POLL: Trump indictment day for stealing classified documents?

[Skylar]

So Democrats now deny the president has the ability to declassify documents?

Trump could have declassified documents. But the evidence indicates he didn't.

Mulveney, Bolton and Kelly all confirm that there was no standing order to declassify everything sent to Mar-a-lago.

The recording reported by the NY Times and CNN regarding Trump and his lamenting about security clearance to view documents appear to be made by Margo Martin in July of 2021. A full year before the raid on Mar-a-lago. But after NARA had sought the document's return.

 

[Skylar]

There was supposedly evidence “actually” linking Trump and Russia. That turned out to be a massive steaming pile of shit. I suspect that the “reported” recordings are of equal value. None.

The recording is reportedly from July 2021, recorded by one of his aides. It was meeting to about a memoir for Mark Meadows, with the conversation recorded by Margo Martin. Trump was bragging about some of the documents he had brought with him from Mar-a-lago, including one compiled by General Milley about an attack on Iran.

This conversation apparently occurred in Bedminster New Jersey.

Its been reported from multiple sources, is extremely specific, and Trump lost his shit in a mad all caps typing screed when it was reported.

Chances are, it exists.

Trump doesn't deny the conversation occured or was recorded, nor does Trump's lawyers James Trusty. James Trusty refused to answer when asked if Trump had declassified the documents cited in the conversation in the recording.

That's not good.

If reports on the recording are accurate, it cleanly eliminates any defense that Trump didn't know that aides had packed away such docs. He not only would have known, but he would have had it in his possession, taken it across state lines, and bragged about having it.

It could be much worse. As apparently investigators took ALL of the book interview recordings. Not just the one from July 2021 in NJ.

 

[Skylar]

"The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said"

You don't need to lament about your power to declassify docs post presidency...if the doc is already declassified.

And if the doc wasn't declassified, that means there was no standing order to declassify docs. There can't be a blanket declassification order AND classified documents.

Its one or the other, mutually exclusive.

And if the recording is accurate, Trump confirms that it was classified docs. Eliminating his standing declassification claims.

 

[BackAgain]

The recording is reportedly from July 2021,

….

I didn’t ask. I read it when it first was reported.

So, let’s get back to the point:

Claims about Trump frequently turn out to be pure fantasy. Why would I place stock in this one?

 

[Skylar]

….

I didn’t ask. I read it when it first was reported.

So, let’s get back to the point:

Claims about Trump frequently turn out to be pure fantasy. Why would I place stock in this one?

Your participation here is really quite notional. You're committed to ignoring the reports. These posts are about discussing what you're ignoring.

The reports are specific, consistent, and are being reported by multiple sources.

No one cares if you asked. No one cares if you ignore them. You're simply not relevant to any part of this legal process. Your sole function is as a vehicle for outlining the reports.

 

[BackAgain]

Your participation here is really quite notional.

No. It’s real. I am willing to ask a hypothetical question, now and then, all the same.

You're committed to ignoring the reports.

False. Can’t you read? I’m not ignoring them. I already read it. My point is obvious. On what basis does this new story deserve credibility?

These posts are about discussing what you're ignoring.

I am. I ask for a third time: why should this new report be given any credence?

And you refusing to believe that such recordings exist is utterly irrelevant to the case against Trump.

I haven’t refused. I’ve asked questions.

 

[Skylar]

No. It’s real. I am willing to ask a hypothetical question, now and then, all the same.

Nope. You've committed to ignoring the reports. That's the end of your inquiry.

Your sole purpose in this conversation is as a vehicle for me to describe what you're ignoring:

Reports of recordings by Margo Martin of Trump discuss the security clearance necessary to view documents in his possession in July of 2021. Recordings reportedly in the possession of investigators into Trump's handling of classified docs.

No one cares if you asked. No one cares if you ignore them. It won't matter in Jack's investigation either way.

