Pluto and Surface Air Pressure

[Toddsterpatriot]

The freezing/melting of the Co2 only happens on the big arc of the elliptical orbit. Nice try. The change in surface air pressure is continuous.

Mars' Atmosphere: Composition, Climate & Weather

Mars' atmosphere is over 100 times thinner than Earth's.

www.space.com

"Each winter, up to a third of the mass in Mars' atmosphere condenses to form an icy layer at each of the planet's poles. Every spring, some of the mass within these caps sublimates to rejoin the atmosphere, and the caps visibly shrink as a result," ESA stated.


And you couldn't figure that out - amazing.


On the short arc of the ellipse there is no melt/thaw issue, yet the surface air pressure changes in accordance with distance from Sun too.

So once again, you are chosen to be wrong, because you are wrong, and you are too chosen to admit you are wrong...

The change in surface air pressure is continuous.

Like the change is continuous on Earth. Warmer, lower pressure in the summer, colder, higher pressure in the winter.

 

[ding]

The change in surface air pressure is continuous.

Like the change is continuous on Earth. Warmer, lower pressure in the summer, colder, higher pressure in the winter.

Yep, lower air density (warmer and wetter) in the summer and higher air density (colder and drier) in the winter.

BUT BUT BUT hurricanes and land moving back and forth over the polar regions... and Jews.

 

[EMH]

The change in surface air pressure is continuous.

Like the change is continuous on Earth. Warmer, lower pressure in the summer, colder, higher pressure in the winter.

Well, let's check the data...

Google Search

www.google.com

	Summer	Winter
Typical high	1023 hPa	1034 hPa
Mean value	1017 hPa	1020 hPa
Typical low	1010 hPa	1001 hPa
Very strong low	1000 hPa	973 hPa

Yeah, wow, a whopping 1%.. and when measured year over year the minor day to day fluctuations you endlessly blabber about are rendered just as meaningless.


The Mars winter/summer difference is considerably larger...

The Mars surface air pressure perfectly tracks temperature due to distance from Sun. Earth's orbit may have a factor too, since "winter" is northern hemisphere when Earth is closer to Sun... OH WOW... are we about to BUST the Toddster again....

LOL!!!

Google Search

When Earth is in its winter season (in the Northern Hemisphere), it is closer to the sun, at a point called perihelion, while in summer, it is farther away at a point called aphelion; meaning Earth is closer to the sun during winter, with the distance difference being around 3 million miles between the two seasons



LOL!!!

So, why is Earth surface air pressure higher during NORTHERN HEMISPHERE WINTER????

Perhaps it is mirroring the data from Mars, that DISTANCE TO SUN is the explanation....

 

[EMH]

PV = nRT ...

If we reduce mass, then pressure will be reduced ... at the same temperature ... you folks must have been out with the flu that week in chemistry class eh? ... the ideal GAS formula doesn't apply to liquids or solids ... duh ...

The main difference is that equation is for a rigid container.

A planet's atmosphere is different. It is rigidly contained on one side by Earth, but the other side is "force constrained" by gravity. If you heat Earth's atmosphere, it expands out, negating some of the pressure from your "rigid container" equation.

The "definition" so far online, from what I've seen, of surface air pressure SAP is just the mass of the column of gas above it forced down by gravity, no mention of temperature. But your equation indicates direct correlation with temperature.

And that's essentially what this topic is about.

What happens to SAP when a planet warms. The issue is clouded by melting/boiling points. That is why the skateboard on Mars has documented the correlation goes beyond that issue. There is a dilution, it is not 1/1 like in your rigid equation, but the correlation is there, and real, and needs to be added to every definition of SAP that doesn't already have it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, wow, a whopping 1%.. and when measured year over year the minor day to day fluctuations you endlessly blabber about are rendered just as meaningless.

I know, 1% showing warmer means lower pressure.

Now show the year over year measurements that support your silly claim.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, let's check the data...

