Poll to condemn or condone "the violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6"

[Rigby5]

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

You don't have to have guns to have an insurrection.. Many of them did have weapons.. and per Trump's instructions they were there to fight for their country, take back America and overturn the election.

But to implement an insurrection, you have to not just delay the election certification by a day, but prevent it permanently.
Since I did not see any sleeping bags, tents, etc., I saw nothing to indicate this was a permanent attempt, but just headlines grandstanding for a single day. And I see no harm in that. In fact, I kind of like that, even though I totally disagree with their beliefs, values, etc.
In fact, I wish all different opinions and views got similar face time on a regular basis.

Attempted soft coup. It does not have to be successful....

A soft coup would still required evidence of a long term attempt, of which there was none.
A one day delay is not worth shooting someone over.

 

[Rigby5]

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

You don't have to have guns to have an insurrection.. Many of them did have weapons.. and per Trump's instructions they were there to fight for their country, take back America and overturn the election.

Prove it. Are you saying our government is weak? Hahaha

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

Your Sentinel/Revolver link is horse shit.

According to them "unindicted co-conspirators" MUST be FBI and MUST be working AS FBI agents. They have no evidence of either. Zero.

In every case they point to Oath Keepers and Proud Boys etc. who absolutely were involved in the planning and execution of the Insurrection nd ignore the fact that the Oath Keepers in particular has many current and former law enforcement members ACTING ON THEIR OWN in its ranks.

Could some FBI assholes be members of the Oath Keepers? Sure. Is it likely that the FBI as an organization condones this or even approves of that activity? Not likely at all.

There were LE and active military indicted in this incident. Is it likely that the organizations they work for approved of their activity here? No one has even hinted that to be true. Why would you accept an assertion that the FBI would then?

That's ridiculous.

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

Your Sentinel/Revolver link is horse shit.

According to them "unindicted co-conspirators" MUST be FBI and MUST be working AS FBI agents. They have no evidence of either. Zero.

In every case they point to Oath Keepers and Proud Boys etc. who absolutely were involved in the planning and execution of the Insurrection nd ignore the fact that the Oath Keepers in particular has many current and former law enforcement members ACTING ON THEIR OWN in its ranks.

Could some FBI assholes be members of the Oath Keepers? Sure. Is it likely that the FBI as an organization condones this or even approves of that activity? Not likely at all.

There were LE and active military indicted in this incident. Is it likely that the organizations they work for approved of their activity here? No one has even hinted that to be true. Why would you accept an assertion that the FBI would then?

That's ridiculous

Are you certain that’s ridiculou?

How The FBI Invents Terror Plots To Catch Wannabe Jihadis

Terrorism prosecutions are rife with signs of entrapment by law enforcement, according to a new study provided to BuzzFeed News. FBI critics say the bureau is trampling civil liberties based on flawed ideas about radicalization.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots

Human Rights Watch documents 'sting' operations in report that raises key questions about post-9/11 civil rights

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 504709

Yes, like the 1993 WTC bombing with a truck bomb in the parking basement.
The FBI provided the explosives, the van, talked them into it, etc.

 

[kyzr]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

You’re not asking the right question.

my vote….

Not a democrat. Oppose the attack

The right question is?

Something along the lines of, "I'm a GOP voter and I condemn the violence done by my fellow Republicans".

You'll get a 0.0 response rate to that question. A lot of the GOP voters really believe the Trump supporters were just on a Capitol Building tour and doing nothing wrong.

Look at the fucking poll before typing nonsense.
The vote is 16 to 4 of GOP voters opposed to the riot at the capital, not 0.0
Assuming the 4 votes are GOP and not dems.

Read the fucking post you're responding to.

Who committed the acts of violence at the capital?

OK, I re-read it. You said: "You'll get a 0.0 response rate to that question." I showed you that the response was 16-4 (not 0.0)

Prove that "a lot of GOP voters believe "the Trump supporters were just on a Capitol Building tour and doing nothing wrong." (you can't, the poll proves you wrong)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/18/clyde-tourist-capitol-riot-photos/

Lying Republican's try to rewrite history

Shortly after Liz Cheney was ousted from her leadership post for speaking the truth about Donald Trump and his roll in the January 6th attack on the US capital, Republican lawmakers, in a pathetic attempt to curry favor with Trump began trying to rewrite history. Rep. Andrew Clyde, R-Ga., said...

www.usmessageboard.com

Here is my poll question, and your recommended poll question:
"I'm a GOP voter and I condemn the violence done by my fellow Republicans". (yours)

"I'm a GOP voter and NO I do NOT support the attack on the Capital Building" (mine)​

Call me illiterate, but I'm not seeing a major difference in those two questions, since the capital riot was obviously by Trump supporters, and FBI instigators.

