Poll: Can dems give wall funding for tax increase to solve Budget Deficit?

[rightwinger]

Mexico will pay for the wall by adding a new 2% tax on money sent out of the US, aka "remittances".

Mexicans In The U.S. Are Sending Home More Money Than Ever
Find out how much money American immigrants send abroad | finder.com

Two years now

Trump has not collected a cent yet

Because its not a law yet. It would pay for the wall and then some. Make it a law, then collect the money
Rogers Introduces Bill to Tax Illegal Immigrants, Help Fund Border Wall | Congressman Mike Rogers

Why not?

Mexico told Trump to go fuk himself a week after he took office

Why didn’t Trump pass it two years ago? To late now, the House won’t approve it

 

[rightwinger]

Dem's were on tv a few weeks back. They said they would give Trump money for the wall if he gave illegals amnesty...then in the next breath described how they would screw Trump on this deal by suing Trump in court to block acquiring the land for the wall.

THAT is how Democrats negotiate.

nope!

the Dems can't sue to block acquiring the land, but the land owners can fight the taking of their land eventually through eminent domain, by insisting on getting fair market value and suits.... it'll take a decade to grab these land owner's property for it, before it is all said and done, and probably triple the cost of the wall!!!

All the land owners on the border that I have seen interviewed on TV do not want the wall.... so, we can anticipate a real down and dirty fight from them....

You missed the point, Dem's are scheming on how to skip out on holding up their end of the deal before the deal is even signed. You cannot negotiate with Dem's they lie!

What deal with Trump and McConnell did the dems back out of? McConnell already said no deal while Trump is potus.

McConnell has never made a deal with Dems and no way will they deal with him now

 

[Care4all]

Dem's were on tv a few weeks back. They said they would give Trump money for the wall if he gave illegals amnesty...then in the next breath described how they would screw Trump on this deal by suing Trump in court to block acquiring the land for the wall.

THAT is how Democrats negotiate.

nope!

the Dems can't sue to block acquiring the land, but the land owners can fight the taking of their land eventually through eminent domain, by insisting on getting fair market value and suits.... it'll take a decade to grab these land owner's property for it, before it is all said and done, and probably triple the cost of the wall!!!

All the land owners on the border that I have seen interviewed on TV do not want the wall.... so, we can anticipate a real down and dirty fight from them....

You missed the point, Dem's are scheming on how to skip out on holding up their end of the deal before the deal is even signed. You cannot negotiate with Dem's they lie!

but I saw nothing in your post to support your contention and there is nothing they can do as you claimed about suing to stop the purchase of the land.... only the home and land owners on the border can do that, not the Democratic congress members?

 

[kyzr]

Not necessary, we're going get those taxes, and not only are not going to raise the social security eligibility age, but we're actually going to drop it back to 65, and remove the current cap of $118,000 completely to shore it up. Healthcare will be very simple to fix. Once a national healthcare system is put into place, every working American immediately gets a raise in income by not ever having to pay another premium, or deductible to a private insurance company, and the drug companies will be immediately put into check on what they can charge for drugs. This will also save companies that employ workers who currently provide coverage to their employees hundreds of billions in savings, so their new higher corporate tax will not be a burden for them. The DACA kids will get citizenship, though their parents will have to earn green cards, and we are more than conciliatory on ending chain migration, and offering monies for high tech equipment, and to maintain the current level of border security in place, since the immigration issue is that important to you.

Socialized medicine never works. Obamacare was bad enough. No thanks.

The SS cap is $127,000 in 2017. Eliminating the cap would extend SS past 2034

If the dems want to make the 2020 race about socialized medicine, that would be just terrific!

 

[McRocket]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

Forgetting everything but 1....

I applaud SOMEONE trying to balance the budget.

But I am TOTALLY against doing it with an increase in taxes. Taxes are already too high as it is.

Politicians MUST be disciplined enough to cut spending - NOT raise taxes.