Google Search

www.google.com

	Summer	Winter
Typical high	1023 hPa	1034 hPa
Mean value	1017 hPa	1020 hPa
Typical low	1010 hPa	1001 hPa
Very strong low	1000 hPa	973 hPa

Yeah, wow, a whopping 1%.. and when measured year over year the minor day to day fluctuations you endlessly blabber about are rendered just as meaningless.


The Mars winter/summer difference is considerably larger...

The Mars surface air pressure perfectly tracks temperature due to distance from Sun. Earth's orbit may have a factor too, since "winter" is northern hemisphere when Earth is closer to Sun... OH WOW... are we about to BUST the Toddster again....

LOL!!!

Google Search

When Earth is in its winter season (in the Northern Hemisphere), it is closer to the sun, at a point called perihelion, while in summer, it is farther away at a point called aphelion; meaning Earth is closer to the sun during winter, with the distance difference being around 3 million miles between the two seasons



LOL!!!

So, why is Earth surface air pressure higher during NORTHERN HEMISPHERE WINTER????

Perhaps it is mirroring the data from Mars, that DISTANCE TO SUN is the explanation....

So, why is Earth surface air pressure higher during NORTHERN HEMISPHERE WINTER????

Colder means higher surface air pressure.

See, you do get it.

 

[EMH]

So, why is Earth surface air pressure higher during NORTHERN HEMISPHERE WINTER????

Colder means higher surface air pressure.

See, you do get it.

The model of Earth's atmosphere winter/summer is obviously complex. During northern hemisphere winter, the Sun heats the southern hemisphere more than the northern hemisphere. Southern part of atmosphere expands from heat, which "compacts" the colder northern side as gravity levels out the atmosphere. Same thing happens in reverse during summer. But during winter Sun is closer, effect is greater.

So there is a temperature drop in the north during winter, which would lower SAP, and a heat/pressure "compacting" of that colder air from the southern air expanding due to increased heat, which would increase SAP.


And there is the undeniable truth of the Mars skateboard data...

Not certain yet of the total effect, but the simplistic answer you gave is highly incomplete in explaining it.

 

[ReinyDays]

The main difference is that equation is for a rigid container.

A planet's atmosphere is different. It is rigidly contained on one side by Earth, but the other side is "force constrained" by gravity. If you heat Earth's atmosphere, it expands out, negating some of the pressure from your "rigid container" equation.

The "definition" so far online, from what I've seen, of surface air pressure SAP is just the mass of the column of gas above it forced down by gravity, no mention of temperature. But your equation indicates direct correlation with temperature.

And that's essentially what this topic is about.

What happens to SAP when a planet warms. The issue is clouded by melting/boiling points. That is why the skateboard on Mars has documented the correlation goes beyond that issue. There is a dilution, it is not 1/1 like in your rigid equation, but the correlation is there, and real, and needs to be added to every definition of SAP that doesn't already have it.

A container, say a space capsule, is "force constrained" by the electromagnetic force ... gravity does the same thing except the outer side is a gradient rather than a shear wall ...

Also, we define atmospheric pressure as the weight of the column of air above it ... measured in pounds per square inch or newtons per square meter (= pascals), and these are vector values ... as such, temperature changes follow pressure changes ... not the other way around like the fool CCC clowns claim ...

Meteorology is the study of pressure first, which causes weather, which causes temperature ... most folk get that backwards ... there's no correlation if there's cause-and-effect ... and here we have a clear cut cause-and-effect starting with pressure ...

The math is just Navier/Stokes in one dimension, easy enough to build altimeters with:

Hydrostatic equilibrium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the Sun heats the southern hemisphere more than the northern hemisphere. Southern part of atmosphere expands from heat, which "compacts" the colder northern side as gravity levels out the atmosphere.

The cold, "compact" northern side has higher surface air pressure.
The hot, "expanded" southern side has lower surface air pressure.

You figured it out.
I'm so proud.