Yeah shit brains; you didn't post the question I posited. Condemning the violence and explicitly listing the offenders as Trump supporters will get you nowhere with your fellow blobbers. You guys are not living in reality.

As for your illiteracy...you don't see the word "republican" in mine but not yours?

You must be the only idiot in the country who doesn't know as "fact" that the people who rioted at the capital building were Trump supporters, duh.

Proving my point about your illiteracy. Your last line:
"As for your illiteracy...you don't see the word "republican" in mine but not yours?" (look again, yes it is in yours, its assumed in mine)

I win. Give your mom her puter back.

that is what Trumpers are claiming now. Republicans were not the rioters at the capital, it was Antifa...and now, Trumpers are claiming it was an inside job of the FBI....and deep state.

EVEN threads and posts on it here on usmb with links to Trumper media....are claiming such utter nonsense

So, they could be saying they are against the 1/6 attack, because they believe it was Antifa, the deep state, or FBI and not republicans?

1. Maybe not ALL of the rioters were GOP/Trump supporters, but the vast majority of the 400 or so were obviously Trump supporters
2. The FBI probably instigated some of the rioting. I'm waiting to see if the guy who planted the bomb was FBI.
3. Most poll respondents obviously know that the vast majority of (~400) rioters were Trump supporters and NOT antifa or FBI.

Obviously NOT Perrier drinking antifa rioters

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Tell us all you know about the hundreds of people who were arrested and their "white supremacist affiliations".

150 days after Capitol attack, more than 465 arrested as FBI seeks tips on hundreds more​

[150 days after Capitol attack, more than 465 arrested as FBI seeks tips on hundreds more: DOJ]
​

Members Of Right-Wing Militias, Extremist Groups Are Latest Charged In Capitol Siege​

[Members Of Right-Wing Militias, Extremist Groups Are Latest Charged In Capitol Siege]

Prosecutors in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday evening released a slew of communications
indicating that three para-military militia groups had formed a coordinated “alliance”
in the weeks ahead of the Jan. 6 Capitol siege — discussing strategy and use of
force tactics as they prepared to “get shit kicked off” following the “Save the Steal” rally.
[‘Wait for the 6th When We Are All in DC to Insurrection’: New Communications Indicate Coordination Between Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Three-Percenters]
​

More Than a Dozen Extremist Groups Took Part in Capitol Riots​

[Researchers: More Than a Dozen Extremist Groups Took Part in Capitol Riots]


Trump goons are being brought to justice after the self-proclaimed "Trumpiest Congressman"'s desperate attempt to blame others fizzled:​

Gaetz claims MAGA mob was Antifa 'masquerading as Trump supporters'​

[Gaetz claims MAGA mob was Antifa 'masquerading as Trump supporters']



View attachment 504687
Would you believe, 'BLM in whiteface'?"

View attachment 504686




​

Okay. Still looking for the truth in your claim that "hundreds" at the Capitol melee
were arrested for their white supremacist connections. Not seeing proof of that at all.

Can you fix that? M' okay thanks.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

You don't have to have guns to have an insurrection.. Many of them did have weapons.. and per Trump's instructions they were there to fight for their country, take back America and overturn the election.

But to implement an insurrection, you have to not just delay the election certification by a day, but prevent it permanently.
Since I did not see any sleeping bags, tents, etc., I saw nothing to indicate this was a permanent attempt, but just headlines grandstanding for a single day. And I see no harm in that. In fact, I kind of like that, even though I totally disagree with their beliefs, values, etc.
In fact, I wish all different opinions and views got similar face time on a regular basis.

But to implement an insurrection, you have to not just delay the election certification by a day, but prevent it permanently.

Nonsense. A failed insurrection is still an insurrection just as a bank robbery is still a bank robbery even if the thief escapes empty handed.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Sure, sure. I'd bet the Trumpybear revisionist Historians are busy at work rewriting all the History book as we speak!

Don't want your comrades facing the competition?

Half of everything leftist "know" about the Trump administration and years is wrong.
For example, the popular myth that Trump gassed demonstrators near the White House merely so he could
walk through the park there holding his big stage bible?

Wrong! The DC mayor called out her police on demonstrators who had tried to set St. John's Episcopal church
on fire, among other criminal acts. Yet nine out of ten leftists (if not all) blame the president for
gassing protestors and attacking them.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I want to know why an unarmed petite woman can be shot dead, and the shooter isn't made public, not to mention stand trial for murder.

What murder? A criminal insurgent was shot attacking the seat of our government.

An UN ARMED AMERICAN CITIZEN was SHOT DEAD, and the KILLER is in HIDING. Why is that? Who shot her?

If it's so DESERVED, then why hide the murderer?

You're out to lunch.

What murderer? A capitol police officers did his/her duty.

