Police Reform and The Catholic Church

[JoeB131]

In these discussions of Police misconduct and reform and "don't you dare criticize our police" vs. "all cops are bad", we are losing sight of how we got here. Perhaps a parallel case can offer ways forward.

Let's start with this as a baseline. Most cops are good guys. Even the bad cops joined the police with mostly good intention. 99% of them are doing what they are supposed to be doing. And 1% of them are the ones who are abusing suspects or using excessive force in cases that don't call for it.

By comparison, most Catholic Priests were not engaging in sex abuse. yes, there were some documented 700 priests out off some 42,000 ordained who were engaged in sexual misconduct with children in the US.

The problem with both is not that the majority engaged or even condoned the behavior, but what they did in response to it.

The Catholic Church didn't expell the bad priests. They paid off the families to keep the abuse quiet and often moved the offending priest to another parish without warning them. They got everyone involved to sign NDA's. In short, it was the coverup that was the problem, not just the crime.

Much the same, our Police Departments don't expel the bad cops. You take the most high-profile cases of police misconduct, you find officers who had long records of abusing suspects or civilians, but the police departments did very little to get rid of them. Police Departments investigated themselves, and in 99% of cases, found they had committed no wrongdoing.

I do think the Catholics finally admitted they had a problem, and have done something about it. The police, not so much. Reform is needed.

 

[Blackrook]

I agree, but I will add that the molestation of children happens in every organization where adults interact with children. The reason the Catholic Church was targeted by plaintiffs' attorneys was because it has deep pockets and is not protected by the cap that is placed on recovery against the government.

 

[JoeB131]

I agree, but I will add that the molestation of children happens in every organization where adults interact with children. The reason the Catholic Church was targeted by plaintiffs' attorneys was because it has deep pockets and is not protected by the cap that is placed on recovery against the government.

Um, no, the reason why the Catholic Church had such a problem is because it actively covered up for the pedophiles.

Yes, Child Molesters will try to work for anywhere they can get at kids. But schools and day care centers are a lot more vigilent and do more thorough background screenings to weed them out.

Which brings us back to the cops. The police consider officers who report on other officers to be "Rats" and called Internal Affairs divisions "The Rat Squad". It's why you get guys like Derek Chauvin or Jason Van Dyke who have dozens of previous incidents, but still have jobs. Or conversely, why a guy like Timothy Loehmann (who shot Tamir Rice) can get fired by Independence, OH for being completely unfit to be an officer, and then get picked up by Cleveland.

 

[martybegan]

In these discussions of Police misconduct and reform and "don't you dare criticize our police" vs. "all cops are bad", we are losing sight of how we got here. Perhaps a parallel case can offer ways forward.

Let's start with this as a baseline. Most cops are good guys. Even the bad cops joined the police with mostly good intention. 99% of them are doing what they are supposed to be doing. And 1% of them are the ones who are abusing suspects or using excessive force in cases that don't call for it.

By comparison, most Catholic Priests were not engaging in sex abuse. yes, there were some documented 700 priests out off some 42,000 ordained who were engaged in sexual misconduct with children in the US.

The problem with both is not that the majority engaged or even condoned the behavior, but what they did in response to it.

The Catholic Church didn't expell the bad priests. They paid off the families to keep the abuse quiet and often moved the offending priest to another parish without warning them. They got everyone involved to sign NDA's. In short, it was the coverup that was the problem, not just the crime.

Much the same, our Police Departments don't expel the bad cops. You take the most high-profile cases of police misconduct, you find officers who had long records of abusing suspects or civilians, but the police departments did very little to get rid of them. Police Departments investigated themselves, and in 99% of cases, found they had committed no wrongdoing.

I do think the Catholics finally admitted they had a problem, and have done something about it. The police, not so much. Reform is needed.

You got a link for that 700 our 42k number?

 

[JoeB131]

You got a link for that 700 our 42k number?

Yes. Not wasting time giving it to you.

 

[Agit8r]

If most cops are good, why do they always defend the cops who do deeds that are pure evil and indefensible?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The fundamental problem is that sworn officers encounter mostly the mentally ill, those suffering from substance abuse, the poor and the homeless – where what ‘training’ a sworn officer might have is woefully inadequate to serve those whom he encounters.

The ideal background for sworn officers would be to have an MSW, as opposed to a high school diploma, a stint in the military, and a few weeks of ‘training’ in a law enforcement ‘academy.’

