Police dog trainer says it's OK to for officer to punch his dog.

Doc7505

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pknopp

pknopp

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There was something wrong. It seems there was no bonding between the dog and the handler.. Why would the dog turn on the handler? What did the handler do to the dog to precopitate the attack?
If I were in charge the K-9 handler would never handle dogs again.
Those in charge said he did the right thing. What does that say about those in charge?
 

Natural Citizen

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That's the way it has to be done with those dogs. Sorry, folks.
How many police k9's have you trained?
I've trained working dogs for years. And I'm not talking about guide dogs. That's about as much as I'd say about it.

At the moment my personal companion is a Schutzhund trained Turkish Kangal. Unheard of...
 
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Rigby5

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Schutzhund trained
Schutzhund isn't real-world work. It's a game. There is no pressure on the dog. It's a choreographed routine that the dog is conditioned to complete.
{...
Schutzhund, currently known competitively as IGP and previously as IPO, is a dog sport that tests a dog's tracking, obedience, and protection skills, and evaluates if a dog has the appropriate traits and characteristics of a good working dog
...}

But the real meaning of the German words schutzhund is a defense dog.
That is all it means.
Not attack dog or the way police are abusing them now.
The police should not be allowed to use animals, since they abuse them all the time, locked in hot cars.
The only legal use could be for tracking, not to attack people.
 

Natural Citizen

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Schutzhund isn't real-world work. It's a game. There is no pressure on the dog. It's a choreographed routine that the dog is conditioned to complete.
Heh heh. You keep thinking that.

Besides. I said that was my personal companion. You know as much as I chose to share with you.
 
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K9Buck

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Heh heh. You keep thinking that. Besides. I said that was my personal companion. You know as much as chose to share with you.
I think you misunderstand me or perhaps I communicated poorly.

There are definitely dogs that compete in Schutzhund that will stay in the fight and bite for real, such as in defending their handler, etc. But there are plenty of dogs that will NOT stay in a fight and will RUN from serious pressure that can compete in Schutzhund just fine.

The only way to know if a dog is street-ready is to take them into the street and have a decoy that the dog has never met put a shitload of pressure on the dog and see if the dog will stay and fight or if it will run.

A Schutzhund title means NOTHING when it comes to real-world work.
 

Natural Citizen

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I think you misunderstand me or perhaps I communicated poorly.

There are definitely dogs that compete in Schutzhund that will stay in the fight and bite for real, such as in defending their handler, etc. But there are plenty of dogs that will NOT stay in a fight and will RUN from serious pressure that can compete in Schutzhund just fine.

The only way to know if a dog is street-ready is to take them into the street and have a decoy that the dog has never met put a shitload of pressure on the dog and see if the dog will stay and fight or if it will run.

A Schutzhund title means NOTHING when it comes to real-world work.
Well. I assure you that my Turkish Kangal will stay in the fight. It's a thousands of years old guardian breed. And he will bite , as you say, for real. He's the big boy on the block. There is no other dog on the planet with a more powerful bite.

That's actually why I went Schutzhund and straight German with him. They're a very independent breed. That was a personal choice with a specific breed of dog in a specific environment.

But anyway, yeah, like I said. He's just my boy. But I'm experienced in other working environments and breeds. Enough to know that what the gp are seeing in that video isn't actually what is happening. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have said anything.
 

K9Buck

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I assure you that my Turkish Kangal will stay in the fight.
Considering their size, I'm confident he'll never be in a fight. :cool:

I wouldn't mind having one, but my vacuum cleaner won't allow it.
 

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I worked very closely with K9 corps down on Camp Pendleton...they would never strike their dogs...
My dog knows I'm the leader of our pack but he doesn't fear me...he trusts me and that's what you need to train into your dog...trust and respect....
 

Rambunctious

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I'll bet it no longer will be. I am totally against the police using dogs in this manner to start with and maybe something like this will get the ball rolling on stopping it.

Video shows California officer punch K-9 during training, witness says he heard dog ‘crying’

Another example of the kinds of people who have no business being police officers. Abusing animals has long been a sign of deep psychological problems.
I think it's fine to use dogs and other animals in the service of people, even if it sometimes means putting the animal through a certain amount of discomfort. What that cop did was immoral and DUMB. Beating a dog can make them less likely to be willing to engage a violent suspect due to the dog learning from its handler that it is vulnerable. Anyway, that cop should be FIRED because he lacks the stability needed to be a police officer.
Fired? Seems he was doing as he was trained. Seems to me that this needs addressed well above the officer in question.

As an aside, I do not have a problem with animals being used in service of people. I have a problem with the police using them in police stops.
Take too many non lethal weapons away....like K9 units...and more people end up shot and maybe dead....is that what you want?....K9 take downs save lives...K9 bomb sensing...searching for remains and or evidence...dogs are very important to law enforcement and our military...
 
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pknopp

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I'll bet it no longer will be. I am totally against the police using dogs in this manner to start with and maybe something like this will get the ball rolling on stopping it.