Police only have authority to use deadly force in defense against deadly force.
Since Ashli was incapable of threatening anyone with deadly force, then shooting her was deliberate murder and a criminal offense.
Failing to prosecute the one guilty is complicity after the fact, and is also a crime.

her mission was to go through the broken door window, and do what?

open the doors to let the other rioters who smashed the windows in to the Speaker of the House lobby???

lead the way to Pelosi, Pence, and the rest of congress critters??

What did Ashli have planned to do, once she broke in to the House lobby?

I wish she had not crawled through that smashed window.

I wish she were still alive. I wish she was not shot.



it was reported that she was shot in the shoulder, not heart or head shot. One shot to the shoulder...where the bullet travelled from there, I dunno?

it was also reported that it was not capitol police that shot her, but a Secret Service agent.

I'm thinking if it was secret service, it was likely VP Mike Pence's secret service agent since he was in the House of Reps at the time.

Wrong.
The door were not locked, but barricaded, with chairs, tables, etc.
Ashli getting to the other side would have changed nothing.
And no congress people were in the House any more.
They had left the House we know, because we saw them in the lobby a few minutes earlier, and they were leaving.
They was no one in the House anymore.
There was absolutely no reason to deny Ashli or anyone access to the House lobby or even the House itself any more.

You can see from the arm of the shooter, that he was wearing a uniform, so was a cop.
And the shot was to Ashli's neck. It cut the jugular vein. It was a throat shot, but did not have huge blood loss, so was not the carotid artery, but a vein instead.

Secret Service would not have shot her.
She was not a threat to anyone.
Secret service would more likely have just pushed her back through the window is there was any reason to even bother.
And no, Mike Pence had left like all the members of Congress had.
There was no one there but police.

Not so. Recess had been called, and many of them left immediately, but there were still plenty of House members and staffers inside the House chamber, many hiding under the desks. Others were trying to get out through the Speaker's Lobby, which is the hallway behind the chamber that she was climbing into, because the stairs down to the underground shuttle train are at the opposite end of that Lobby from where she was breaking in. You can see a few in the hallway on the videos.

You may be thinking of the Senate chamber on the other side; that's the one that people got into, climbing on the walls and sitting in the chair and so on. None of the invaders ever made it in to the House chamber, though.

I've lost count how many times I've shown this video, recorded while Benedict Babbitt was shot, and he still continues to lie by falsely claiming there was no one still inside the House chamber...

The only people you can see in that video are media, police, visitors, etc. I saw an almost empty room with fewer than a dozen people, none of whom were members of congress.

The only people you can see in that video are media, police, visitors, etc. I saw an almost empty room with fewer than a dozen people, none of whom were members of congress.

You are either a liar a dope or both.
Congresswoman Jayapal

View attachment 504707

I do not recognize Jaypal, but why would she still be there?
Makes no sense.
Everyone else obviously was smart enough to leave.
And Ashli's attempt to get to the Speaker Lobby would still not have gained her any access to the actual House.
There was still yet another set of barricades protestors would have to cross.

I do not recognize Jaypal, but why would she still be there?

Your problem. There were several members still in the chamber regardless of your ability to recognize that. Either stop making pronouncements as to what you believe happened or take the time to get if right.

 

[kyzr]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

You’re not asking the right question.

my vote….

Not a democrat. Oppose the attack

The right question is?

Something along the lines of, "I'm a GOP voter and I condemn the violence done by my fellow Republicans".

You'll get a 0.0 response rate to that question. A lot of the GOP voters really believe the Trump supporters were just on a Capitol Building tour and doing nothing wrong.

Look at the fucking poll before typing nonsense.
The vote is 16 to 4 of GOP voters opposed to the riot at the capital, not 0.0
Assuming the 4 votes are GOP and not dems.

Read the fucking post you're responding to.

Who committed the acts of violence at the capital?

OK, I re-read it. You said: "You'll get a 0.0 response rate to that question." I showed you that the response was 16-4 (not 0.0)

Prove that "a lot of GOP voters believe "the Trump supporters were just on a Capitol Building tour and doing nothing wrong." (you can't, the poll proves you wrong)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/18/clyde-tourist-capitol-riot-photos/

Lying Republican's try to rewrite history

Shortly after Liz Cheney was ousted from her leadership post for speaking the truth about Donald Trump and his roll in the January 6th attack on the US capital, Republican lawmakers, in a pathetic attempt to curry favor with Trump began trying to rewrite history. Rep. Andrew Clyde, R-Ga., said...

www.usmessageboard.com

Here is my poll question, and your recommended poll question:
"I'm a GOP voter and I condemn the violence done by my fellow Republicans". (yours)

"I'm a GOP voter and NO I do NOT support the attack on the Capital Building" (mine)​

Call me illiterate, but I'm not seeing a major difference in those two questions, since the capital riot was obviously by Trump supporters, and FBI instigators.

