Pluto and Surface Air Pressure

[ding]

You could always find some fudge-free data that shows SAP increases when the planet warms.

LOL!

I know, who am I kidding? You're too stupid to find real data that supports your stupid claims.

He's like a turd that won't flush.

 

[EMH]

You could always find some fudge-free data that shows SAP increases when the planet warms.

The skateboard on Mars.

Pluto.

You and your pals at WU are fudging data. That's all your side has ever had on any climate issue.


And of course Jurassic = warmer, wetter, higher SAP


And what you are arguing is completely laughable.

Sealed container = AP correlated with temp 100%

AP above sea level = correlated with Temp

But somehow, just on Earth (not Pluto or Mars) you are arguing that SAP is INVERSELY CORRELATED with Temp... because your pals at WU fudged data.

BTW, any idea if Matt Gaetz supports Co2 FRAUd....

 

[ding]

The skateboard on Mars.

Pluto.

You and your pals at WU are fudging data. That's all your side has ever had on any climate issue.


And of course Jurassic = warmer, wetter, higher SAP


And what you are arguing is completely laughable.

Sealed container = AP correlated with temp 100%

AP above sea level = correlated with Temp

But somehow, just on Earth (not Pluto or Mars) you are arguing that SAP is INVERSELY CORRELATED with Temp... because your pals at WU fudged data.

BTW, any idea if Matt Gaetz supports Co2 FRAUd....

You are speaking gibberish.

 

[ding]

SAP increases on Mars and Pluto when those planets warm.

Earth's atmospheric pressure does change slightly throughout its orbit around the sun, primarily due to the changing amount of solar radiation received at different points in the orbit, which affects the temperature of the atmosphere and subsequently its pressure; however, these changes are relatively small and are largely masked by other factors like local weather patterns and seasonal variations.

 

[EMH]

Earth's atmospheric pressure does change slightly throughout its orbit around the sun, primarily due to the changing amount of solar radiation received at different points in the orbit, which affects the temperature of the atmosphere and subsequently its pressure; however, these changes are relatively small and are largely masked by other factors like local weather patterns and seasonal variations.

And this is what happens on Mars to SAP during its elliptical orbit....

So indeed, as a planet gets closer to Sun and WARMS because of that, its SAP rises...

 

[ding]

And this is what happens on Mars to SAP during its elliptical orbit....

So indeed, as a planet gets closer to Sun and WARMS because of that, its SAP rises...

This is earth, not Mars. Your argument is illogical and shows your stupidity.

 

[EMH]

This is earth, not Mars. Your argument is illogical and shows your stupidity.

Why would Earth be different than Mars and Pluto?

 

[ding]

Why would Earth be different than Mars and Pluto?

The composition of our atmosphere and the presence of oceans on it's surface. I've already explained how SAP is calculated on earth.

Atmospheric pressure equals the average pressure gradient of air in psi/ft times the column height of air.

The average pressure gradient of air is based upon the density of air.

The density of air is based upon the molar composition of air and adjusted for temperature.

You bringing up Mars and Pluto is a wild goose chase that has no bearing on earth's atmosphere and subsequent calculation of SAP.

 

[ReinyDays]

Earth's atmospheric pressure does change slightly throughout its orbit around the sun, primarily due to the changing amount of solar radiation received at different points in the orbit, which affects the temperature of the atmosphere and subsequently its pressure; however, these changes are relatively small and are largely masked by other factors like local weather patterns and seasonal variations.

Plus we don't measure temperatures that accurately ... International standards only call for thermometers to be ± 0.5ºC ... or recorded to the nearest whole degree ... in a seal vessel (constant volume and mass), I get 1 millibar pressure increase for a 1ºC temperature increase ... in an open vessel (constant pressure and mass), only volume increases with temperature ...

