- Moderator
- #121
Of course not, the notion is nonsense.So, a state must remain free from the tyranny of Washington politicians by arming itself.....In other words, if Mississippi wants to re-establish slave ownership, and the Feds object, Mississippians are armed andready to fight off those US army tanks and jets
The Second Amendment doesn’t ‘trump’ the First.
A minority of Americans can’t subjectively decide that the Federal government has suddenly become ‘tyrannical’ and ‘take up arms’ against the Federal government, contrary to the will of the majority.
The people have the First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances through the political or judicial process, and the government cannot be ‘overthrown’ by force absent the consent of the majority of the people.
That’s why the Heller Court ruled that the Second Amendment right was an individual – not collective – right, and not dependent upon the militia.
Citizens have the individual right to possess firearms pursuant to the right of self-defense, where the states may not seek to prohibit citizens from indeed possessing firearms.
The Second Amendment right allows citizens to protect themselves from lawlessness, violence, and bodily harm through criminal acts, not ‘overthrow’ the government.
The 1st amendment (especially in conjunction with the 2nd amendment) secures the people's right to "assemble" and to form "militias" to maintain the "security" of their free States.
1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
2. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
No, the First Amendment allows people to assemble to petition the government.
The whole point of that clause is so people can tell the government what they think.
The Presser case in the 1800s didn't say that men had a right to assemble armed together as a military force. This makes no sense.
The Founding Fathers had the contradiction of they wanted the people to be able to overthrow a bad government but didn't want good government to be overthrown.
ALL MILITIAS that are in the Constitution have officers APPOINTED BY THE STATES. Without a state appointed officer, the militia is not the militia in the US constitution and has no protections whatsoever.
Of course it's my bed time and I don';t have time for a lengthy debate on this but, you are incorrect when you read the BOR's to conclude that we "the people" only have a right to assemble to petition the government. (you are wrong when you conclude that we don't have the right to form militias)
You acknowledge the fact that the founders "wanted the people to be able to overthrow a bad government" and I appreciate that. But! To then suggest that that same "bad government" gets to "appoint the officers" for the militias that are being formed to overthrow that "bad government?"
That is ridiculous.
I think you might want to think that through again.
Well, I didn't say the people only have the right to assemble to petition the government. I said this was the reason it was in the Constitution. Just because something isn't protected by a constitutional right, doesn't mean you can't do it.
The point being that the STATES appoint the officers, not the Federal government. Thereby stating that if the Feds have overreached their position, that the States are the ones who are basically going to organize the militias.
The States were the ones with the foresight, not the founders.
In other words, the Founders didn't belong to any states? Why didn't we then have 13 little separate countries?...Gee, let;s keep this up and we can ALL rewrite history to best suit our biases.
We did, we now have 50, I guess you don't understand the concept of a federation. It was the Sovereign States that created the feds, they agreed to cede limited sovereignty to the feds and granted them powers to perform the functions agreed to by the States, the 9th and 10th amendments were mere reinforcements of this concept and were also insisted upon by the STATES. The anti-federalist lost at the convention but have been granted a belated victory by the very court systems the federalist created, thus we have the feds consistently encroaching more and more on State sovereignty. We now live in a post constitutional America and we are the worse for it.