Yeah shit brains; you didn't post the question I posited. Condemning the violence and explicitly listing the offenders as Trump supporters will get you nowhere with your fellow blobbers. You guys are not living in reality.

As for your illiteracy...you don't see the word "republican" in mine but not yours?

You must be the only idiot in the country who doesn't know as "fact" that the people who rioted at the capital building were Trump supporters, duh.

Proving my point about your illiteracy. Your last line:
"As for your illiteracy...you don't see the word "republican" in mine but not yours?" (look again, yes it is in yours, its assumed in mine)

I win. Give your mom her puter back.

Meanwhile back in reality, I gave you 2 links to folks who still insist it was not Trump supporters.

Oh, I'm 100% sure it was Trump supporters who rioted at the Capitol, did the Tiki Torch white power march in Charlottesville, shot up multiple places across the nation...ran over people in their car, routinely beat the crap out of people at their rallies.

Trump supporters crave violence...always have, always will.

PS: My mother died. Watch your step, boy.

1. Ok, but it was Trump supporters. There may have been a few others, such as FBI or antifa, but of the ~400 rioters obviously most were Trump supporters who were upset about the alleged voter fraud.

2. The tiki torch march was about confederate statues not voter fraud. Lets stick to debating one topic at a time. I'm not sure what got shot up except gang violence in urban plantations, like Chicago?! If antifa doesn't want to get beat up, don't have counter rallies, free speech, diversity, tolerance, and all.

3. Trump violence?!

4. Sorry about your mother, you sounded younger than that. My only point being that proof-reading posts is a good thing.

 

[kyzr]

1. Stop lying. How stupid are you? I don't think abortion is murder, its perfectly legal.
2. Your convoluted argument is nonsense.
3. If no one is charged with insurrection, it wasn't an insurrection, period, duh.

One more time. I do not think abortion is murder. Let that sink in before you reply, if you reply.

LOLOLOLOL

Did you really think you could lie your way out of this??

You claim you don't think abortion is murder, yet YOU say it is...

​

Abortion is the murder of babies for convenience.

You claim you're "pro-choice," yet YOU say you're not...

​

Pro-choice means you want abortions on demand.

That is not what "pro-life" means anyway. Pro-life means against abortions on demand. Pro-choice means you want abortions on demand.

1. Pro-life

2. Pro-Choice​

​

I'm PRO-LIFE!!​

Now that your lies are thoroughly decimated, tell the forum again how someone who believes abortion is murder even though no one is being charged with murder for a legal abortion -- also believes Insurrection Day wasn't an insurrection because no one's been charged with insurrection.

1. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with bullshit, but I'm pro-choice, at least for this debate. Abortion is legal. Kill all the little democrat larvae you want.
2. So for the record, at least for this debate. I'm pro-choice. Abortion is NOT murder. Deal with it. Your "abortion is murder" argument is hereby voided.
3. Sometimes when I debate pro-life hypocrites I take the other side, for the sake of the debate. Like, if you're pro-life, are you willing to raise a special needs baby?
4. Also, I'm always mystified by hypocrite Catholic bishops that ignore democrats who support abortion. Lately they are discussing prohibiting pro-choice democrats from receiving Holy Communion. I call that progress. If you are pro-choice deal with the religious implications.

You're lying. You're not pro-choice for any debate. That is not a fluid position that changes from one debate to another. Either you are or you're not and you very clearly said you're not.

​

1. Pro-life

2. Pro-Choice​

​

I'm PRO-LIFE!!​

You're lying. You believe abortion is murder for any debate. That is not a fluid position that changes from one debate to another. Either you believe abortion is murder or you don't and you very clearly said you do...

​

Abortion is the murder of babies for convenience.

Now everyone here sees you stand for nothing as you alter your beliefs depending on what argument you're trying to win.

1. Don't presume to tell me WTF I believe.
2. I was pro-choice in several discussions, trying to show pro-lifers that caring for a newborn is a huge responsibility that some people just cannot begin to manage, is adoption an option, possibly, but another issue I have are the supposedly "good Catholics" in government, like Xiden, Pelosi, Cuomo, who are pro-choice against their Church policy. Now finally the Church is making them step up and make a decision. You're either Catholic or you're pro-choice, you can't be both. Its about fucking time.
3. In this debate abortion is NOT murder, abortion is perfectly legal. My pro-life arguments are on moral not legal grounds, so kill all the little democrat larvae you want with abortion.

For the record, I can argue the abortion issue from any side I want. The USMB does not tattoo policy positions on my ass, deal with it.
So drop the "abortion is murder" argument, its not. Try something else, or lose.
Going golfing, so my next reply will be delayed. <poof>

kyxr,

I am pro-choice but wouldn't support having abortion personally. So while I think it is wrong for me or my spouse to have abortion, I also think it is wrong for me to impose my beliefs on to others...