 

[Skylar]

How did the public become aware that classified docs were found to be among Biden’s documents?
Oh yes. His own people found them while searching for any classified material. They then voluntarily and immediately contacted NARA to arrange their return.

Exactly what Pence did as well.

Exactly what someone with no criminal intent would do.

Now, how did the public first hear of Trump’s classified materials?

Only after NARA had been after him to return them for quite some time. It escalated from there.


You honestly see no difference at all?

And of course Trump lied about the docs, both before and after they were seized. He compelled his lawyers to lie in affidavits. With reports of Trump having rehersals to move the doc before they were seized. And a 'flood' that destroyed all the recordings in the time frame the investigators were looking into.

 

[Skylar]

Not fake news. Trump has claimed in public that he declassified them. Did he or didn't he? We don't know.

What isn't fake news is that when asked by Judge Dearie if that was his claim in a legal proceeding, he (through his lawyers) refused to make the claim.

WW

Yeah. And when Trump's lawyer was asked if the documents discussed in the reported recording seized by investigators were declassified.....his lawyer refused to answer then too.

That's not good.

 

[BackAgain]

Nope. You've committed to ignoring the reports. That's the end of your inquiry.

False. You just expressed a petty biased opinion as if it was a “fact.” You’re wrong, too. My commitment is to the truth. If you’re nice, I’ll introduce you.

Your sole purpose in this conversation is as a vehicle for me to describe what you're ignoring:

False. See above.

Reports of a recording by Margo Martin of Trump discuss the security clearance necessary to view classified documents in his possession. Recordings reportedly in the possession of investigators into Trump's handling of classified docs.

Not ignoring anything. I am more sort of indifferent. And, overall, I question the story. Literally. You are committed to defending it as “truth” despite not knowing if it’s true or false.

No one cares if you asked.

“They” may care more than you know or claim to know. Once again, you’re exposed as “Skyler Makes Shit Up on the Fly”

No one cares if you ignore them.

Translation: You, “Skylar,” are arguing as a spokesmen for others. You don’t even qualify to speak for yourself.

It won't matter in Jack's investigation either way.

Irrelevant?

But, again, your vapid skills at “thinking” lead you too easily astray. The discussion between us is (and continues to be) made clear in one question:

You, Skye, have failed to address my initial question. “Why would anyone choose to believe this latest report of unsourced hearsay?” (Ok. I rephrased it there. But, that’s ok. The bolded version above is clearer.)

 

[Skylar]

Not ignoring anything. I am more sort of indifferent. And, overall, I question the story. Literally. You are committed to defending it as “truth” despite not knowing if it’s true or false.

No one cares if you asked. No one cares if you're indifferent. No one cares if you ignore the reports.

Your purpose as a vehicle to describe what you're ignoring has been served.

Thank you.

 

[Skylar]

Thanks for your service.

So were all the boxes of "classified" documents that Biden had at multiple locations legal or illegal?
Also consider that at the Penn location the Chinese paid for and had unlimited access.
At least Trump has the argument that he can declassify, plus his docs were under Secret Service protection, while Biden's were unsecure.

Let Pence be your guide. Pence's people found the docs. They informed authorities. Pence cooperated with authorities fully. Within days, the documents had been returned.

No charges were filed against Pence. Biden did the same thing. And its unlikely he'll be charged with anything.

If Trump had done the same as Pence and Biden, he'd be fine.

 

[AntonToo]

Your comments apply to the Biden Crime Family more so than to Trump.

Indictments, convictions, insurections and lost elections apply to Biden?

You are out of your damn mind. Do you even think twice about posting such counter factual garbage?

 

[tahuyaman]

There's a process that has to be followed. And Trump using brain waves as he's playing with himself just won't cut it.

There is no defined process for declassification by a president. If you think there is, you’re wrong.

 

[Skylar]

When is Biden's, whose classified scandal is a helluva lot worse?

As Biden's world is imploding with exposed scandals - criminal evidence, whistleblowers, Hunter's laptop, the fact that both Garland & Wray are corrupt as hell and protecting Biden - indicting Trump (while ignoring Biden) is the only thing big enough to possibly be the distraction Biden desperately needs.