And the federal government brings in WAAAAY more than enough to do what government SHOULD be doing as it is.
The Federal budget - in just the last ten years - has gone up over 1/3 from about 2.9 trillion to over 4.0 trillion.

THIS IS ******* RIDICULOUS!!!

I agree that there should be lots of waste in the Federal Budget to cut, but they have been unable to do it. Here is the 2019 Budget, Medicaid and Welfare look too big, but no one is able to cut $900b to balance the Budget. We need to do something before the interest on the Debt explodes:

2019 Federal Budget
Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $878b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary spending $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

Both the military AND welfare needs to be cut.

$893 billion is TOTALLY absurd for peacetime with ZERO, seriously viable adversaries on the horizon. $300 billion is MORE than enough.
And it is FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE to factually prove it is not.

The Donald Undone: Tilting At The Swamp, Succumbing To The Empire
Defense Spending by Country

And welfare should be in the form of government shelters in major, regional centers that offer places to sleep, eat and get basic medical attention (full medical attention for children) instead of sending out fraud/waste-attracting checks. This could also be where seniors who need Social Security can go to live (in on-site apartments).
This should save several $100's of billions more.

Mixed this in with cutting budgets to unnecessary/over-funded agencies and balancing the budget is relatively simple. Not easy - but simple.

No doubt you and just about everyone on this board disagrees with me.

That must mean it is correct...

Please stop bloviating and put up a real answer. If it is so simple, please put up your revised Budget. I gave you the 2019 numbers above in post #42. It is not simple. We agree the $900b peacetime deficit is absurd. When the Debt explodes its too late.

It's good you agree the military budget is bloated...I may have misjudged you.

And bloviating (I had to look that word up)? I did not realize this was a test?

But alright.

It's simple - cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries (if they cannot survive on their own - tough). Of course, the Neocons will HATE this...but screw 'em, dickheads.
End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government, welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now.
There---budget balanced....with a surplus.

Want more?

- End Homeland security - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals (having two layers of public hospitals is ridiculous). Still free healthcare for needy vets - but now they just get it from their local medical facilities and the latter bills the government. Saves some vets having to drive many dozens of miles to get healthcare when they have a public/private hospital in their area.

That should leave a nice $400-$500 billion dollar surplus. Probably the first year some of this surplus money will be needed to construct/purchase the above mentioned 'regional, welfare centers'.
But after that...
...either pay down the debt and/or lower taxes for the middle class/poor and/or end corporate taxes completely (helps the economy) or a combination thereof.


Finally, since I am on a roll, I would simplify taxes by making both income AND capital gains identical for taxation purposes and end ALL deductions except for capital losses and charitable contributions.
Everyone (who understands math) could then do their own taxes in 5 minutes.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

 

[kyzr]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

 

[McRocket]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

I am actually for the wall - I see nothing wrong with building a wall along one's border if large numbers of illegal aliens are crossing that border. And the budget for it would be only a tiny fraction of the military budget for just one year.

But, short of some sort of listening devices that monitor for tunnel digging that covers every, single foot of the wall (which sounds EXTREMELY expensive - to say the least). I do not see how this wall will stop illegal immigrants from constructing tunnels under the wall.
Though I admit I am no expert on the subject - far from it.

The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

I am actually for the wall - I see nothing wrong with building a wall along one's border if large numbers of illegal aliens are crossing that border. And the budget for it would be only a tiny fraction of the military budget for just one year.

But, short of some sort of listening devices that monitor for tunnel digging that covers every, single foot of the wall (which sounds EXTREMELY expensive - to say the least). I do not see how this wall will stop illegal immigrants from constructing tunnels under the wall.
Though I admit I am no expert on the subject - far from it.

The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels

From what I've read, they didn't use much technology to detect tunnel building. These tunnels are very large and very structurally built, so it takes a lot of construction machinery to make those tunnels; something we have the technology to detect today.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

It seems to me the only people in fear of the wall are the left because they know the wall WILL WORK. Why is that such a fear? Because once it's up, it's up for good and the Democrats would have a hell of a time getting public support for ripping it back down.