So a Democrat can be pro-choice and still be a good Catholic... Actually the Bible says leave to Cesar what is Ceasar's...

Judge not others....

As for "abortion is murder"... Could all those people please be just as vocal about how evil IVF and other fertility treatments are....

1. No one is imposing beliefs on others. If you want to be a Catholic, you can't be pro-choice, period. If you want to be pro-choice, choose another religion.

2. The Church said that if you are pro-choice you can't receive Holy Communion. That is their belief system.

3. The full quote is "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what is God's"
One meaning is give to Caesar taxes or whatever he demands from the state, but to God give virtuous souls.

4. "Judge not" is another quote. The Catholic Church has a lot of firepower from Jesus, such as John 20:23, "whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven, and whose sins you shall retain are retained".

5. The abortion debate is complex, there are legal arguments and moral arguments.

 

[Pellinore]

I want to know why an unarmed petite woman can be shot dead, and the shooter isn't made public, not to mention stand trial for murder.

What murder? A criminal insurgent was shot attacking the seat of our government.

An UN ARMED AMERICAN CITIZEN was SHOT DEAD, and the KILLER is in HIDING. Why is that? Who shot her?

If it's so DESERVED, then why hide the murderer?

You're out to lunch.

What murderer? A capitol police officers did his/her duty.

Police only have authority to use deadly force in defense against deadly force.
Since Ashli was incapable of threatening anyone with deadly force, then shooting her was deliberate murder and a criminal offense.
Failing to prosecute the one guilty is complicity after the fact, and is also a crime.

her mission was to go through the broken door window, and do what?

open the doors to let the other rioters who smashed the windows in to the Speaker of the House lobby???

lead the way to Pelosi, Pence, and the rest of congress critters??

What did Ashli have planned to do, once she broke in to the House lobby?

I wish she had not crawled through that smashed window.

I wish she were still alive. I wish she was not shot.



it was reported that she was shot in the shoulder, not heart or head shot. One shot to the shoulder...where the bullet travelled from there, I dunno?

it was also reported that it was not capitol police that shot her, but a Secret Service agent.

I'm thinking if it was secret service, it was likely VP Mike Pence's secret service agent since he was in the House of Reps at the time.

Wrong.
The door were not locked, but barricaded, with chairs, tables, etc.
Ashli getting to the other side would have changed nothing.
And no congress people were in the House any more.
They had left the House we know, because we saw them in the lobby a few minutes earlier, and they were leaving.
They was no one in the House anymore.
There was absolutely no reason to deny Ashli or anyone access to the House lobby or even the House itself any more.

You can see from the arm of the shooter, that he was wearing a uniform, so was a cop.
And the shot was to Ashli's neck. It cut the jugular vein. It was a throat shot, but did not have huge blood loss, so was not the carotid artery, but a vein instead.

Secret Service would not have shot her.
She was not a threat to anyone.
Secret service would more likely have just pushed her back through the window is there was any reason to even bother.
And no, Mike Pence had left like all the members of Congress had.
There was no one there but police.

Not so. Recess had been called, and many of them left immediately, but there were still plenty of House members and staffers inside the House chamber, many hiding under the desks. Others were trying to get out through the Speaker's Lobby, which is the hallway behind the chamber that she was climbing into, because the stairs down to the underground shuttle train are at the opposite end of that Lobby from where she was breaking in. You can see a few in the hallway on the videos.

You may be thinking of the Senate chamber on the other side; that's the one that people got into, climbing on the walls and sitting in the chair and so on. None of the invaders ever made it in to the House chamber, though.

I've lost count how many times I've shown this video, recorded while Benedict Babbitt was shot, and he still continues to lie by falsely claiming there was no one still inside the House chamber...

The only people you can see in that video are media, police, visitors, etc. I saw an almost empty room with fewer than a dozen people, none of whom were members of congress.

You're lying again. There are people in that video other than police.

But not any congress members.
Mostly media.
Possibly some visitors.
The one wearing the gas mask for example, clearly had plenty of time to leave, but instead wanted to be there.
The room is clearly nearly empty, and no congress members would have been allowed to stay.

You're still lying. You have no idea who those people are. But we're making progress; earlier, you said there was no one in there. Now you see who the police were protecting when they shot Ashli Targetpractice.

There was a whole additional set of barricades to get from the Speaker Lobby to actually get inside the House, so there was still no point in shooting Ashli.
The people remaining in the House wanted to be there for some reason.
They knew the protestors were going to surround the House eventually, so anyone with any concern would have been long gone by then.
The barricade Ashli was trying to cross did not lead to the House.
At best you could claim it would reduce the number of exits available from the House, closer to getting the House surrounded.
But that is all.
Nothing was gained by shooting Ashli other than the noise, which could have been accomplished by firing a warning shot into a waste can.

