CDZ Poverty, what it is between a capitalist society and socialist/communistic society.

[Mr. Friscus]

Is it me or do anti-capitalists always paint the idea of "greed" as just some billionaire hording money...

There's healthy and unhealthy "greed", just as there is a healthy amount of selfishness we all must have, because if you're 100% self-less, you're a walkover and don't exist.

It's good that modest people have the "greed" to want a better life and start small businesses. That's a good thing.

 

[LibertyKid]

Is America providing a high standard of living for it's people? American propagandized and shrunken heads will say so!

And this is problem. America is only a location on this planet that is governed by a Federal constitution providing rights and protections to its population. No where in that document does it state that a "high living standard" is a right.

We the people have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The standards of those have always been the individuals own ability to pursue those rights to their highest ability. America is the land of opportunity, not the land of give me cause I deserve that which I have not earned.

 

[2aguy]

Let's be real, upward mobility has been virtually shut down by the usurous student loan industry.

It has been designed to do just that too. The employers today don't want ambition. They want complete subservience.

Remember, that communism is only ever seriously disgussed where people have been living in deadly slave-like conditions.

As with the rubber plantations of Vietnam.

As with the hacienda system in Latin America.

As with people being wantonly exposed to plague by evil managers who make wagers on who dies first.

1) The student loan industry, and I can appreciate you also see it that way, because that is what it is, is a system developed by mostly Democrats that predictably resulted in disastrous consequences for students/parents and a HUGE win for pockets of the college system in America. Liberalism at it's core is a policy system based on idealism. This system was developed based on an IDEA that "everyone should go to college". The end result was skyrocketing tuition and student housing. Nearly overnight, colleges dramatically increased their housing units to take advantage of the government paying for not only tuition - but housing also. And the profits off of these quad units is astronomical.
2) "Employers don't want ambition" - God that is just stupid. I don't know how else to put it. I would guess you are referring to what they want from the lowest rung of employment... such as a burger flipper. You would be right, they don't need ambition from burger flippers. They just need them to flip the burgers when the beeping tells them to. But in ALL other types of jobs of course they want ambition, but not without a serious work ethic to go along with it.
3) Everything else you say... not sure where you are going with it, or the point.

The burger flipping is the test stage.......if you can't show up on time and manage to flip burgers, you are not going to be a valuable asset to the company........burger flipping is the barest minimum test of attendance and willingness to work.

 

[2aguy]

Is it me or do anti-capitalists always paint the idea of "greed" as just some billionaire hording money...

There's healthy and unhealthy "greed", just as there is a healthy amount of selfishness we all must have, because if you're 100% self-less, you're a walkover and don't exist.

It's good that modest people have the "greed" to want a better life and start small businesses. That's a good thing.

Thomas Sowell explained greed really well...

“People who are forever ready to charge others with “greed” never apply that word to the government. But, if you think the government is never greedy, check out what the government does under the escheat laws and eminent domain.”

~Thomas Sowell

“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”​

― Thomas Sowell, Barbarians inside the Gates and Other Controversial Essays

 

[LibertyKid]

Let's be real, upward mobility has been virtually shut down by the usurous student loan industry.

It has been designed to do just that too. The employers today don't want ambition. They want complete subservience.

Remember, that communism is only ever seriously disgussed where people have been living in deadly slave-like conditions.

As with the rubber plantations of Vietnam.

As with the hacienda system in Latin America.

As with people being wantonly exposed to plague by evil managers who make wagers on who dies first.

1) The student loan industry, and I can appreciate you also see it that way, because that is what it is, is a system developed by mostly Democrats that predictably resulted in disastrous consequences for students/parents and a HUGE win for pockets of the college system in America. Liberalism at it's core is a policy system based on idealism. This system was developed based on an IDEA that "everyone should go to college". The end result was skyrocketing tuition and student housing. Nearly overnight, colleges dramatically increased their housing units to take advantage of the government paying for not only tuition - but housing also. And the profits off of these quad units is astronomical.
2) "Employers don't want ambition" - God that is just stupid. I don't know how else to put it. I would guess you are referring to what they want from the lowest rung of employment... such as a burger flipper. You would be right, they don't need ambition from burger flippers. They just need them to flip the burgers when the beeping tells them to. But in ALL other types of jobs of course they want ambition, but not without a serious work ethic to go along with it.
3) Everything else you say... not sure where you are going with it, or the point.