Walls work in other places they are tried. But the left are brainwashed by their puppet masters to believe differently in spite of the evidence.

 

[kyzr]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

Forgetting everything but 1....

I applaud SOMEONE trying to balance the budget.

But I am TOTALLY against doing it with an increase in taxes. Taxes are already too high as it is.

Politicians MUST be disciplined enough to cut spending - NOT raise taxes.

And the federal government brings in WAAAAY more than enough to do what government SHOULD be doing as it is.
The Federal budget - in just the last ten years - has gone up over 1/3 from about 2.9 trillion to over 4.0 trillion.

THIS IS ******* RIDICULOUS!!!

I agree that there should be lots of waste in the Federal Budget to cut, but they have been unable to do it. Here is the 2019 Budget, Medicaid and Welfare look too big, but no one is able to cut $900b to balance the Budget. We need to do something before the interest on the Debt explodes:

2019 Federal Budget
Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $878b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary spending $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

Both the military AND welfare needs to be cut.

$893 billion is TOTALLY absurd for peacetime with ZERO, seriously viable adversaries on the horizon. $300 billion is MORE than enough.
And it is FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE to factually prove it is not.

The Donald Undone: Tilting At The Swamp, Succumbing To The Empire
Defense Spending by Country

And welfare should be in the form of government shelters in major, regional centers that offer places to sleep, eat and get basic medical attention (full medical attention for children) instead of sending out fraud/waste-attracting checks. This could also be where seniors who need Social Security can go to live (in on-site apartments).
This should save several $100's of billions more.

Mixed this in with cutting budgets to unnecessary/over-funded agencies and balancing the budget is relatively simple. Not easy - but simple.

No doubt you and just about everyone on this board disagrees with me.

That must mean it is correct...

Please stop bloviating and put up a real answer. If it is so simple, please put up your revised Budget. I gave you the 2019 numbers above in post #42. It is not simple. We agree the $900b peacetime deficit is absurd. When the Debt explodes its too late.

It's good you agree the military budget is bloated...I may have misjudged you.

And bloviating (I had to look that word up)? I did not realize this was a test?

But alright.

It's simple - cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries (if they cannot survive on their own - tough). Of course, the Neocons will HATE this...but screw 'em, dickheads.
End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government, welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now.
There---budget balanced....with a surplus.

Want more?

- End Homeland security - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals (having two layers of public hospitals is ridiculous). Still free healthcare for needy vets - but now they just get it from their local medical facilities and the latter bills the government. Saves some vets having to drive many dozens of miles to get healthcare when they have a public/private hospital in their area.

That should leave a nice $400-$500 billion dollar surplus. Probably the first year some of this surplus money will be needed to construct/purchase the above mentioned 'regional, welfare centers'.
But after that...
...either pay down the debt and/or lower taxes for the middle class/poor and/or end corporate taxes completely (helps the economy) or a combination thereof.

Finally, since I am on a roll, I would simplify taxes by making both income AND capital gains identical for taxation purposes and end ALL deductions except for capital losses and charitable contributions.
Everyone (who understands math) could then do their own taxes in 5 minutes.

Thanks for the extensive and detailed reply. This is much better than a bullshit response.

Cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries.
OK, that saves $600b and the DOD is basically worthless. The purpose of the Federal government is defense, but your proposed cuts are similar to Obama's except much more severe, basically eliminating the DOD.
Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia

End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now. There---budget balanced....with a surplus.
Ending welfare saves $462b, adding back "the projects" that became rat infested drug infested shitholes in the 1960s.
FYI, SS is not a charity that can be cut, it is a program that seniors paid into their entire working life. You try to cut SS and you get lynched. Say that you net saving half of welfare, call it $230b from welfare and even throw in $100b from medicaid for a net $330b saved. Good luck getting any pols to vote for these cuts.