Okay, so I found this article from The Washington Post. It's behind a paywall, but with some quick copy-pasting, I was able to read it.

At approximately 2:40 p.m., a group of lawmakers left the House floor via the Speaker’s Lobby, an adjacent corridor featuring portraits of past leaders of the House. The lawmakers came within sight of an angry mob. The two groups were separated by several police officers and a barricaded glass-paneled door that the rioters were attempting to smash.

“Break it down! Break it down!” rioters chanted, as lawmakers filed out.

Two minutes after the last of the lawmakers had left the corridor, Trump supporter Ashli Babbitt was shot dead by a Capitol Police officer as she began to climb through a broken section of the door.

In the gallery overlooking the chamber, some lawmakers had yet to be evacuated when Babbitt was shot. “I heard the gunshot, a lot of screaming,” recalled Rep. Robin Kelly (D-Ill.), who was in the gallery.

By 2:53 p.m., 41 minutes after rioters entered the building through the smashed window, the last member of the last large group of House members to leave had been evacuated and was headed for a secure location.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/16/video-timeline-capitol-siege/

It seems as if a first group of lawmakers left at 2:40, she was shot at 2:42, then the rest got out by 2:53. There you go; we did see a bunch leave earlier, but not all of them.

And the Speaker's Lobby had at least one open door leading into the Chamber—after all, the fleeing House members had just used it two minutes earlier.

 

[kyzr]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

Why vote at all. We know it was republicans and it was disgraceful so why give them a chance to grovel back.
They said nothing at the time now they want forgiveness. Go away.

This thread happened when HappyJoy and I were arguing on another thread if the majority of Trump supporters approved or or rejected the riot at the capital building.
It looks like my position was correct, at least 80% of GOP voters opposed the DC riot, but do still support Trump's "America First" policies.
I'm not sure WTF your argument is? No one wants forgiveness, we'll vote again in 2022 and 2024, buckle-up.

Yes but you're under the mistaken impression that the "opposition" the GOP voters are showing in this poll means that they are condemning their fellow blob supporters. They are not. As I've demonstrated repeatedly in numerous screen shots...a great many of you dumbfucks still insist:

BLM/ANTIFA/M-O-U-S-E--whomever other than Trump supporters--were the ones who did the violence on 1/6

1. The poll is clear, the vast majority (80%) of Trump supporters OPPOSE the riot at the capital, period.
2. There may have been some FBI or antifa involvement on 1/6, but the vast majority of rioters were Trump supporters.
3. You are simply wrong. We are NOT insisting anything, the guilty will go to prison, period, whoever they are.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

The police had no way of knowing whether the woman was armed or unarmed she was part of an armed insurrection. Please are not required to determine whether someone is armed or on arm before feeling threatened and shooting them.

Actually they are! And the insurrection was not an armed affair. You are just lying your considerable ass
off! The several police there all had the drop on Babbitt and look at the video, which is available,
and show me where Babbitt was "threatening them". Another fucking pathetic lie trying to
justify murder.

The woman was violently breaking the law and attacking the capital her death may have saved the lives of those who are trying to escape the mob.

She was present in the Capitol. "Violently" breaking the law is yet another lie. Is merely standing in someone else's house "violently breaking the law"?
You are a cartoon. But not funny.

 

[kyzr]

1. Stop lying. How stupid are you? I don't think abortion is murder, its perfectly legal.
2. Your convoluted argument is nonsense.
3. If no one is charged with insurrection, it wasn't an insurrection, period, duh.

One more time. I do not think abortion is murder. Let that sink in before you reply, if you reply.

LOLOLOLOL

Did you really think you could lie your way out of this??

You claim you don't think abortion is murder, yet YOU say it is...

​

Abortion is the murder of babies for convenience.

You claim you're "pro-choice," yet YOU say you're not...

​

Pro-choice means you want abortions on demand.

That is not what "pro-life" means anyway. Pro-life means against abortions on demand. Pro-choice means you want abortions on demand.

1. Pro-life

2. Pro-Choice​

​

I'm PRO-LIFE!!​

Now that your lies are thoroughly decimated, tell the forum again how someone who believes abortion is murder even though no one is being charged with murder for a legal abortion -- also believes Insurrection Day wasn't an insurrection because no one's been charged with insurrection.

1. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with bullshit, but I'm pro-choice, at least for this debate. Abortion is legal. Kill all the little democrat larvae you want.
2. So for the record, at least for this debate. I'm pro-choice. Abortion is NOT murder. Deal with it. Your "abortion is murder" argument is hereby voided.
3. Sometimes when I debate pro-life hypocrites I take the other side, for the sake of the debate. Like, if you're pro-life, are you willing to raise a special needs baby?
4. Also, I'm always mystified by hypocrite Catholic bishops that ignore democrats who support abortion. Lately they are discussing prohibiting pro-choice democrats from receiving Holy Communion. I call that progress. If you are pro-choice deal with the religious implications.

