Polygamy

[Luddly Neddite]

The one's on tv are more geared towards the extreme branch of Mormonism.

I don't have a problem with polygamy. I'm not interested, but, you know, whatever. I have a problem with the cult specifically because you are looking at coercive elements here. I do support the two partner legal relationship just because it's about division of property.

The Mormon Religion does not condone support or accept polygamy. And has not since at least 1890.

Actually, it was the US government that outlawed it. That's why Mitten's family moved to Mexico.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The one's on tv are more geared towards the extreme branch of Mormonism.

I don't have a problem with polygamy. I'm not interested, but, you know, whatever. I have a problem with the cult specifically because you are looking at coercive elements here. I do support the two partner legal relationship just because it's about division of property.

The Mormon Religion does not condone support or accept polygamy. And has not since at least 1890.

I am aware of this. And, yet, the FLDS exists. Hence, extreme branch.

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've long wondered why the government has any say in what types of marriage exist. Gay, straight, polygamy or polyandry should all be allowed as long as all parties involved sign on the dotted line.

However Roudy makes a great point and we do see child brides and child abuse in societies that allow polygamy, whether it's the extreme Mormon or Islam.

I think you will see more areas of abuse for several reasons.
Selfishness will abound and be visible in marriages.
In a typical marriage, the woman puts the husband in debt. When there is more than one party involved, that becomes dangerous.
Marriage will become a form of prostitution when people shack up to be taken care of instead of contribute towards the marriage.
If you think two people fighting is bad, try seven on one.
It should not be permitted for the reason of abuse.

What world do you live in?

I am continually amazed at what some of you come up with. It really is like you're from another planet.

Glad I don't live there.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've long wondered why the government has any say in what types of marriage exist. Gay, straight, polygamy or polyandry should all be allowed as long as all parties involved sign on the dotted line.

However Roudy makes a great point and we do see child brides and child abuse in societies that allow polygamy, whether it's the extreme Mormon or Islam.

Because of property.

Actually, its the church that is not required. You don't need a preacher OR a judge.
In most states, you can get your license, declare yourselves married, file with the courthouse and you're legally married.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The Mormon Religion does not condone support or accept polygamy. And has not since at least 1890.

I am aware of this. And, yet, the FLDS exists. Hence, extreme branch.

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

That's where religions come from, isn't it?

What else does it take to form a religion?

 

[Disir]

The Mormon Religion does not condone support or accept polygamy. And has not since at least 1890.

I am aware of this. And, yet, the FLDS exists. Hence, extreme branch.

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

That isn't how it went down. First of all, even though LDS abandoned polygamy that in no, way shape or form means that everyone said........k, that's all folks. There was a huge debate between the First Manifesto and the Second Manifesto and when the excommunications began that didn't mean that communication between the members stopped. It definitely destroyed families. It was an excruciatingly painful time period. So, they didn't steal anything and pull it out of their behinds. Some carried on in the same tradition and even maintained ties with LDS members and family. Now, of course, LDS wants to distance themselves as having this complete cut since they lost the Reynolds case.

 

[thebrucebeat]

I am aware of this. And, yet, the FLDS exists. Hence, extreme branch.

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

That isn't how it went down. First of all, even though LDS abandoned polygamy that in no, way shape or form means that everyone said........k, that's all folks. There was a huge debate between the First Manifesto and the Second Manifesto and when the excommunications began that didn't mean that communication between the members stopped. It definitely destroyed families. It was an excruciatingly painful time period. So, they didn't steal anything and pull it out of their behinds. Some carried on in the same tradition and even maintained ties with LDS members and family. Now, of course, LDS wants to distance themselves as having this complete cut since they lost the Reynolds case.

LDS has always miraculously changed their theology when faced with legal ramifications for their former "deeply held" beliefs.
They abandonded polygamy when the U.S. Army was about to destroy them.

"Polygamy was probably a significant factor in the Utah War of 1857 and 1858, given the Republican attempts to paint Democratic President James Buchanan as weak in his opposition to both polygamy and slavery. In 1862, the United States Congress passed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories.[3] In spite of the law, Mormons continued to practice polygamy, believing that it was protected by the First Amendment. In 1879, in Reynolds v. United States,[5] the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Morrill Act, stating: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."[3]

In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy.[6] Although this Manifesto did not dissolve existing plural marriages, relations with the United States markedly improved after 1890, such that Utah was admitted as a U.S. state. After the Manifesto, some Mormons continued to enter into polygamous marriages, but these eventually stopped in 1904 when church president Joseph F. Smith disavowed polygamy before Congress and issued a "Second Manifesto", calling for all plural marriages in the church to cease."

