem from the fact that she isn't truly a buddhist.

Sky defines Christianity within the small, unrealistic scope of what she was exposed too as a child in the Catholic church, and seems to refuse to acknowledge that it wasn't a normal experience, nor widely experienced by others. She refuses to acknowledge that the majority of christianity today is not like that, only the minority seems to matter. Yet when talking about the minority of muslims that run around killing people for their religion, she vehemently defends the majority as not being like them. Why she can't seem to do the same for christians is a mystery.

I don't define Christianity by the experiences I had as a child. I merely point out why Christianity isn't my path. Why should I promote what failed me?

I have been quite clear about which Christians bother me and which ones I appreciate.
I fail to understand if what I post doesn't apply to you why you're offended by it. Are you really of the opinion that NO Christan hates gays? Are you of the view that I have no right to talk about my life experiences?

I work with Christians and get along with them quite well. I have Christian clients. I don't condemn the teachings of Christ, I think they are beautiful. I included a poem by a Christian writer because I thought Christians would like it. I didn't realize you would think I was preaching and be offended by it.

Christians are the majority religion in the US. I think they expect to be universally respected because there are so many of them.

I really appreciate the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, Quakers, and most of the Christians I know. I don't appreciate the Church in Las Vegas that supported Martin Ssempas campaign to execute gays in Uganda. I don't support Westboro Baptist Church, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Coral Ridge Ministeries, Pat Robertson.

What you can expect from me is courtesy. I appreciate you. I don't care that you happen to be a Christian. I feel that we connect on a heart level. It may not feel the same to you.

I don't call anyone names. When someone attributes something to me that I never said I point it out and untrue.

It seems my view is not popular or welcome in the religion forum. I accept that.

I could make a long list of all the Christians on this forum who I like and respect. It would surprise you.

So, why wasn't it Marie's right to talk about her life experiences as a Christian and share them with you? Why were you offended and felt disrespected to the point that she offered you an apology when all she did was share her views? Why is it okay for you, but not for her?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sky defines Christianity within the small, unrealistic scope of what she was exposed too as a child in the Catholic church, and seems to refuse to acknowledge that it wasn't a normal experience, nor widely experienced by others. She refuses to acknowledge that the majority of christianity today is not like that, only the minority seems to matter. Yet when talking about the minority of muslims that run around killing people for their religion, she vehemently defends the majority as not being like them. Why she can't seem to do the same for christians is a mystery.

I don't define Christianity by the experiences I had as a child. I merely point out why Christianity isn't my path. Why should I promote what failed me?

I have been quite clear about which Christians bother me and which ones I appreciate.
I fail to understand if what I post doesn't apply to you why you're offended by it. Are you really of the opinion that NO Christan hates gays? Are you of the view that I have no right to talk about my life experiences?

I work with Christians and get along with them quite well. I have Christian clients. I don't condemn the teachings of Christ, I think they are beautiful. I included a poem by a Christian writer because I thought Christians would like it. I didn't realize you would think I was preaching and be offended by it.

Christians are the majority religion in the US. I think they expect to be universally respected because there are so many of them.

I really appreciate the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, Quakers, and most of the Christians I know. I don't appreciate the Church in Las Vegas that supported Martin Ssempas campaign to execute gays in Uganda. I don't support Westboro Baptist Church, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Coral Ridge Ministeries, Pat Robertson.

What you can expect from me is courtesy. I appreciate you. I don't care that you happen to be a Christian. I feel that we connect on a heart level. It may not feel the same to you.

I don't call anyone names. When someone attributes something to me that I never said I point it out and untrue.

It seems my view is not popular or welcome in the religion forum. I accept that.

I could make a long list of all the Christians on this forum who I like and respect. It would surprise you.

So, why wasn't it Marie's right to talk about her life experiences as a Christian and share them with you? Why were you offended and felt disrespected to the point that she offered you an apology when all she did was share her views? Why is it okay for you, but not for her?

I don't know why you insist on inserting yourself in the middle of something between Marie and me that I feel is resolved.