You're lying. You're not pro-choice for any debate. That is not a fluid position that changes from one debate to another. Either you are or you're not and you very clearly said you're not.

​

1. Pro-life

2. Pro-Choice​

​

I'm PRO-LIFE!!​

You're lying. You believe abortion is murder for any debate. That is not a fluid position that changes from one debate to another. Either you believe abortion is murder or you don't and you very clearly said you do...

​

Abortion is the murder of babies for convenience.

Now everyone here sees you stand for nothing as you alter your beliefs depending on what argument you're trying to win.

1. Don't presume to tell me WTF I believe.
2. I was pro-choice in several discussions, trying to show pro-lifers that caring for a newborn is a huge responsibility that some people just cannot begin to manage, is adoption an option, possibly, but another issue I have are the supposedly "good Catholics" in government, like Xiden, Pelosi, Cuomo, who are pro-choice against their Church policy. Now finally the Church is making them step up and make a decision. You're either Catholic or you're pro-choice, you can't be both. Its about fucking time.
3. In this debate abortion is NOT murder, abortion is perfectly legal. My pro-life arguments are on moral not legal grounds, so kill all the little democrat larvae you want with abortion.

For the record, I can argue the abortion issue from any side I want. The USMB does not tattoo policy positions on my ass, deal with it.
So drop the "abortion is murder" argument, its not. Try something else, or lose.
Going golfing, so my next reply will be delayed. <poof>

"I was pro-choice in several discussions"

​

1. Pro-life

2. Pro-Choice​

​

I'm PRO-LIFE!!​

Sadly, the lying never ends with you. What a shame.

You can't debate items 1-3 so you lie about it. Typical low-IQ democrat. Thanks for playing.

 

[kyzr]

The 1619 Project is bogus history, period.
Math is not racist, period.

1619 Project is about math?
-----------------------------------------------------------

one of whom was executed in cold blood by a black cop.

And the race of the cop is important to you -- why?

1. The 1619 Project is bogus history.
3. Math is not racist.
3. Playing the race card by lying about history or math is stupid.

How is the 1619 Project "bogus history"? Point out the part that is bogus.

From a new book by an active duty AF officer, "Irresistible Revolution" by Matthew Lohmeier:
The "1619 Project" and CRT are not history they are ideology.

Their bogus history was refuted in "the President's Advisory 1776 Commission" report, written by real professors and historians, not stupid communist/racists.

A 40-page report was released January 21, 2021. Read it and learn the truth:

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.go...nts-Advisory-1776-Commission-Final-Report.pdf



The 1619 Project was published in NYT Magazine August 2019. It was an essay written by Nikole Hannah-Jones without any citations or references. It is simply incorrect, as documented and refuted by real historians. It is simply an amateurish attempt to "reframe history" and "decenter whiteness" according to the author. It is ideology pretending to be history.

Some of the unsubstantiated and simply incorrect claims include:

1. America was founded in 1619, not 1776

2. The reason for the American Revolution was to protect slavery

3. The US Constitution is anti-black

4. The founding ideals were all false

5. That slavery didn't exist until the US started it



The 1619 Project is nothing but a poorly written collection of racist lies.

That answers your question. There was no research, there are no citations, its total bullshit.





Critical Race Theory: What It Is and How to Fight It - Geller Report News

How To Disrupt Critical Race Theory Training | The American Conservative

Critical Race Theory in Education: How to Fight It | National Review

 

[kyzr]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

Looks like you already got people who answered "Other" but in their post they support the "violence and law breaking".

The test is for GOP voters to decide. "Other" means we're still tracking favorably and lawfully.

No, you should have stated conservatives, that'd give the more fringier in your group a chance to answer.

I'm not a conservative, I'm a Trump "America First Populist". Conservatism is dead. Its also a lie.

You're a magaturd. There's no use for you. At all.

Says a low IQ democrat. Got any content to debate or are you too stupid?

 

[Lesh]

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

You don't have to have guns to have an insurrection.. Many of them did have weapons.. and per Trump's instructions they were there to fight for their country, take back America and overturn the election.

Prove it. Are you saying our government is weak? Hahaha

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

Your Sentinel/Revolver link is horse shit.

According to them "unindicted co-conspirators" MUST be FBI and MUST be working AS FBI agents. They have no evidence of either. Zero.

In every case they point to Oath Keepers and Proud Boys etc. who absolutely were involved in the planning and execution of the Insurrection nd ignore the fact that the Oath Keepers in particular has many current and former law enforcement members ACTING ON THEIR OWN in its ranks.

Could some FBI assholes be members of the Oath Keepers? Sure. Is it likely that the FBI as an organization condones this or even approves of that activity? Not likely at all.