Indeed, most of what sworn officers do is de facto social work.

This is why part of law enforcement reform must include funding to address the issues of mental health, drug abuse, and homelessness.

 

[JoeB131]

If most cops are good, why do they always defend the cops who do deeds that are pure evil and indefensible?

Good question. And frankly, it's because they could see how that bad situation could happen to them.

Had a talk with someone close to me, whose husband is a senior police officer. He has to have special insurance to protect his family not just for what he might be sued for, but what any policeman under his command might be sued for.

He never knows when the guy he pulled over for speeding might have a gun and will try to shoot his way out of his situation because he's just violated his parole in six different ways.

A lot of these cops who are involved in these incidents aren't evil. They are poorly trained, or maybe they've been on the job too long because they are jaded.

Police have the highest suicide rate of any profession. It's that stressful.

New Study Shows Police At Highest Risk For Suicide Of Any Profession

According to a nationwide study, police officers are at a higher risk of suicide than any other profession due to access to deadly weapons and trauma.

www.addictioncenter.com

They have a divorce rate of 66 to 75%.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Lol at the Political correct analogy...

Why didn't you compare Negros to cops????

 

[Agit8r]

If most cops are good, why do they always defend the cops who do deeds that are pure evil and indefensible?

Good question. And frankly, it's because they could see how that bad situation could happen to them.

Had a talk with someone close to me, whose husband is a senior police officer. He has to have special insurance to protect his family not just for what he might be sued for, but what any policeman under his command might be sued for.

He never knows when the guy he pulled over for speeding might have a gun and will try to shoot his way out of his situation because he's just violated his parole in six different ways.

A lot of these cops who are involved in these incidents aren't evil. They are poorly trained, or maybe they've been on the job too long because they are jaded.

Police have the highest suicide rate of any profession. It's that stressful.

New Study Shows Police At Highest Risk For Suicide Of Any Profession

According to a nationwide study, police officers are at a higher risk of suicide than any other profession due to access to deadly weapons and trauma.

www.addictioncenter.com

They have a divorce rate of 66 to 75%.

Let's take the instance of Otto Zehm in Spokane. He was completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The video of Karl F. Thompson attacking him without any provocation was public knowledge, and yet still his fellow blue-shirts felt the need to approve his behavior, as a special "f~ck you" to the people who pay their salary. There is no way I can have sympathy for any member of a department that acts that way. They are traitors to the constitution they swore an oath to uphold. Pure evil and unredeemable.

Karl Thompson taken into custody

U.S. Marshals took convicted Spokane Police Officer Karl F. Thompson Jr. into custody today after a federal judge ruled that his detention is appropriate pending sentencing for using excessive force on Otto Zehm and lying to cover it up.

www.spokesman.com

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Public education has a far more serious problem with pedos in its rank than the Church ever had.

It's epidemic to the point our children's schools now run background checks every three months.

 

[Blackrook]

The fundamental problem is that sworn officers encounter mostly the mentally ill, those suffering from substance abuse, the poor and the homeless – where what ‘training’ a sworn officer might have is woefully inadequate to serve those whom he encounters.

The ideal background for sworn officers would be to have an MSW, as opposed to a high school diploma, a stint in the military, and a few weeks of ‘training’ in a law enforcement ‘academy.’

Indeed, most of what sworn officers do is de facto social work.

This is why part of law enforcement reform must include funding to address the issues of mental health, drug abuse, and homelessness.

What you're saying is that the police need more funding so they can do their job.

So why does your side want to defund the police?

 

[martybegan]

You got a link for that 700 our 42k number?

Yes. Not wasting time giving it to you.

Figures. Is the 42k number over the same period of time as the 700 number?

Asking because you have a history of referring to bullshit debunked studies.

 

[eagle7-31]

In these discussions of Police misconduct and reform and "don't you dare criticize our police" vs. "all cops are bad", we are losing sight of how we got here. Perhaps a parallel case can offer ways forward.

Let's start with this as a baseline. Most cops are good guys. Even the bad cops joined the police with mostly good intention. 99% of them are doing what they are supposed to be doing. And 1% of them are the ones who are abusing suspects or using excessive force in cases that don't call for it.