- End Homeland security $53b - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) $60b - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. $60b Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals $83b but use funding to pay for care via vouchers
Net savings $53+60+54b = ~$157b saved, but you would be overrun by illegals, and with no military or CIA you would be defenseless as a nation.
Saving $600b on DOD + $330b from welfare + $160b from DHS/CIA/ED = $1090b which gives a $190b annual pay down on the Debt. The math works, but the cuts are so extreme as to be totally unsupportable by either party. Sorry, but that is a FAIL as to getting the Budget Balanced responsibly.

 

[McRocket]

Forgetting everything but 1....

I applaud SOMEONE trying to balance the budget.

But I am TOTALLY against doing it with an increase in taxes. Taxes are already too high as it is.

Politicians MUST be disciplined enough to cut spending - NOT raise taxes.

And the federal government brings in WAAAAY more than enough to do what government SHOULD be doing as it is.
The Federal budget - in just the last ten years - has gone up over 1/3 from about 2.9 trillion to over 4.0 trillion.

THIS IS ******* RIDICULOUS!!!

I agree that there should be lots of waste in the Federal Budget to cut, but they have been unable to do it. Here is the 2019 Budget, Medicaid and Welfare look too big, but no one is able to cut $900b to balance the Budget. We need to do something before the interest on the Debt explodes:

2019 Federal Budget
Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $878b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary spending $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

Both the military AND welfare needs to be cut.

$893 billion is TOTALLY absurd for peacetime with ZERO, seriously viable adversaries on the horizon. $300 billion is MORE than enough.
And it is FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE to factually prove it is not.

The Donald Undone: Tilting At The Swamp, Succumbing To The Empire
Defense Spending by Country

And welfare should be in the form of government shelters in major, regional centers that offer places to sleep, eat and get basic medical attention (full medical attention for children) instead of sending out fraud/waste-attracting checks. This could also be where seniors who need Social Security can go to live (in on-site apartments).
This should save several $100's of billions more.

Mixed this in with cutting budgets to unnecessary/over-funded agencies and balancing the budget is relatively simple. Not easy - but simple.

No doubt you and just about everyone on this board disagrees with me.

That must mean it is correct...

Please stop bloviating and put up a real answer. If it is so simple, please put up your revised Budget. I gave you the 2019 numbers above in post #42. It is not simple. We agree the $900b peacetime deficit is absurd. When the Debt explodes its too late.

It's good you agree the military budget is bloated...I may have misjudged you.

And bloviating (I had to look that word up)? I did not realize this was a test?

But alright.

It's simple - cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries (if they cannot survive on their own - tough). Of course, the Neocons will HATE this...but screw 'em, dickheads.
End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government, welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now.
There---budget balanced....with a surplus.

Want more?

- End Homeland security - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals (having two layers of public hospitals is ridiculous). Still free healthcare for needy vets - but now they just get it from their local medical facilities and the latter bills the government. Saves some vets having to drive many dozens of miles to get healthcare when they have a public/private hospital in their area.

That should leave a nice $400-$500 billion dollar surplus. Probably the first year some of this surplus money will be needed to construct/purchase the above mentioned 'regional, welfare centers'.
But after that...
...either pay down the debt and/or lower taxes for the middle class/poor and/or end corporate taxes completely (helps the economy) or a combination thereof.

Finally, since I am on a roll, I would simplify taxes by making both income AND capital gains identical for taxation purposes and end ALL deductions except for capital losses and charitable contributions.
Everyone (who understands math) could then do their own taxes in 5 minutes.

Thanks for the extensive and detailed reply. This is much better than a bullshit response.

Cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries.
OK, that saves $600b and the DOD is basically worthless. The purpose of the Federal government is defense, but your proposed cuts are similar to Obama's except much more severe, basically eliminating the DOD.
Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia

End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now. There---budget balanced....with a surplus.
Ending welfare saves $462b, adding back "the projects" that became rat infested drug infested shitholes in the 1960s.
FYI, SS is not a charity that can be cut, it is a program that seniors paid into their entire working life. You try to cut SS and you get lynched. Say that you net saving half of welfare, call it $230b from welfare and even throw in $100b from medicaid for a net $330b saved. Good luck getting any pols to vote for these cuts.