Ah, the purity of faith.

 

[Disir]

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

That isn't how it went down. First of all, even though LDS abandoned polygamy that in no, way shape or form means that everyone said........k, that's all folks. There was a huge debate between the First Manifesto and the Second Manifesto and when the excommunications began that didn't mean that communication between the members stopped. It definitely destroyed families. It was an excruciatingly painful time period. So, they didn't steal anything and pull it out of their behinds. Some carried on in the same tradition and even maintained ties with LDS members and family. Now, of course, LDS wants to distance themselves as having this complete cut since they lost the Reynolds case.

LDS has always miraculously changed their theology when faced with legal ramifications for their former "deeply held" beliefs.
They abandonded polygamy when the U.S. Army was about to destroy them.

"Polygamy was probably a significant factor in the Utah War of 1857 and 1858, given the Republican attempts to paint Democratic President James Buchanan as weak in his opposition to both polygamy and slavery. In 1862, the United States Congress passed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories.[3] In spite of the law, Mormons continued to practice polygamy, believing that it was protected by the First Amendment. In 1879, in Reynolds v. United States,[5] the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Morrill Act, stating: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."[3]

In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy.[6] Although this Manifesto did not dissolve existing plural marriages, relations with the United States markedly improved after 1890, such that Utah was admitted as a U.S. state. After the Manifesto, some Mormons continued to enter into polygamous marriages, but these eventually stopped in 1904 when church president Joseph F. Smith disavowed polygamy before Congress and issued a "Second Manifesto", calling for all plural marriages in the church to cease."

Ah, the purity of faith.

So, I found some gold plates in the back yard.............

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That isn't how it went down. First of all, even though LDS abandoned polygamy that in no, way shape or form means that everyone said........k, that's all folks. There was a huge debate between the First Manifesto and the Second Manifesto and when the excommunications began that didn't mean that communication between the members stopped. It definitely destroyed families. It was an excruciatingly painful time period. So, they didn't steal anything and pull it out of their behinds. Some carried on in the same tradition and even maintained ties with LDS members and family. Now, of course, LDS wants to distance themselves as having this complete cut since they lost the Reynolds case.

LDS has always miraculously changed their theology when faced with legal ramifications for their former "deeply held" beliefs.
They abandonded polygamy when the U.S. Army was about to destroy them.

"Polygamy was probably a significant factor in the Utah War of 1857 and 1858, given the Republican attempts to paint Democratic President James Buchanan as weak in his opposition to both polygamy and slavery. In 1862, the United States Congress passed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories.[3] In spite of the law, Mormons continued to practice polygamy, believing that it was protected by the First Amendment. In 1879, in Reynolds v. United States,[5] the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Morrill Act, stating: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."[3]

In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy.[6] Although this Manifesto did not dissolve existing plural marriages, relations with the United States markedly improved after 1890, such that Utah was admitted as a U.S. state. After the Manifesto, some Mormons continued to enter into polygamous marriages, but these eventually stopped in 1904 when church president Joseph F. Smith disavowed polygamy before Congress and issued a "Second Manifesto", calling for all plural marriages in the church to cease."

Ah, the purity of faith.

So, I found some gold plates in the back yard.............

Well except there were witnesses to the plates, in fact some of them eventually left the Church and NEVER retracted their statements.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

My own belief is that anything that takes place between consenting adults is their business. I haven't watched much of the so-called "reality" shows about multiple wives but what I have seen is that there are a lot of illegitimate children caught in the middle and I wonder just what their future is likely to be.

Then there are the true nutters like these men -
10 Creepy Polygamous Prophets - Listverse

Obviously, since it is not legal, polygamous "marriages" are not really marriages at all.

So, what do people here think? Would it be better for both the women and the children if polygamy were made legal?

Thoughts?

It is because of immorality that God made marriage between one man and one woman.

