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Poll: Do You Agree With Dr. Rand Paul That Dr. Anthony Fauci Lied to Congress Regarding NIH Funding Gain of Function Research in Wuhan?

Do You Agree With Dr. Rand Paul That Dr. Anthony Fauci Lied to Congress Regarding NIH Funding


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woodwork201

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Dr Fauci reported what was known about COVID at the time
As more became known, he updated his advice.
He was always willing to make the tough call and be frank with Americans. That is why America respected him.

Can you show where Dr Faucis advice differed from international experts?
And how would Trump know more than what his sainted advisor Fauci was telling him? What a fucking hypocrite.
 

Staidhup

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Regardless of political affiliation America should not be funding GOF research off shore, furthermore, lie, and politicize for ones own gain. Absolutely deplorable.
 

woodwork201

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Respecting the immunologist who has distinguished himself by his long service to the American public is quite a different matter from the mindless adoration of the cult of trumpery.

The pissy mewling about the doctor appears to be just more hyper-partisan sniveling unless proven otherwise - targeting a relentless non-partisan. The whiners have yet to substantiate their aspersions.

In the meantime, there is no reason to take the chronic malcontents seriously.


"Keep being a science truth teller."
U.S. Rep. Fred Upton (R) wrote to Dr Fauci.​
The entire world started with respect and trust for everything Fauci said. When Fauci was caught in pure hypocrisy, completely stupid ideas like 2 or even 3 masks for us, and then he's seen without a mask at a baseball game, proving that he never really believed what he was saying in the first place, trust began to erode. Following that, we've seen the emails and communications to prove, even more, that Fauci is doing nothing except to cover up his own malfeasance. (Wow. I spelled malfeasance right without aid of the spell checker.).

Continued mindless adoration of the cult of fauciism is a different matter than respecting the service of Donald Trump and defending him against the lies and attacks from those who are so easily manipulated by the Communists and Socialists at the head of the leftist movement.
 

Faun

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77% believe he lied. Whether true or false, this is disturbing.
LOL

You're demented, ShortBus. There is absolutely nothing disturbing about it. It's a meaningless unscientific, non-probability poll with a sampling limited to USMB members and with a margin of error well into the 90's.

If it reflects anything at all, it reflects this site has about 3 times as many members on the right than on the left.
 

rightwinger

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And how would Trump know more than what his sainted advisor Fauci was telling him? What a fucking hypocrite.

Well……

Doctor Fauci’s advice was consistent with what medical experts were saying at the time

Trump’s pronouncements made experts go WTF?
 

AzogtheDefiler

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LOL

You're demented, ShortBus. There is absolutely nothing disturbing about it. It's a meaningless unscientific, non-probability poll with a sampling limited to USMB members and with a margin of error well into the 90's.

If it reflects anything at all, it reflects this site has about 3 times as many members on the right than on the left.
Margin of error is 90%? Please state how you got to that number. Also please show that the site has 3x those on the right vs. on the left.

Thank you, OCD ridden fat fuck loser.
 

woodwork201

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You know using bigger words doesn’t make you look smarter? Scientifically it actually does the opposite. That was a lot of fluff to just say I don’t like what rand is saying. I already stated an A priori “I don’t like what he’s saying” will not suffice as a valid argument in this case. Nor would it suffice in any other setting.

So let’s just go through Rands assertions. These will be yes or no questions. Was the NIH knowingly funding an organization that was funding/doing research at the Wuhan lab.
Yes or No?

Is the NIHs own definition of gain of function research increasing transmissibility including the ability to infect a new species...among other things, but specifically that?
Yes or No?

Does the research funded by the NIH at the wuhan lab include giving the ability to infect a new species in at least one virus?
Yes or No?

I feel like this is a sufficient summery of Rands assertions. Anybody, feel free to join in.