- End Homeland security $53b - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) $60b - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. $60b Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals $83b but use funding to pay for care via vouchers
Net savings $53+60+54b = ~$157b saved, but you would be overrun by illegals, and with no military or CIA you would be defenseless as a nation.
Saving $600b on DOD + $330b from welfare + $160b from DHS/CIA/ED = $1090b which gives a $190b annual pay down on the Debt. The math works, but the cuts are so extreme as to be totally unsupportable by either party. Sorry, but that is a FAIL as to getting the Budget Balanced responsibly.

LOL...looks like I did not misjudge you after all.

Military Spending - $300 billion is more than China, Russia, Iran and NK spend combined...plus about $85 billion left over.
Defense Spending by Country
If you are saying that militarily outspending China, Russia, Iran and NK combined (plus $85 billion left over) leaves America with 'no military'? Then you are so clueless on the matter as to be COMPLETELY pointless to talk to about it.

Welfare + SS - Social security is just welfare and many people take it who do not even need it - which is silly. Just give back all the money that is in the SS coffers to those who paid into it but keep the SS tax (call it something else). It is not financially sustainable in the long term anyway.
And starting the government shelters would save hundreds of billions. They would not be 'projects' - those were apartment buildings. They just built huge numbers of apartment buildings, threw poor people in them and expected everything would be fine. PLEASE. They were a TOTALLY different concept.
These would be temporary 'shelters' - not homes. They would be run by the government and patrolled by police. No one would have an apartment except the elderly (maybe some families). They would be safe, clean, pleasant - but not comfortable (though more so for seniors); a good place to stay to get your life together, but not permanently (again, except for seniors).
There are TONS of shelters around the nation that are run by charities that have few problems - this would just be those on a MUCH larger scale.

So there is the budget surplus already...whether you like it or not.

Add in the others and deduct for a full, government healthcare for children (who need it) and the budget problem is over.


Now since you are so INCREDIBLY out to lunch as to call a $300 Billion military budget 'no Military' - I shall waste no more time on you on this as your mind is clearly, COMPLETELY closed on the matter.
And I try not to waste my time on closed-minded people.

Have a nice day.

 

[kyzr]

Since your proposed Budget cuts have less than zero chance of being considered, at least until the interest on the Debt consumes the Budget, some time around 2027, its pointless debating them. My proposed new Federal sales tax is probably DOA in the Senate as well. So we just sit around and watch the House and Senate watch the Debt grow and grow until its too late to do anything.

 

[rightwinger]

Normally, border defense and wall construction would be part of a comprehensive immigration policy and the elements would be negotiated between the parties

However these are not normal times and compromise is no longer a political tool

 

[rightwinger]

I agree that there should be lots of waste in the Federal Budget to cut, but they have been unable to do it. Here is the 2019 Budget, Medicaid and Welfare look too big, but no one is able to cut $900b to balance the Budget. We need to do something before the interest on the Debt explodes:

2019 Federal Budget
Mandatory spending $2.74T
Social Security $878b
Medicare $625b
Medicaid $412b
Welfare $462b
Interest on the Debt $363b

Discretionary spending $1.3T
Defense $893.0
HHS $70.0
Education $59.9
VA $83.1
Homeland $52.7
Energy Dept $29.2
NNSA $15.1
HUD $29.2
State Dept $40.3
NASA $19.0
All Other Agencies $133.1

Both the military AND welfare needs to be cut.

$893 billion is TOTALLY absurd for peacetime with ZERO, seriously viable adversaries on the horizon. $300 billion is MORE than enough.
And it is FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE to factually prove it is not.