So there is a temperature drop in the north during winter, which would lower SAP,

Aww shit, you're still a moron.

 

[EMH]

we define atmospheric pressure as the weight of the column of air above it

The Mars skateboard disproves that, it shows temperature is a factor. All three planets have that correlation

warmer = higher surface air pressure

Pluto, Mars, and Earth during Jurassic

Weight is really a force. The force of the gas column "weight" is impacted by temperature. While atmosphere can expand up, there is a force that pushed it up, and that force is heat, the warming of the air column. It applies both up and down. That's what Mars proves.

 

[EMH]

You figured it out.

Nobody has completely. There are different factors at work simultaneously.

But, so far, Mars, Pluto and Jurassic all point in the same direction

higher surface air pressure = warmer

 

[EMH]

Meteorology is the study of pressure first, which causes weather, which causes temperature

We live on a planet with a tilted axis. The study of what happens to surface air pressure on Earth during winter/summer is fascinating, but is far from simplistic.

I do not agree that pressure by itself causes weather and temperature. There are anomalies in that. There is humidity, for example. Pressure does not cause hurricanes, warm water does, initially, which causes a drop in pressure in the eye.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Mars skateboard disproves that, it shows temperature is a factor. All three planets have that correlation

warmer = higher surface air pressure

Pluto, Mars, and Earth during Jurassic

Weight is really a force. The force of the gas column "weight" is impacted by temperature. While atmosphere can expand up, there is a force that pushed it up, and that force is heat, the warming of the air column. It applies both up and down. That's what Mars proves.

During the Jurassic, what was Earth's summer temperature and surface air pressure?

During the Jurassic, what was Earth's winter temperature and surface air pressure?

 

[EMH]

During the Jurassic, what was Earth's summer temperature and surface air pressure?

During the Jurassic, what was Earth's winter temperature and surface air pressure?

Data not that precise.

But, much to the detriment of your case, during Jurassic Earth was

Warmer, Wetter, with HIGHER surface air pressure, much higher...


So here you are...

THE DATA

Earth, Pluto, and Mars all have HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE during warmer times

Mars surface air pressure tracks its temperature

and you haven't even proven that "winter" causes higher SAP because Earth is actually 2-3 million miles closer to the Sun during winter... and hence if it behaves as Mars does behave, and why shouldn't it, the higher SAP you attribute to "winter aka cooling" may actually be from WARMING due to Earth being closer to the Sun....

LOL!!!

 

[EMH]

A container, say a space capsule, is "force constrained" by the electromagnetic force ... gravity does the same thing except the outer side is a gradient rather than a shear wall ...

Also, we define atmospheric pressure as the weight of the column of air above it ... measured in pounds per square inch or newtons per square meter (= pascals), and these are vector values ... as such, temperature changes follow pressure changes ... not the other way around like the fool CCC clowns claim ...

Meteorology is the study of pressure first, which causes weather, which causes temperature ... most folk get that backwards ... there's no correlation if there's cause-and-effect ... and here we have a clear cut cause-and-effect starting with pressure ...

The math is just Navier/Stokes in one dimension, easy enough to build altimeters with:

Hydrostatic equilibrium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting link

Doesn't fully explain what we are getting at...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Data not that precise.

But, much to the detriment of your case, during Jurassic Earth was

Warmer, Wetter, with HIGHER surface air pressure, much higher...


So here you are...

THE DATA

Earth, Pluto, and Mars all have HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE during warmer times

Mars surface air pressure tracks its temperature

and you haven't even proven that "winter" causes higher SAP because Earth is actually 2-3 million miles closer to the Sun during winter... and hence if it behaves as Mars does behave, and why shouldn't it, the higher SAP you attribute to "winter aka cooling" may actually be from WARMING due to Earth being closer to the Sun....

LOL!!!

Data not that precise.

That means it doesn't support your claim.