Pence did what Biden did: report the docs to the authorities and return them within days.

And Pence received no charges. Biden probably won't either.

But Trump didn't do any of that. He intentionally took the docs, lied about having them, compelled his lawyers to lie in affidavits, and stonewalled authorities for a year and half.

And that's what's most likely to get Trump in trouble if there are charges. Even Bill Barr acknowledges that if Trump had simply returned the docs, he'd have been fine.

 

[Lakhota]

Pence did what Biden did: report the docs to the authorities and return them within days.

And Pence received no charges. Biden probably won't either.

But Trump didn't do any of that. He intentionally took the docs, lied about having them, compelled his lawyers to lie in affidavits, and stonewalled authorities for a year and half.

And that's what's most likely to get Trump in trouble if there are charges. Even Bill Barr acknowledges that if Trump had simply returned the docs, he'd have been fine.

Trump may still have some classified documents.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Trump may still have some classified documents.

Only Ivana knows for sure.

WW

 

[Skylar]

Trump may still have some classified documents.

Its entirely possible. The document about attack plans on Iran, cited in the reported recording has never been recovered.

And if Trump showed the doc to anyone, that's a potential espionage act violation.

 

[kyzr]

Nope!

Fact check explores presidential authority to declassify

More than two months after FBI agents seized boxes of materials at former President Donald Trump’s Florida residence, known as Mar-a-Lago, the federal investigation continues amid conflicting legal interpretations of a president’s authority

www.americanbar.org

October 24, 2022 TOP LEGAL NEWS OF THE WEEK​

Fact check explores presidential authority to declassify​

Share:
More than two months after FBI agents seized boxes of materials at former President Donald Trump’s Florida residence, known as Mar-a-Lago, the federal investigation continues amid conflicting legal interpretations of a president’s authority to declassify sensitive information.

The federal classification of national security documents is used to control how officials handle information whose release may cause the nation harm.

Trump added to the confusion when he said in an interview with Fox personality Sean Hannity, “There doesn’t have to be a process, as I understand it. ... If you’re the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying it’s declassified. Even by thinking about it.”

Most national security legal experts dismissed the former president’s suggestion that he could declassify documents simply by thinking about it. But as an ABA Legal Fact Check posted Oct. 17 explains, legal guidelines support his contention that presidents have broad authority to formally declassify most documents that are not statutorily protected, while they are in office.

The system of classifying national security documents is largely a bureaucratic process used by the federal government to control how executive branch officials handle information, whose release could cause the country harm. The government has, however, prosecuted cases for both mistaken and deliberate mishandling of information. Under the U.S. Constitution, the president as commander in chief is given broad powers to classify and declassify such information, often through use of executive orders.

Some secrets, such as information related to nuclear weapons, are handled separately under a specific statutory scheme that Congress has adopted under the Atomic Energy Act. Those secrets cannot be automatically declassified by the president alone and require, by law, extensive consultation with executive branch agencies.

In all cases, however, a formal procedure is required so governmental agencies know with certainty what has been declassified and decisions memorialized. A federal appeals court in a 2020 Freedom of Information Act case, New York Times v. CIA, underscored that point: “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures,” the court said.

As the new ABA Legal Fact Check notes, the extent of a president’s legal authority to unilaterally declassify materials — without following formal procedures — has yet to be challenged in court.

What this basically says is that Trump/president can declassify his documents fairly easily, but for the other agencies to declassify the same docs a formal protocol needs to be followed, otherwise the agencies' copies are handled as still "classified":.

 

[kyzr]

Indictments, convictions, insurrections and lost elections apply to Biden?
You are out of your damn mind. Do you even think twice about posting such counter factual garbage?

What indictments? What convictions? What insurrections?
If the Bidens were prosecuted with the same vigor as the FBI Gestapo went after the Trump's there would be more Bidens in jail than Trumps.