The burger flipping is the test stage.......if you can't show up on time and manage to flip burgers, you are not going to be a valuable asset to the company........burger flipping is the barest minimum test of attendance and willingness to work.

And those burger flipping jobs were never meant to bring people out of poverty. I'm in my mid 40s and clearly remember those jobs were marketed for the part time high school and college kid. There were also some seniors working to supplement their fixed income. They were always advertised as a way to enter the workforce and gain some skills. Now today, people demand that these franchise owners somehow accommodate the employee's inability or lack of professional progress.

 

[otto105]

Let's be real, upward mobility has been virtually shut down by the usurous student loan industry.

It has been designed to do just that too. The employers today don't want ambition. They want complete subservience.

Remember, that communism is only ever seriously disgussed where people have been living in deadly slave-like conditions.

As with the rubber plantations of Vietnam.

As with the hacienda system in Latin America.

As with people being wantonly exposed to plague by evil managers who make wagers on who dies first.

1) The student loan industry, and I can appreciate you also see it that way, because that is what it is, is a system developed by mostly Democrats that predictably resulted in disastrous consequences for students/parents and a HUGE win for pockets of the college system in America. Liberalism at it's core is a policy system based on idealism. This system was developed based on an IDEA that "everyone should go to college". The end result was skyrocketing tuition and student housing. Nearly overnight, colleges dramatically increased their housing units to take advantage of the government paying for not only tuition - but housing also. And the profits off of these quad units is astronomical.
2) "Employers don't want ambition" - God that is just stupid. I don't know how else to put it. I would guess you are referring to what they want from the lowest rung of employment... such as a burger flipper. You would be right, they don't need ambition from burger flippers. They just need them to flip the burgers when the beeping tells them to. But in ALL other types of jobs of course they want ambition, but not without a serious work ethic to go along with it.
3) Everything else you say... not sure where you are going with it, or the point.

The burger flipping is the test stage.......if you can't show up on time and manage to flip burgers, you are not going to be a valuable asset to the company........burger flipping is the barest minimum test of attendance and willingness to work.

And those burger flipping jobs were never meant to bring people out of poverty. I'm in my mid 40s and clearly remember those jobs were marketed for the part time high school and college kid. There were also some seniors working to supplement their fixed income. They were always advertised as a way to enter the workforce and gain some skills. Now today, people demand that these franchise owners somehow accommodate the employee's inability or lack of professional progress.

Is it not the market paying those wages?

How is it that industry can pay so low wages that people they seek to employ can’t use those wages to provide them basic needs?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

How is it that industry can pay so low wages that people they seek to employ can’t use those wages to provide them basic needs?

Because the market is compromised by Chinese slave labor and Mexican almost slave labor, not to mention Vietnamese and others.

 

[sartre play]

Those are not our choices.
We have gone crazy, winning some angry imaginary war. over rational thinking.

 

[Mac-7]

Let's be real, upward mobility has been virtually shut down by the usurous student loan industry

Not true

But assuming you think only sit down jobs that require a degree are important then blame the greedy colleges for charging so much

 

[otto105]

How is it that industry can pay so low wages that people they seek to employ can’t use those wages to provide them basic needs?

Because the market is compromised by Chinese slave labor and Mexican almost slave labor, not to mention Vietnamese and others.

How so?

 

[emilynghiem]

I wrote this in another thread, but decided it needs it's own.

Poverty:

In Socialism/Communism, poverty is a state of existence at birth. You are either born in poverty, where you will stay. Or you are born among the elite, where you will stay. Examples of this fact, exist throughout history, all over the globe.