Marie did not just offer her experiences as a Christian. She told me that she as a Christian does not respect other people's spiritual paths, and she specifically called my committment to Buddhist practice to question. She had no right to do that. I didn't ask for her spiritual advice. I am not interested in taking up the path of Jesus, just because Marie can't help herself from shouting it from the rooftops.

I accepted her apology. I have dropped it. Why haven't you?

 

[emilynghiem]

The issue is respecting the same civil laws of "religious freedom, due process, and equal protections" that the person is invoking in the first place. Legal or religious abuse happens when the laws, either secular or religious, are interpreted or executed in ways that violate the equal civil rights of others. When these violations block due process and defense, then the offenses are hidden, which makes it more difficult to correct and police. The solution is to require citizens, corporations or other organizations to sign agreements to respect civil laws on equal protections, democratic due process, and redressing grievances. I would even go further, and require adhering to principles in the Code of Ethics for Govt Service in addition to the Bill of Rights and Fourteenth Amendment, so no one abuses the law or collective resources or authority to violate the civil rights of anyone else equally protected.
But everyone shares equally in responsibility for enforcement of laws and protections in order to qualify for the same, and agrees in advance to mediation to determine financially responsibility for restitution instead of burdening other taxpayers for the cost of damages from unresolved conflicts or abuses.

ethics-commission.net

 

[Sky Dancer]

preaching or education?

there is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs...i dont see sky trying to force Buddhism on anyone...as much as sharing her beliefs..which there should be plenty of room for....she is in the r & e forum....

if you dont wanna read it dont....but dont attack someone for sharing....

But that's exactly what she did to Marie earlier in this thread.

I don't consider telling Marie that her post hurt and offended me attacking her. I did not call her names. I did not attack her as a Christian. I merely told her how her post affected me.

Funny, how you say you're my friend, but when I'm hurt you could care less. It's looking like Marie is your friend and I am not.

That's ok. You have the right to befriend whoever you like.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Skydancer and Newbie:
I just had an issue come up with a friend of mine similar to this!

1. he thought I would mislead people to believe in or worship Science or Buddha instead of following God through Christ and the Bible
2. I told him not to bear false witness against Buddha or Buddhists, by wrongly assuming they are either not teaching or following "true Wisdom" which is also contained in the Bible
I cited many scriptures that present the very Wisdom Buddha taught and Buddhists respect
So those are part of the Gentiles and natural laws that I believe Jesus fulfills and governs, in a separate fold of the same flock. (Many atheists or nontheists fall under natural laws as well, which I believe Jesus fulfills as both human and God, natural and divine laws.)

I believe these are old issues that keep coming up again and again
until they are addressed and established "once and for all"

If you would like to participate in establishing a formal agreement on what is the role or relationship between Buddhism and Christianity, I am happy to follow up on a separate thread, a different website such as sanctuaryforum, or start a whole other website or webgroup to form a public consensus on this issue.

I am tired of having the same things come up over and over.
I would rather resolve them once and for all where the truth is
established by agreement, and any misperceptions or errors can be corrected in turn!

Thank you and I do think this is why it keeps coming up.
It has not been established formally, so the issues and questions
will come back again and again. I get tired of it, too.

Many people have resolved this in any NUMBER of ways.
So why not put that together and not repeat it over and over.

Thank you both
Sorry if I interject as I believe you had resolved it already

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Newby]

preaching or education?

there is nothing wrong with sharing your beliefs...i dont see sky trying to force Buddhism on anyone...as much as sharing her beliefs..which there should be plenty of room for....she is in the r & e forum....

if you dont wanna read it dont....but dont attack someone for sharing....

But that's exactly what she did to Marie earlier in this thread.

I don't consider telling Marie that her post hurt and offended me attacking her. I did not call her names. I did not attack her as a Christian. I merely told her how her post affected me.

Funny, how you say you're my friend, but when I'm hurt you could care less. It's looking like Marie is your friend and I am not.