God didn't make marriage. It's a social construct created by people and it existed in cultures all around the world long before they ever heard of the Christian God.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So if I took the approved bible of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, then stole parts of their religious processes and then claimed I was the Fundamentalist Roman Catholic church would that make me a catholic?

That isn't how it went down. First of all, even though LDS abandoned polygamy that in no, way shape or form means that everyone said........k, that's all folks. There was a huge debate between the First Manifesto and the Second Manifesto and when the excommunications began that didn't mean that communication between the members stopped. It definitely destroyed families. It was an excruciatingly painful time period. So, they didn't steal anything and pull it out of their behinds. Some carried on in the same tradition and even maintained ties with LDS members and family. Now, of course, LDS wants to distance themselves as having this complete cut since they lost the Reynolds case.

LDS has always miraculously changed their theology when faced with legal ramifications for their former "deeply held" beliefs.
They abandonded polygamy when the U.S. Army was about to destroy them.

"Polygamy was probably a significant factor in the Utah War of 1857 and 1858, given the Republican attempts to paint Democratic President James Buchanan as weak in his opposition to both polygamy and slavery. In 1862, the United States Congress passed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories.[3] In spite of the law, Mormons continued to practice polygamy, believing that it was protected by the First Amendment. In 1879, in Reynolds v. United States,[5] the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Morrill Act, stating: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."[3]

In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy.[6] Although this Manifesto did not dissolve existing plural marriages, relations with the United States markedly improved after 1890, such that Utah was admitted as a U.S. state. After the Manifesto, some Mormons continued to enter into polygamous marriages, but these eventually stopped in 1904 when church president Joseph F. Smith disavowed polygamy before Congress and issued a "Second Manifesto", calling for all plural marriages in the church to cease."

Ah, the purity of faith.

Let me get this right, in 1857-58 the Church was so threatened that they waited 32 years to change their religious policy? Is that your claim?

The Church has a Profit that leads the Church and receives direct guidance from God. The Bible specifically says that we should give unto Caesar those things that belong to him. God simply informed the Church that it was time to give unto the US Government that which they had the power over.

 

[Disir]

LDS has always miraculously changed their theology when faced with legal ramifications for their former "deeply held" beliefs.
They abandonded polygamy when the U.S. Army was about to destroy them.

"Polygamy was probably a significant factor in the Utah War of 1857 and 1858, given the Republican attempts to paint Democratic President James Buchanan as weak in his opposition to both polygamy and slavery. In 1862, the United States Congress passed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories.[3] In spite of the law, Mormons continued to practice polygamy, believing that it was protected by the First Amendment. In 1879, in Reynolds v. United States,[5] the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Morrill Act, stating: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."[3]

In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued a Manifesto that officially terminated the practice of polygamy.[6] Although this Manifesto did not dissolve existing plural marriages, relations with the United States markedly improved after 1890, such that Utah was admitted as a U.S. state. After the Manifesto, some Mormons continued to enter into polygamous marriages, but these eventually stopped in 1904 when church president Joseph F. Smith disavowed polygamy before Congress and issued a "Second Manifesto", calling for all plural marriages in the church to cease."

Ah, the purity of faith.

So, I found some gold plates in the back yard.............

Well except there were witnesses to the plates, in fact some of them eventually left the Church and NEVER retracted their statements.

Yes....Did the Eleven Witnesses Actually See the Gold Plates? | Mormonism Research Ministry

 

[PostmodernProph]

I was the last person to have the plates....I melted them down and sold the gold as bullion.....

 

[DriftingSand]

My own belief is that anything that takes place between consenting adults is their business. I haven't watched much of the so-called "reality" shows about multiple wives but what I have seen is that there are a lot of illegitimate children caught in the middle and I wonder just what their future is likely to be.

Then there are the true nutters like these men -
10 Creepy Polygamous Prophets - Listverse

Obviously, since it is not legal, polygamous "marriages" are not really marriages at all.

So, what do people here think? Would it be better for both the women and the children if polygamy were made legal?

Thoughts?

It is because of immorality that God made marriage between one man and one woman.

Except of course in the beginning he did no such thing.

You can hardly get more to the "beginning" than this:

Genesis 2:24, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

The second chapter of the very first book of the Bible. Yup ... marriage between a man and a woman was established way, way back when.

 

[Disir]

I was the last person to have the plates....I melted them down and sold the gold as bullion.....

And I used it to make soup.