Also, let me just state for the record here that Faucis record and “service” is not even close to halfway decent. It is rife with ethical violations, and just straight up shitty science. He overestimated the HIV threat saying that 10 million Americans would die in 10 years. That was close to 40 years ago. And we’re only at 250,000 deaths. He and his department have had multiple ethical complaints including conducting HIV drug research on foster children because they could not find willing participants and these children, being wards of the state, could not say no (since the state was the guardian. That’s a hangable offense in my book. Let’s stop the absurd worship of this feckless bureaucrat. Anyone who declares “To criticize me is to criticize the science” is not a scientist.
Suddenly I am thinking we should have an investigation into Fauci and the spread of HIV/Aids. It was created before his time but did he get as enamored with killing with Covid as a result of playing with HIV?
 

woodwork201

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In the matter of Randy's raving about Fauci, the hyper-partisans are falling in line.

Medical experts adhere to the scientific reality. It is a matter of science, and knee-jerk judgments by ideological fanatics will not be the determinant of where the truth resides.

If the politician is telling the truth when he claims that he plans on asking the Department of Justice to open a criminal inquiry into Fauci for lying to Congress, the findings of that inquiry will be the only valid resolution. If no such inquiry is requested, that will be an admission of the fraudulence of the charge.


Experts are siding with Dr. Anthony Fauci in the dispute with Sen. Rand Paul over whether experiments done on bat coronaviruses conducted at the Wuhan Institute of Virology constituted gain of function research...
Robert Garry, a virologist and professor at Tulane University, described the experiments as being a study as to whether the bat coronaviruses could infect humans. What they didn't do, he told Newsweek, was make the viruses "any better" at infecting people, which would be necessary for gain-of-function research.
Gain-of-function is a controversial research method that involves manipulating pathogens to give them a new aspect, such as making viruses more transmissible or dangerous to humans. Dr. Vincent Racaniello, a virologist at Columbia University, said the "key" to the research not being gain-of-function is the viruses the researchers started with could already infect human cells because they could bind to the ACE2 receptor, a protein that serves as the entry point for coronaviruses to infect human cells...
"If you started with a bat virus that could not infect human cells and then gave it the ability to do so, that would be a gain-of-function. But that is not what they did there," Racaniello said. "They didn't give it a new property."..
"When all the heat of the pandemic dies down would it be appropriate to take a look at some of this guidance and reconsider it? Sure, it would be foolish not to," Garry said.
However, Garry added that crossing the line between restricting dangerous gain-of-function experiments and basic virology where scientists "swap bits and pieces of viruses" could hinder the worlds' ability to study viruses that could be harmful to humans and "know what's out there."...
Dr. Gregory Gray, a Duke University professor, disagreed with Paul's assessment that the experiments attempted to increase the virus' transmissibility. He characterized it as "lifting the hood" on a virus to see how it works.
Brett Giroir, former President Donald Trump's coronavirus testing czar... acknowledged it may not be "technically 'gain-of-function research.'"
Stuart Neil, a professor of virology at King's College in London, admitted it was a "grey area" in a Twitter thread explaining the debate. However, he reasoned that the grant was determined not to involve gain-of-function research because scientists were replacing a function in a virus that already had the ability to infect humans rather than giving that ability to a virus that could not infect humans.
Regardless of how it's viewed in retrospect, Neil argued that at the time the grant was awarded, the NIH didn't think it constituted gain-of-function research and therefore Fauci was not lying.

Your quotes contradict each other, of course. And not one of those "experts" know what was going on in the lab, anyway. They can't know whether the transmissibility to humans was increased.

Some of your "experts", falsely, claim that the virus can't be the result of GOF because it was already transmissible to humans. This is clearly a lie since, as your first quoted expert explains, GOF is the act of increasing, not creating, transmissibility to humans.

Second, since no one has ever found this virus in nature, it's only known source being a lab, they cannot possibly substantiate a claim that it was "already" transmissible to humans. The only way to make such a claim is to have the virus from its natural source and prove transmissibility to humans.

What you're intentionally ignoring is that there are Josef-Mengele-style mad scientists still all around the world, Fauci clearly being one of them and being worshiped by them all because of his log-standing ability to deliver American taxpayer money, who want to continue their studies and research into creating end-of-the-world viruses and do not want massive public outcry against their evil.