That's ok. You have the right to befriend whoever you like.

Marie did nothing but join into the conversation, and you were 'offended' by what she had to say without reason, whenever she was just trying to share her experiences as a christian with you. As I said, apparently you're allowed to share, but others are not. And it has nothing to do with being a friend or not being a friend, I just call them as I see them. I'm not a 'touchy/feely' person, and I don't see the point of walking on egg shells because someone 'might be offended'. We're all adults here, we're here to discuss, so anyone should be free to say whatever they want. Marie said nothing offensive at all.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But that's exactly what she did to Marie earlier in this thread.

I don't consider telling Marie that her post hurt and offended me attacking her. I did not call her names. I did not attack her as a Christian. I merely told her how her post affected me.

Funny, how you say you're my friend, but when I'm hurt you could care less. It's looking like Marie is your friend and I am not.

That's ok. You have the right to befriend whoever you like.

Marie did nothing but join into the conversation, and you were 'offended' by what she had to say without reason, whenever she was just trying to share her experiences as a christian with you. As I said, apparently you're allowed to share, but others are not. And it has nothing to do with being a friend or not being a friend, I just call them as I see them. I'm not a 'touchy/feely' person, and I don't see the point of walking on egg shells because someone 'might be offended'. We're all adults here, we're here to discuss, so anyone should be free to say whatever they want. Marie said nothing offensive at all.

1. You don't accept that Marie's post was hurtful and deeply offensive to me.

2. I don't care if someone shares their religion. I care when they question mine and tell me to take up theirs.

3. If you don't want to be friends that's ok

 

[AllieBaba]

Lol...yet another person has *attacked* Sky by challenging her and asking her questions she doesn't want to answer.

Tsk, tsk.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I

Dear Skydancer and Newbie:
I just had an issue come up with a friend of mine similar to this!

1. he thought I would mislead people to believe in or worship Science or Buddha instead of following God through Christ and the Bible
2. I told him not to bear false witness against Buddha or Buddhists, by wrongly assuming they are either not teaching or following "true Wisdom" which is also contained in the Bible
I cited many scriptures that present the very Wisdom Buddha taught and Buddhists respect
So those are part of the Gentiles and natural laws that I believe Jesus fulfills and governs, in a separate fold of the same flock. (Many atheists or nontheists fall under natural laws as well, which I believe Jesus fulfills as both human and God, natural and divine laws.)

I believe these are old issues that keep coming up again and again
until they are addressed and established "once and for all"

If you would like to participate in establishing a formal agreement on what is the role or relationship between Buddhism and Christianity, I am happy to follow up on a separate thread, a different website such as sanctuaryforum, or start a whole other website or webgroup to form a public consensus on this issue.

I am tired of having the same things come up over and over.
I would rather resolve them once and for all where the truth is
established by agreement, and any misperceptions or errors can be corrected in turn!

Thank you and I do think this is why it keeps coming up.
It has not been established formally, so the issues and questions
will come back again and again. I get tired of it, too.

Many people have resolved this in any NUMBER of ways.
So why not put that together and not repeat it over and over.

Thank you both
Sorry if I interject as I believe you had resolved it already

Yours truly,
Emily

Emily--

I appreciate the fresh face and your input. It's very wise. I long for a discussion where we can share views free of trying to convince the other their path is wrong.

 

[Newby]

I don't consider telling Marie that her post hurt and offended me attacking her. I did not call her names. I did not attack her as a Christian. I merely told her how her post affected me.

Funny, how you say you're my friend, but when I'm hurt you could care less. It's looking like Marie is your friend and I am not.

That's ok. You have the right to befriend whoever you like.

Marie did nothing but join into the conversation, and you were 'offended' by what she had to say without reason, whenever she was just trying to share her experiences as a christian with you. As I said, apparently you're allowed to share, but others are not. And it has nothing to do with being a friend or not being a friend, I just call them as I see them. I'm not a 'touchy/feely' person, and I don't see the point of walking on egg shells because someone 'might be offended'. We're all adults here, we're here to discuss, so anyone should be free to say whatever they want. Marie said nothing offensive at all.