The Donald Undone: Tilting At The Swamp, Succumbing To The Empire
Defense Spending by Country

And welfare should be in the form of government shelters in major, regional centers that offer places to sleep, eat and get basic medical attention (full medical attention for children) instead of sending out fraud/waste-attracting checks. This could also be where seniors who need Social Security can go to live (in on-site apartments).
This should save several $100's of billions more.

Mixed this in with cutting budgets to unnecessary/over-funded agencies and balancing the budget is relatively simple. Not easy - but simple.

No doubt you and just about everyone on this board disagrees with me.

That must mean it is correct...

Please stop bloviating and put up a real answer. If it is so simple, please put up your revised Budget. I gave you the 2019 numbers above in post #42. It is not simple. We agree the $900b peacetime deficit is absurd. When the Debt explodes its too late.

It's good you agree the military budget is bloated...I may have misjudged you.

And bloviating (I had to look that word up)? I did not realize this was a test?

But alright.

It's simple - cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries (if they cannot survive on their own - tough). Of course, the Neocons will HATE this...but screw 'em, dickheads.
End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government, welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now.
There---budget balanced....with a surplus.

Want more?

- End Homeland security - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals (having two layers of public hospitals is ridiculous). Still free healthcare for needy vets - but now they just get it from their local medical facilities and the latter bills the government. Saves some vets having to drive many dozens of miles to get healthcare when they have a public/private hospital in their area.

That should leave a nice $400-$500 billion dollar surplus. Probably the first year some of this surplus money will be needed to construct/purchase the above mentioned 'regional, welfare centers'.
But after that...
...either pay down the debt and/or lower taxes for the middle class/poor and/or end corporate taxes completely (helps the economy) or a combination thereof.

Finally, since I am on a roll, I would simplify taxes by making both income AND capital gains identical for taxation purposes and end ALL deductions except for capital losses and charitable contributions.
Everyone (who understands math) could then do their own taxes in 5 minutes.

Thanks for the extensive and detailed reply. This is much better than a bullshit response.

Cut $600B from the military budget, bring ALL troops home, close ALL foreign military bases AND end ALL military assistance to ALL other countries.
OK, that saves $600b and the DOD is basically worthless. The purpose of the Federal government is defense, but your proposed cuts are similar to Obama's except much more severe, basically eliminating the DOD.
Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia

End all welfare payments (including SS) and open federal government welfare centers in major, regional centers. You need food, shelter, medical asst.? Go there. No idea exactly how much that would save - but I would assume at least $500 billion off of the $1.4 trillion welfare/SS total now. There---budget balanced....with a surplus.
Ending welfare saves $462b, adding back "the projects" that became rat infested drug infested shitholes in the 1960s.
FYI, SS is not a charity that can be cut, it is a program that seniors paid into their entire working life. You try to cut SS and you get lynched. Say that you net saving half of welfare, call it $230b from welfare and even throw in $100b from medicaid for a net $330b saved. Good luck getting any pols to vote for these cuts.

- End Homeland security $53b - give it back to the FBI (it's creation was an overreaction to the 9/11 attacks).
- End CIA (Cold War relic) $60b - give it back to the military (where it belongs).
- Cut Education budget by 90%. $60b Make it strictly a watchdog organization - making sure minimum, educational standards are maintained. Give education completely to states otherwise.
- Close ALL VA hospitals $83b but use funding to pay for care via vouchers
Net savings $53+60+54b = ~$157b saved, but you would be overrun by illegals, and with no military or CIA you would be defenseless as a nation.
Saving $600b on DOD + $330b from welfare + $160b from DHS/CIA/ED = $1090b which gives a $190b annual pay down on the Debt. The math works, but the cuts are so extreme as to be totally unsupportable by either party. Sorry, but that is a FAIL as to getting the Budget Balanced responsibly.

LOL...looks like I did not misjudge you after all.