In a capitalist society, poverty is really two different states:
1) A temporary, escape-able condition (such as a business closure) or
2) A result of non participation in opportunities afforded to you.

Dear iamwhatiseem
In both cases, people are born in family conditions where parents either do or do not have spiritual and financial knowledge to teach their kids by example to fish for themselves.

The successful models for microlending provide training so people can become home and business owners while learning and getting mentorship to follow business plans.

This system of mentorship and microlending to teach sustainable self reliance works in both poor and richer countries.

The process is both spiritual growth and practical experience and development.

Everyone anywhere can set this up.

Www.grameenfoundation.org
Www.ithacahours.com
Www.paceuniversal.com
Www.tbt.org www.pdmpwebsite.org

 

[Cecilie1200]

There is confusion because right wingers call every useful function of government "Commienist"

No, we don't. We call the Communist things you left-loons try to do with government "Communist", and then you left-loons dishonestly try to pretend that we think that about all government.

 

[otto105]

No, we don't. We call the Communist things you left-loons try to do with government "Communist", and then you left-loons dishonestly try to pretend that we think that about all government.

Like trash pick up by local governments? Police? Fire?

Or federal programs like Social Security and Medicare?

 

[sartre play]

All most nothing fits neatly into two choices, what the left wants or what the right wants. That's political propaganda. IT IS possible to find some balance, BUT no one is willing to give up and inch of ground. NO political party or person has all the answers.

 

[otto105]

All most nothing fits neatly into two choices, what the left wants or what the right wants. That's political propaganda. IT IS possible to find some balance, BUT no one is willing to give up and inch of ground. NO political party or person has all the answers.

I disagree with your assertion of no one wants to get any ground.

President Obama offered republics to find common ground. It wasn't accepted.

President Biden has offered to work with republics pols and they have refused.

Democratic pols worked with GWB to pass several pieces of legislation, first being No Child left behind and Medicare Expansion.

What have the republic pols worked on with a Democratic President since Clinton and NAFTA in the 1990's.

 

[Cecilie1200]

All most nothing fits neatly into two choices, what the left wants or what the right wants. That's political propaganda. IT IS possible to find some balance, BUT no one is willing to give up and inch of ground. NO political party or person has all the answers.

You are mistaken. The Republicans who nominally represent the right give up ground all the time; that's how we got into the ridiculous mess that is today's United States, and how Donald Trump ended up getting elected.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Poverty is anything under 50 thousand dollars per year annual income in america today.

That is hilarious!

Try this and you will quickly learn the poverty level is much lower mostly under the $20,000 level

2021 Federal Poverty Level (FPL) Calculator​

 

[Colin norris]

I wrote this in another thread, but decided it needs it's own.

Poverty:

In Socialism/Communism, poverty is a state of existence at birth. You are either born in poverty, where you will stay. Or you are born among the elite, where you will stay. Examples of this fact, exist throughout history, all over the globe.

In a capitalist society, poverty is really two different states:
1) A temporary, escape-able condition (such as a business closure) or
2) A result of non participation in opportunities afforded to you.

Fancy a Republican talking about social justice. Don't make me vomit.

 

[Sunsettommy]

No. The nation with the largest economy can’t.

Again you make false unsupported claims, I showed this decisively in a different thread that America does trade with Cuba, it is admittedly less, but it is trading along with more than 30 plus nations.

POST 824 proved you made provable false claims as there is a long list of nations trading with Cuba posted into the open, you never disputed it.

Then you moved the goal post, then I posted the year 2000 trade data showing that Cuba traded with over 30 nations.

From the 1975 NYT article is this evidence that Cuba has never been fully embargoed:

But the lifting of the embargo will reintroduce a certain amount of uniformity within the O.A.S.

Seven Latin‐American countries have maintained diplomatic and trade relations with Havana in defiance of the sanctions. They are Argentina, Colombia, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago and Venezuela.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

The big difference between the two is that as far as we know, under every Communist system it ends up in a dictatorship that murders/jails its citizens while the populace starves in poverty and eats dirt and grass.