Fauci's own documents prove his interest is in creating pandemics like this one - or even worse.
 

badger2

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And how would Trump know more than what his sainted advisor Fauci was telling him? What a fucking hypocr
Suddenly I am thinking we should have an investigation into Fauci and the spread of HIV/Aids. It was created before his time but did he get as enamored with killing with Covid as a result of playing with HIV
LOL

You're demented, ShortBus. There is absolutely nothing disturbing about it. It's a meaningless unscientific, non-probability poll with a sampling limited to USMB members and with a margin of error well into the 90's.

If it reflects anything at all, it reflects this site has about 3 times as many members on the right than on the left.
The entire world started with respect and trust for everything Fauci said. When Fauci was caught in pure hypocrisy, completely stupid ideas like 2 or even 3 masks for us, and then he's seen without a mask at a baseball game, proving that he never really believed what he was saying in the first place, trust began to erode. Following that, we've seen the emails and communications to prove, even more, that Fauci is doing nothing except to cover up his own malfeasance. (Wow. I spelled malfeasance right without aid of the spell checker.).

Continued mindless adoration of the cult of fauciism is a different matter than respecting the service of Donald Trump and defending him against the lies and attacks from those who are so easily manipulated by the Communists and Socialists at the head of the leftist movement.
Fau Chi is theologian trained. People are best controlled by not believing in what you have taught them.
 

woodwork201

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If the hyper-partisans could provide links to valid scientific authorities that support Randy's calling Fauci a liar, that would be far more revelatory than their irrelevant, frenetic, ideological pom-pom flailing.

"Fauci Bad Man!" is just not selling in America.


Sixty-eight percent of Americans said they are “confident” in the advice given by Fauci — down from the 71 percent who said so in April, but on par with the 68 percent of respondents in August 2020.
Public opinion is not an indication of science, other than the social science of public opinion manipulation through brainwashing.
 

GWV5903

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woodwork201

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Maybe so it’s not the textbook definition of GOF, though we would disagree since the very gesture of taking it from a cave-bat’s rear end creates two populations. What you have in your tubes is no longer nature. Then the origins question was used as propaganda fodder by the communist Chinese.
Be cautious about accepting the statements of a leftist tool. They didn't just move this virus from a bat-cave to the lab. No one has ever, ever, found this virus in the wild in a source animal population. It's the result of GOF. It is the only possible source.
 

badger2

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Your quotes contradict each other, of course. And not one of those "experts" know what was going on in the lab, anyway. They can't know whether the transmissibility to humans was increased.

Some of your "experts", falsely, claim that the virus can't be the result of GOF because it was already transmissible to humans. This is clearly a lie since, as your first quoted expert explains, GOF is the act of increasing, not creating, transmissibility to humans.

Second, since no one has ever found this virus in nature, it's only known source being a lab, they cannot possibly substantiate a claim that it was "already" transmissible to humans. The only way to make such a claim is to have the virus from its natural source and prove transmissibility to humans.

What you're intentionally ignoring is that there are Josef-Mengele-style mad scientists still all around the world, Fauci clearly being one of them and being worshiped by them all because of his log-standing ability to deliver American taxpayer money, who want to continue their studies and research into creating end-of-the-world viruses and do not want massive public outcry against their evil.

Fauci's own documents prove his interest is in creating pandemics like this one - or even worse.
Increased human ACE2 receptor binding can be demonstrated in the lab, as it was from LYRa11, a virus harbored by the same bat that is reservoir to SARS-CoV-2’s closest relative, RaTG13..
 

badger2

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Be cautious about accepting the statements of a leftist tool. They didn't just move this virus from a bat-cave to the lab. No one has ever, ever, found this virus in the wild in a source animal population. It's the result of GOF. It is the only possible source.
Gof used on the epidemic strains of SARS-Cov-2 has been refuted by science. What makes this gof claim absurd is that the very places in the spike that should have been enhanced for increased affinity to human ACE2, were not. The moment one takes a virus into the lab, two populations of that virus are created.
 

Faun

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Margin of error is 90%? Please state how you got to that number. Also please show that the site has 3x those on the right vs. on the left.