I know what you're thinking, the atmosphere is somewhere in between the two sets of conditions I set out above ... thus temperature would increase both in some manner of equilibrium function ... except that's not how we define pressure ... this is the weight of the air column above our unit area ... 14.7 pounds-force per square inch or 101,300 newtons per square meter ... volume is considered infinite, or specifically the atmosphere merges with the interplanetary medium ... out there past lunar orbit someplace ... there's a "vacuum" of knowledge in this part of the universe ...

If anything, the added volume pushes the mass further from the center of gravity, and weight follows the inverse square of distance laws ... thus same mass, less weight, less pressure ...

 

[ding]

Plus we don't measure temperatures that accurately ... International standards only call for thermometers to be ± 0.5ºC ... or recorded to the nearest whole degree ... in a seal vessel (constant volume and mass), I get 1 millibar pressure increase for a 1ºC temperature increase ... in an open vessel (constant pressure and mass), only volume increases with temperature ...

I know what you're thinking, the atmosphere is somewhere in between the two sets of conditions I set out above ... thus temperature would increase both in some manner of equilibrium function ... except that's not how we define pressure ... this is the weight of the air column above our unit area ... 14.7 pounds-force per square inch or 101.3 newtons per square meter ... volume is considered infinite, or specifically the atmosphere merges with the interplanetary medium ... out there past lunar orbit someplace ... there's a "vacuum" of knowledge in this part of the universe ...

If anything, the added volume pushes the mass further from the center of gravity, and weight follows the inverse square of distance laws ... thus same mass, less weight, less pressure ...

And don't forget the dynamic relationship between temperature and water vapor. The changing composition of air due to the changing water content of air which is a function of temperature is a bigger component in the weight of the column of air than the temperature change itself.

 

[ReinyDays]

And don't forget the dynamic relationship between temperature and water vapor. The changing composition of air due to the changing water content of air which is a function of temperature is a bigger component in the weight of the column of air than the temperature change itself.

9.2 grams of water vapor in a kilogram of dry air at 13ºC ... 9.9 g/kg at 14ºC ...

Water vapor is the least massive of our gas species at 18 g/mole ... next is nitrogen at 28 g/mole ... so we're adding very very little mass ...

You are aware Earth's center of gravity moves around on a day-to-day basis ... and gravity is irregular around the globe ... but do we measure temperature that closely? ... I say no ... we can ignore Jupiter's gravitation effect on Earth's surface pressure ... even Alpha Centauri has a gravitation effect on Earth's lower atmosphere, just safely ignored is all ...

ETA: Consider lunar tides ... does that change pressure, or does it change volume? ... there's more than enough hard data, we should be able to make the connection right away ... there just isn't any connection ...

 

[ding]

9.2 grams of water vapor in a kilogram of dry air at 13ºC ... 9.9 g/kg at 14ºC ...

Water vapor is the least massive of our gas species at 18 g/mole ... next is nitrogen at 28 g/mole ... so we're adding very very little mass ...

You are aware Earth's center of gravity moves around on a day-to-day basis ... and gravity is irregular around the globe ... but do we measure temperature that closely? ... I say no ... we can ignore Jupiter's gravitation effect on Earth's surface pressure ... even Alpha Centauri has a gravitation effect on Earth's lower atmosphere, just safely ignored is all ...

ETA: Consider lunar tides ... does that change pressure, or does it change volume? ... there's more than enough hard data, we should be able to make the connection right away ... there just isn't any connection ...

It's not adding mass. It's a displacement. Increase water vapor lightens the mass/weight of the air column. Remember... the atmosphere isn't a fixed volume.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

9.2 grams of water vapor in a kilogram of dry air at 13ºC ... 9.9 g/kg at 14ºC ...

Water vapor is the least massive of our gas species at 18 g/mole ... next is nitrogen at 28 g/mole ... so we're adding very very little mass ...

You are aware Earth's center of gravity moves around on a day-to-day basis ... and gravity is irregular around the globe ... but do we measure temperature that closely? ... I say no ... we can ignore Jupiter's gravitation effect on Earth's surface pressure ... even Alpha Centauri has a gravitation effect on Earth's lower atmosphere, just safely ignored is all ...