1. You don't accept that Marie's post was hurtful and deeply offensive to me.

2. I don't care if someone shares their religion. I care when they question mine and tell me to take up theirs.

3. If you don't want to be friends that's ok

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Marie did nothing but join into the conversation, and you were 'offended' by what she had to say without reason, whenever she was just trying to share her experiences as a christian with you. As I said, apparently you're allowed to share, but others are not. And it has nothing to do with being a friend or not being a friend, I just call them as I see them. I'm not a 'touchy/feely' person, and I don't see the point of walking on egg shells because someone 'might be offended'. We're all adults here, we're here to discuss, so anyone should be free to say whatever they want. Marie said nothing offensive at all.

1. You don't accept that Marie's post was hurtful and deeply offensive to me.

2. I don't care if someone shares their religion. I care when they question mine and tell me to take up theirs.

3. If you don't want to be friends that's ok

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness?

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

 

[emilynghiem]

How can you force someone to practice religion? Either they have voluntarily made the decision to follow God, or they haven't. You can't force someone to do that. You can't force people to take care of widow and the fatherless or to keep themselves unspotted from the world.

In fact, it's the very voluntariness of exercising faith that allows the power of God to flow into the lives of the faithful. God won't force his power upon us. It only falls on us through voluntarily exercising faith to keep His commandments.

Dear Avatar: If you look up Jehovah's Witness recovery sites, you will see scores of testimony of people who were compelled by peer pressure, or fear of losing relationships with their family being cut off from them, to go along with things, including denying blood transfusions and letting family members die in order not to disobey or displease God.

Children are especially vulnerable to wanting to please their parents, so this capacity is often abused to force kids to follow beliefs or respect authority even when it is wrong.

Compelling people by guilt or fear may seem like a choice, like an abused woman "hypothetically" has free choice to leave a violent relationship. But when losing contact with one's family or children is used as leverage, people are "forced" to do many things against their true will.

 

[syrenn]

Who the hell is marie if you dont mind my asking?

 

[Newby]

1. You don't accept that Marie's post was hurtful and deeply offensive to me.

2. I don't care if someone shares their religion. I care when they question mine and tell me to take up theirs.

3. If you don't want to be friends that's ok

1. You don't accept that you're the only person here who saw it as 'offensive'.

2. She wasn't telling you to take up hers, and she wasn't questioning yours. She was questioning your lack of peace, which is obvious.

3. If we can't disagree and still be friends, it's certainly not because of how I feel about it Sky.

1. I'm the only one who is Buddhist in the room having a Christian disparage my path and urge me to take up theirs. It's not surprising I'm the only one who felt hurt. You don't seem to care that I was hurt. I accept that.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism. I did not invite to counsel me about when I feel peaceful and when I don't. I don't see Christians being Christ-like all the time either. Why is it you are unable to accept my humanness?

3. Friends don't continually criticize and personally attack each other, nor do they meddle where they haven't been invited. I have no problem with you and I disagreeing about topics. I do object to you attacking me for feeling hurt.

4. Marie and I are over this. I felt hurt, I told her. She apologized. I dropped it. I hold no grudge against Marie.
The difference between you and Marie is that she is sensitive and caring enough to be concerned about my feelings. I appreciate her for that and I respect that her Christian training brings out those qualities in her.

1. She was doing no such thing, she was pointing out the obviousness of your lack of peace.

2. She had no business questioning Buddhism???? Seriously??? But, you're allowed to question christianity all you want?

3. I haven't 'personally attacked' you. You're just never going to change, are you?? Quit attacking me like this, Sky, I really don't appreciate all the disrespect that your post showed, now I'm personally hurt. I really wish you would quit attacking me and telling me where and when I can post. Two can play these games, yes?

She's sensitive and caring enough, yet she 'hurt' you with her sharing of her christian experiences?? Which is it???