Thank you, OCD ridden fat fuck loser.
ShortBus, the pool size is less than 0.0000088235 of the nation. And almost everyone here saying Fauci lied is on the right while almost everyone here saying he didn't is on the left.
 

schmidlap

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So I guess you will have to wait for that list.
If Randy's accusation is deemed to be frivolous and without merit, there is no reason for the Justice Department to treat it seriously.

If Senator Paul cannot sustain his charge against Dr Fauci in the course he claims that he will take, and if no other legitimate venue takes him seriously, he should have the integrity to withdraw it and the decency to apologize to him.

In the meantime, Randy will have wee wee'd up the ideological nutjobs, but it is a scientific matter that can only be properly assessed by peer review. So far, Randy's slur is not being supported by that discipline.

Paul, in another hearing, had recently used Fauci to try to score political points with hyper-partisan kooks by grandstanding against face masks - an asinine position since rejected by several Republican governors and others.

Randy, clearly, was not telling the truth when he raised the fake, hyperbolic prospect: "the nanny state is going to be there for three more years and you got to wear a mask forever!" Neither Dr Fauci, nor any responsible public health expert has ever suggested any such thing. Rand Paul lied.

The Kentucky goofball, for whom wearing a mask to protect the public is far too onerous an imposition, had been concerned enough to get tested, but then minced around while he was waiting for the results, showing up in the Senate, imposing himself upon vulnerable demographics, attending group lunches with his Republican colleagues, taking the Capitol elevators, talking with reporters, and working out in the Senate gym. Finally, the Blue Grass Typhoid Mary admitted he had tested positive, and only then went into quarantine.

He has established himself as a jerk regarding the pandemic, vehemently resisting sensible, common sensical precautions to prevent its spread.

Apparently, the anti-scientific ideologues can find no one more credible to spout their nonsense.
 
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Jim H - VA USA

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If Randy's accusation is deemed to be frivolous and without merit, there is no reason for the Justice Department to treat it seriously.

If Senator Paul cannot sustain his charge against Dr Fauci in the course he claims that he will take, and if no other legitimate venue takes him seriously, he should have the integrity to withdraw it and the decency to apologize to him.

In the meantime, Randy will have wee wee'd up the ideological nutjobs, but it is a scientific matter that can only be properly assessed by peer review. So far, Randy's slur is not being supported by that discipline.

Paul, in another hearing, had recently used Fauci to try to score political points with hyper-partisan kooks by grandstanding against face masks - an asinine position since rejected by several Republican governors and others.

Randy, clearly, was not telling the truth when he raised the fake, hyperbolic prospect: "the nanny state is going to be there for three more years and you got to wear a mask forever!" Neither Dr Fauci, nor any responsible public health expert has ever suggested any such thing. Rand Paul lied.

The Kentucky goofball, for whom wearing a mask to protect the public is far too onerous an imposition, had been concerned enough to get tested, but then minced around while he was waiting for the results, showing up in the Senate, imposing himself upon vulnerable demographics, attending group lunches with his Republican colleagues, taking the Capitol elevators, talking with reporters, and working out in the Senate gym. Finally, the Blue Grass Typhoid Mary admitted he had tested positive, and only then went into quarantine.

He has established himself as a jerk regarding the pandemic, vehemently resisting sensible, common sensical precautions to prevent its spread.

Apparently, the anti-scientific ideologues can find no one more credible to spout their nonsense.
>If Randy's accusation is deemed to be frivolous

Please. Paul laid out his evidence. It is quite convincing that NIH funded GoF research at Wuhan, and is by no means frivolous.

If you think it's frivolous, I think you are blinded by your political bias.
 

Rigby5

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And how would Trump know more than what his sainted advisor Fauci was telling him? What a fucking hypocrite.

Fauci is more politician than researcher.
So anyone who talks to actual doctors or researcher would know more than what Fauci was willing to say.
I say that because I think Fauci knew that "flattening the curve" was a bad idea, and he admitted it won't and can't end any epidemic that way.
So I think he already had bought into the vaccine idea, but just was not saying.
 

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