There were LE and active military indicted in this incident. Is it likely that the organizations they work for approved of their activity here? No one has even hinted that to be true. Why would you accept an assertion that the FBI would then?

That's ridiculous.

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

Your Sentinel/Revolver link is horse shit.

According to them "unindicted co-conspirators" MUST be FBI and MUST be working AS FBI agents. They have no evidence of either. Zero.

In every case they point to Oath Keepers and Proud Boys etc. who absolutely were involved in the planning and execution of the Insurrection nd ignore the fact that the Oath Keepers in particular has many current and former law enforcement members ACTING ON THEIR OWN in its ranks.

Could some FBI assholes be members of the Oath Keepers? Sure. Is it likely that the FBI as an organization condones this or even approves of that activity? Not likely at all.

There were LE and active military indicted in this incident. Is it likely that the organizations they work for approved of their activity here? No one has even hinted that to be true. Why would you accept an assertion that the FBI would then?

That's ridiculous

Are you certain that’s ridiculou?

How The FBI Invents Terror Plots To Catch Wannabe Jihadis

Terrorism prosecutions are rife with signs of entrapment by law enforcement, according to a new study provided to BuzzFeed News. FBI critics say the bureau is trampling civil liberties based on flawed ideas about radicalization.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots

Human Rights Watch documents 'sting' operations in report that raises key questions about post-9/11 civil rights

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 504709

Yes, like the 1993 WTC bombing with a truck bomb in the parking basement.
The FBI provided the explosives, the van, talked them into it, etc.

Sure they did. And you know this because you got it from Infowars… right?

 

[Lesh]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

Looks like you already got people who answered "Other" but in their post they support the "violence and law breaking".

The test is for GOP voters to decide. "Other" means we're still tracking favorably and lawfully.

No, you should have stated conservatives, that'd give the more fringier in your group a chance to answer.

I'm not a conservative, I'm a Trump "America First Populist". Conservatism is dead. Its also a lie.

You’re right about that. Conservatism has always been a lie for all but the very wealthy and now Trump killed it dead

 

[Lesh]

I don’t support the actions of any rowdy mob that damages buildings or loots and burns. Therefore I don’t support the actions of those who entered the Capitol Building on Jan 6th.

However this was no “insurrection.” The rioters did not have firearms and it appears the FBI may have been involved in setting up the riot.

BREAKING: FBI official testifies that no guns were recovered from those arrested at the Jan. 6 Capitol siege

FBI assistant director for counterterrorism Jill Sanborn confirmed in a Senate hearing that no guns were recovered during the Capitol protests on Jan 6

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

FBI helped plan and execute the 1-6 riot, committing the most egregious acts? Video

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF STALIN’S PLAY BOOK Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Monday that white supremacists are the single biggest threat our country faces. He did not define what a white supremacist is or who they are. That’s because the depraved AG is lying. And then there is Christopher...

www.independentsentinel.com

You don't have to have guns to have an insurrection.. Many of them did have weapons.. and per Trump's instructions they were there to fight for their country, take back America and overturn the election.

But to implement an insurrection, you have to not just delay the election certification by a day, but prevent it permanently.
Since I did not see any sleeping bags, tents, etc., I saw nothing to indicate this was a permanent attempt, but just headlines grandstanding for a single day. And I see no harm in that. In fact, I kind of like that, even though I totally disagree with their beliefs, values, etc.
In fact, I wish all different opinions and views got similar face time on a regular basis.

Had those insurrectionists gotten hold of the electoral ballots it would have thrown the election to the House based on the number of states and not members , meaning Republicans win. And that was the plan

 

[kyzr]

To prove a point, we need to clarify how many GOP posters support the "violence and law breaking that took place inside the Capital on 1/6/21".
As opposed to the many of us who supported the 1/6 protest, but NOT the attack on the Capital Building and the threats to Mike Pence and the injuries and deaths and property damage.

Please vote in the poll honestly.

Looks like you already got people who answered "Other" but in their post they support the "violence and law breaking".

The test is for GOP voters to decide. "Other" means we're still tracking favorably and lawfully.

No, you should have stated conservatives, that'd give the more fringier in your group a chance to answer.

I'm not a conservative, I'm a Trump "America First Populist". Conservatism is dead. Its also a lie.

You’re right about that. Conservatism has always been a lie for all but the very wealthy and now Trump killed it dead

I hope "conservatism" is DEAD. "Only little people pay taxes" is what the 1% really think.
The GOP personal tax cuts are a fiscal disaster. Trump and Mnuchin said that the tax cuts would spur 5% GDP growth and pay for themselves, which is total nonsense.
But the oligarchs like their tax cuts, so we'll see what the democrats do with taxes. I'm not optimistic.

 

[jc456]

You’re right about that. Conservatism has always been a lie for all but the very wealthy and now Trump killed it dead

what's the lie? ooops!!!!! you won't respond.