Military Spending - $300 billion is more than China, Russia, Iran and NK spend combined...plus about $85 billion left over.
Defense Spending by Country
If you are saying that militarily outspending China, Russia, Iran and NK combined (plus $85 billion left over) leaves America with 'no military'? Then you are so clueless on the matter as to be COMPLETELY pointless to talk to about it.

Welfare + SS - Social security is just welfare and many people take it who do not even need it - which is silly. Just give back all the money that is in the SS coffers to those who paid into it but keep the SS tax (call it something else). It is not financially sustainable in the long term anyway.
And starting the government shelters would save hundreds of billions. They would not be 'projects' - those were apartment buildings. They just built huge numbers of apartment buildings, threw poor people in them and expected everything would be fine. PLEASE. They were a TOTALLY different concept.
These would be temporary 'shelters' - not homes. They would be run by the government and patrolled by police. No one would have an apartment except the elderly (maybe some families). They would be safe, clean, pleasant - but not comfortable (though more so for seniors); a good place to stay to get your life together, but not permanently (again, except for seniors).
There are TONS of shelters around the nation that are run by charities that have few problems - this would just be those on a MUCH larger scale.

So there is the budget surplus already...whether you like it or not.

Add in the others and deduct for a full, government healthcare for children (who need it) and the budget problem is over.


Now since you are so INCREDIBLY out to lunch as to call a $300 Billion military budget 'no Military' - I shall waste no more time on you on this as your mind is clearly, COMPLETELY closed on the matter.
And I try not to waste my time on closed-minded people.

Have a nice day.

Our military spending is over $700 billion

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Normally, border defense and wall construction would be part of a comprehensive immigration policy and the elements would be negotiated between the parties

However these are not normal times and compromise is no longer a political tool

It never is with the Democrats.


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[rightwinger]

Normally, border defense and wall construction would be part of a comprehensive immigration policy and the elements would be negotiated between the parties

However these are not normal times and compromise is no longer a political tool

It never is with the Democrats.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Wrong again Ray

Dems worked with and compromised with Bush on No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, Homeland security, Iraq and Afghanistan

Republicans refused to support a single Obama initiative. Not a single Republican vote

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

No one wants to waste billions of dollars on a ridiculous wall that won't work just to assuage your fear and hate and the fear and hate of other conservatives.

 

[kyzr]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

No one wants to waste billions of dollars on a ridiculous wall that won't work just to assuage your fear and hate and the fear and hate of other conservatives.

Its not "fear and hate" its protecting our sovereign border from the invading hoards, like in WWZ

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Instead of a government shutdown, think about a "big f'ing deal" (big funding deal)

1. Top tax rate increases by 7% above 2016 level, and add a new 3% or so Fed sales tax [Big give by GOP]
2. Trump gets wall funding and immigration reform [Big give by dems]
a. No catch & release
b. No diversity lottery
c. No asylum claims unless pre-approved
d. No chain migration
e. Only merit based immigration for who the US needs
f. No birthright citizenship, i.e. no cottage industry for anchor babies
g. DACA kids get green cards but NOT citizenship

This would solve the Budget Deficit and start paying down the Debt. They should also fix SS by adding a year & Medicare. Those funding and entitlement fixes would set the US on a sound fiscal course for many years. Healthcare is a tougher thing to fix.

The clueless stupidity of most conservatives is truly remarkable.

The issue has nothing to do with cost.

The issue concerns the fact that the ‘wall’ won’t work.

What part of the wall won’t work do conservatives not understand – that the ‘wall’ will in no way keep immigrants out.

Conservatives must be so blinded by their fear, ignorance, bigotry, and hate to not understand that any ‘wall’ would be a monumental failure, in addition to being a monumental waste of time, money, and resources.

The wall will work, in addition to other hi-tech backup barriers. Please provide a credible link to the contrary.
Homeland Security's Nielsen Touts Troops And Border Wall Plan In California

No one wants to waste billions of dollars on a ridiculous wall that won't work just to assuage your fear and hate and the fear and hate of other conservatives.

The only thing that doesn’t work are these hate and fear lies.


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