Video shows California officer punch K-9 during training, witness says he heard dog ‘crying’

Another example of the kinds of people who have no business being police officers. Abusing animals has long been a sign of deep psychological problems.
I think it's fine to use dogs and other animals in the service of people, even if it sometimes means putting the animal through a certain amount of discomfort. What that cop did was immoral and DUMB. Beating a dog can make them less likely to be willing to engage a violent suspect due to the dog learning from its handler that it is vulnerable. Anyway, that cop should be FIRED because he lacks the stability needed to be a police officer.
Fired? Seems he was doing as he was trained. Seems to me that this needs addressed well above the officer in question.

As an aside, I do not have a problem with animals being used in service of people. I have a problem with the police using them in police stops.
Take too many non lethal weapons away....like K9 units...and more people end up shot and maybe dead....is that what you want?....K9 take downs save lives...K9 bomb sensing...searching for remains and or evidence...dogs are very important to law enforcement and our military...
If you are unable train a dog without holding it down and punching it, you do not deserve to have one.
 

Beef_Supreme

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Yes, I read the article.

The handler's relationship with the dog was obviously very poor. Beating the dog will not improve that relationship.

There are some dogs that are very dominant and will challenge their handlers. Again, beating the dog is not the best way to address it. I know some trainers and handlers will disagree but I would rather use an electric collar so as not to necessarily associate the correction coming from the handler, at least in the dog's mind. When a dominant dog reacts aggressively to the handler, it should receive a shock. After a couple/few of those, the dog will get the idea. Beating the dog is just DUMB.
I had maybe one instance of a dog challenging me. I grabbed it and pinned it down by the neck and growled loudly at it.
Dog never did it again and was super friendly after that.
 
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pknopp

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It's like the police are totally incapable of learning anything.

Salisbury Police chief addresses K-9 video, says officer separated from animal - Salisbury Post

“It is important to understand that police K-9s are trained to use force against criminal suspects and the handler must ensure that they have complete control over the dog at all times so that any use of the K-9 in the field is appropriate and lawful,” Stokes said. “When a K-9 is noncompliant with the handler’s commands, the handler is trained to correct the dog. K-9 training tactics and corrective measures can sometimes be alarming when provided out of context.”

If they are incapable of training a dog without hitting and abusing it they should not have them.

They even knew it was wrong but it's OK because no one saw it.

"We're good, no witnesses," said a man who was out of the camera frame.

He then realizes the incident may have been recorded.

"Is your camera on?"

"Oh no, my power is off," said the man recording who leaked it to local media but has remained anonymous.


WATCH: Cop Swings K9 by Leash, Hanging it from Back; Chief Calls it "Training"

It appears there was at least one somewhat decent officer.
 

Gdjjr

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It's like the police are totally incapable of learning anything.

Salisbury Police chief addresses K-9 video, says officer separated from animal - Salisbury Post

“It is important to understand that police K-9s are trained to use force against criminal suspects and the handler must ensure that they have complete control over the dog at all times so that any use of the K-9 in the field is appropriate and lawful,” Stokes said. “When a K-9 is noncompliant with the handler’s commands, the handler is trained to correct the dog. K-9 training tactics and corrective measures can sometimes be alarming when provided out of context.”

If they are incapable of training a dog without hitting and abusing it they should not have them.

They even knew it was wrong but it's OK because no one saw it.

"We're good, no witnesses," said a man who was out of the camera frame.

He then realizes the incident may have been recorded.

"Is your camera on?"

"Oh no, my power is off," said the man recording who leaked it to local media but has remained anonymous.


WATCH: Cop Swings K9 by Leash, Hanging it from Back; Chief Calls it "Training"

It appears there was at least one somewhat decent officer.
He should be publicly executed.
 
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pknopp

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It's like the police are totally incapable of learning anything.

Salisbury Police chief addresses K-9 video, says officer separated from animal - Salisbury Post

“It is important to understand that police K-9s are trained to use force against criminal suspects and the handler must ensure that they have complete control over the dog at all times so that any use of the K-9 in the field is appropriate and lawful,” Stokes said. “When a K-9 is noncompliant with the handler’s commands, the handler is trained to correct the dog. K-9 training tactics and corrective measures can sometimes be alarming when provided out of context.”

If they are incapable of training a dog without hitting and abusing it they should not have them.

They even knew it was wrong but it's OK because no one saw it.

"We're good, no witnesses," said a man who was out of the camera frame.

He then realizes the incident may have been recorded.

"Is your camera on?"

"Oh no, my power is off," said the man recording who leaked it to local media but has remained anonymous.


WATCH: Cop Swings K9 by Leash, Hanging it from Back; Chief Calls it "Training"

It appears there was at least one somewhat decent officer.
He should be publicly executed.
Well I don't support capitol punishment but he should never be permitted to work with animals.
 

Gdjjr

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Well I don't support capitol punishment but he should never be permitted to work with animals.
Okay- I'll just shoot him- how's that work for you? I don't like capitol punishment either, but that's what a civilization demands- I prefer a reckoning, up close and personal.
 

Rigby5

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If you have to abuse animals in order to use them for these police purposes, then it is illegal for police to use them for those purposes.
 

there4eyeM

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So many people "love" dogs, so few understand dogs. Dogs are canines who evolved in a clear social context and order. They help their group and work together. They have a clear leader. It is a must for their existence. If they do not see a clear 'alpha', they assume they might be and will act accordingly. It has to be quite well established who is in charge in a relationship with canines. If you are not the alpha, you're just another dog.
 

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