By comparison, most Catholic Priests were not engaging in sex abuse. yes, there were some documented 700 priests out off some 42,000 ordained who were engaged in sexual misconduct with children in the US.

The problem with both is not that the majority engaged or even condoned the behavior, but what they did in response to it.

The Catholic Church didn't expell the bad priests. They paid off the families to keep the abuse quiet and often moved the offending priest to another parish without warning them. They got everyone involved to sign NDA's. In short, it was the coverup that was the problem, not just the crime.

Much the same, our Police Departments don't expel the bad cops. You take the most high-profile cases of police misconduct, you find officers who had long records of abusing suspects or civilians, but the police departments did very little to get rid of them. Police Departments investigated themselves, and in 99% of cases, found they had committed no wrongdoing.

I do think the Catholics finally admitted they had a problem, and have done something about it. The police, not so much. Reform is needed.

Don't panic, but this is one of few posts you have made that has some common sense.

 

[JoeB131]

Lol at the Political correct analogy...

Why didn't you compare Negros to cops????

Why should I? African Americans don't belong to an organization with a heirarchy that protects the bad behavior of them members. Catholic Priest and cops do.

 

[JoeB131]

Don't panic, but this is one of few posts you have made that has some common sense.

All my posts make sense, just most of you wingnuts are too brainwashed to understand them.

 

[JoeB131]

Figures. Is the 42k number over the same period of time as the 700 number?

Asking because you have a history of referring to bullshit debunked studies.

You mean studies you don't like. Do your own research and prove me wrong.

I mean, it will be as funny as your Kellerman study where you claimed it wasn't true because some of those people were suicides, so they don't count as dead for some reason.

Public education has a far more serious problem with pedos in its rank than the Church ever had.

It's epidemic to the point our children's schools now run background checks every three months.

Uh, no, dummy, Public Education is doing what it SHOULD be doing, running constant background checks. This is what the Catholic Church didn't do, because when Fr. McFeely told his Bishop he liked little boys, the first reaction of the Bishop wasn't to turn him over to the cops, it was to have him say Five Hail Marys and then send his peverted ass to another parish.

I also think by rejecting any adult male who had a healthy sexual interest in the opposite sex, the Church really didn't recognize deviancy when they saw it.

 

[JoeB131]

Let's take the instance of Otto Zehm in Spokane. He was completely innocent of any wrongdoing. The video of Karl F. Thompson attacking him without any provocation was public knowledge, and yet still his fellow blue-shirts felt the need to approve his behavior, as a special "f~ck you" to the people who pay their salary. There is no way I can have sympathy for any member of a department that acts that way. They are traitors to the constitution they swore an oath to uphold. Pure evil and unredeemable.

OR they felt their fellow cop was being railroaded. I agree, this was outrageous behavior and he should have gone to jail, but why are we asking cops to deal with our population of homeless mentally ill to start with? Because some liberal do-gooders decided that it was really unfair to keep the mentally ill in institutions. Much better to just let them live on the street where they can menace the rest of us.

Zehm was a schizophrenic, but you leave that one out. Ah, I remember the days when you liberal do-gooders got them all released in the late 70's, and they started wandering around our streets, gathering around the liquor store to self-medicate.

 

[martybegan]

Figures. Is the 42k number over the same period of time as the 700 number?

Asking because you have a history of referring to bullshit debunked studies.

You mean studies you don't like. Do your own research and prove me wrong.

I mean, it will be as funny as your Kellerman study where you claimed it wasn't true because some of those people were suicides, so they don't count as dead for some reason.

Public education has a far more serious problem with pedos in its rank than the Church ever had.

It's epidemic to the point our children's schools now run background checks every three months.

Uh, no, dummy, Public Education is doing what it SHOULD be doing, running constant background checks. This is what the Catholic Church didn't do, because when Fr. McFeely told his Bishop he liked little boys, the first reaction of the Bishop wasn't to turn him over to the cops, it was to have him say Five Hail Marys and then send his peverted ass to another parish.

I also think by rejecting any adult male who had a healthy sexual interest in the opposite sex, the Church really didn't recognize deviancy when they saw it.

So your number is bullshit, no link, no believe it, you lying fuck.

 

[JoeB131]

So your number is bullshit, no link, no believe it, you lying fuck.

Honestly, given the crazy shit you believe, I really don't care much what you believe.

My guess, is you did the research, found my numbers were basically right, and don't want to admit it.