ETA: Consider lunar tides ... does that change pressure, or does it change volume? ... there's more than enough hard data, we should be able to make the connection right away ... there just isn't any connection ...

I think we can all agree that EMH's claims that "the slight decrease in SAP over the last 60 years or so is because the planet is cooling" and "if all the glaciers and ice caps melted, SAP would increase to 3-5 bars" are the signs of a serious mental defect.

Either that, or we all work for the Mossad, spreading fake global warming info.

 

[ReinyDays]

It's not adding mass. It's a displacement. Increase water vapor lightens the mass/weight of the air column. Remember... the atmosphere isn't a fixed volume.

What are you displacing? ... we add the individual partial pressures of each of the gas species present to get total surface pressure ...

Dalton's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Actually, as stated by Dalton's law (known since 1802), the partial pressure of water vapor or any substance does not depend on air at all, and the relevant temperature is that of the liquid. Nevertheless, the erroneous belief persists among the public and even meteorologists, aided by the misleading terms saturation pressure and supersaturation and the related definition of relative humidity."

 

[ReinyDays]

I think we can all agree that EMH's claims that "the slight decrease in SAP over the last 60 years or so is because the planet is cooling" and "if all the glaciers and ice caps melted, SAP would increase to 3-5 bars" are the signs of a serious mental defect.

Either that, or we all work for the Mossad, spreading fake global warming info.

Single working mom has to leave brat boy for the internet to babysit ...

[wink wink nudge nudge] ... אני עובד במוסד מאז מלחמת יום הכיפורים

 

[ding]

What are you displacing?

Drier air. Again the volume of the atmosphere is not fixed. If water from the oceans, rivers, streams, ponds, lakes, etc moves into the atmosphere it mixes with the air thus expanding the volume of the atmosphere. That mixing displaces drier air with water vapor, lowers the density of the air and thus decreases atmospheric pressure. This process works in reverse too. When water vapor leaves the atmosphere it is displaced by drier air, increases the density of air and increases atmospheric pressure.

Do you agree or disagree with this?

 

[ding]

we add the individual partial pressures of each of the gas species present to get total surface pressure ...

Sure, but that says nothing about changing compositions. If you are adding water vapor to the existing composition and keeping the volume the same then atmospheric pressure would increase as water vapor increases. That's not what the empirical evidence shows to be happening; i.e. high pressure = drier air, low pressure = wetter air.

 

[ding]

"Actually, as stated by Dalton's law (known since 1802), the partial pressure of water vapor or any substance does not depend on air at all, and the relevant temperature is that of the liquid. Nevertheless, the erroneous belief persists among the public and even meteorologists, aided by the misleading terms saturation pressure and supersaturation and the related definition of relative humidity."

Ok, then how would you explain high pressure = drier air and low pressure = wetter air?

 

[ding]

The whole conversation around temperature and distance to the sun is mind boggling. Pressure is a function of fluid density. It's the column of mass that determines pressure. And that is a function of the density of the fluid. Temperature is an adjustment. The driver is density (i.e. mass per unit volume).

EMH is intentionally muddying the water. He's a turd that won't flush down.

 

[ReinyDays]

Drier air. Again the volume of the atmosphere is not fixed. If water from the oceans, rivers, streams, ponds, lakes, etc moves into the atmosphere it mixes with the air thus expanding the volume of the atmosphere. That mixing displaces drier air with water vapor, lowers the density of the air and thus decreases atmospheric pressure. This process works in reverse too. When water vapor leaves the atmosphere it is displaced by drier air, increases the density of air and increases atmospheric pressure.

Do you agree or disagree with this?

I disagree for the reasons already stated, and I included an experiment to demonstrate the principles ... you're confusing density with pressure, they are related but they are not the same thing ...

This is a gas, not a liquid, there's plenty of room in between molecules to fit more molecules ... any density changes (less than 1% btw) is compensated by changes in volume ... as you said, we have unbounded volume ...