Earth, Pluto, and Mars all have HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE during warmer times

Except for Earth which goes from warmer, lower pressure in summer to colder, higher pressure in winter.

and you haven't even proven that "winter" causes higher SAP

If you have any data that shows SAP during winter is ever lower than SAP during summer, you should definitely post it here.

 

[EMH]

That means it doesn't support your claim.

It does not exist. Have never seen summer/winter data on Jurassic. Have any reason to believe it does exist?

Except for Earth which goes from warmer, lower pressure in summer to colder, higher pressure in winter.

Still arguing day to day weather when the issue is a 70 year down trend in SAP

If you have any data that shows SAP during winter is ever lower than SAP during summer, you should definitely post it here.

Deliberately dodging the issue of whether or not Earth SAP goes up when Earth is closest to Sun in elliptical orbit.

We know Mars SAP goes up the closer it gets to Sun. Any reason to believe that Earth SAP would not?

The data matches this.... and you really do not like that FACT.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It does not exist. Have never seen summer/winter data on Jurassic. Have any reason to believe it does exist?







Still arguing day to day weather when the issue is a 70 year down trend in SAP







Deliberately dodging the issue of whether or not Earth SAP goes up when Earth is closest to Sun in elliptical orbit.

We know Mars SAP goes up the closer it gets to Sun. Any reason to believe that Earth SAP would not?

The data matches this.... and you really do not like that FACT.

It does not exist. Have never seen summer/winter data on Jurassic.

If the data doesn't exist, why do you feel it supports your claim?

Still arguing day to day weather when the issue is a 70 year down trend in SAP

If every warmer day has lower pressure and every colder day has higher pressure,
what reason have you come up with for the 70-year down trend?

And by reason, I mean reason with actual support, not just your deranged gibbering.

Deliberately dodging the issue of whether or not Earth SAP goes up when Earth is closest to Sun in elliptical orbit.

I'm too busy laughing at you to dodge anything.
Does the surface air pressure for the entire Earth go up at the closest approach to the Sun?
Link?

We know Mars SAP goes up the closer it gets to Sun. Any reason to believe that Earth SAP would not?

Yes.

 

[EMH]

If the data doesn't exist, why do you feel it supports your claim?

Twisting words again. Jurassic supports the claim of WARMER = HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE

Winter/Summer issue is NOISE.

If every warmer day has lower pressure and every colder day has higher pressure

"day?" Are you claiming Planet Earth warms and cools by the day? You are from the Co2 FRAUD. Every single petty up down from dirty uncontrolled oxygen isotope ratio out of one single Antarctic ice core is "proof" of a mini "ice age" for the whole planet...

Your problem is now three planets validating and zero planets refuting

WARMER = HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE

Does the surface air pressure for the entire Earth go up at the closest approach to the Sun?

Already done with link...

The Mars surface air pressure perfectly tracks temperature due to distance from Sun. Earth's orbit may have a factor too, since "winter" is northern hemisphere when Earth is closer to Sun... OH WOW... are we about to BUST the Toddster again....

LOL!!!



https://www.google.com/search?q=earth+orbit+winter+summer+distance+from+sun&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS1003US1003&oq=earth+orbit+winter+summer+distance+from+sun&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l4j33i299l2j33i671l3.17854j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
When Earth is in its winter season (in the Northern Hemisphere), it is closer to the sun, at a point called perihelion, while in summer, it is farther away at a point called aphelion; meaning Earth is closer to the sun during winter, with the distance difference being around 3 million miles between the two seasons

We know Mars SAP goes up the closer it gets to Sun. Any reason to believe that Earth SAP would not?

Yes.

Really....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jurassic supports the claim of WARMER = HIGHER SURFACE AIR PRESSURE

No, it doesn't. Not even a little bit.
What was the temperature and what was the surface pressure?

"day?" Are you claiming Planet Earth warms and cools by the day?

One day at a time baby.

Already done with link...

Do it again.

Really....

Truly.