PLEASE EXPLAIN: How will I get $4000 increase in my income if corporate taxes go down?

[g5000]

Nunes: "If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."

I bet you fools don't even know who Nunes is, and what position of importance he holds.

This is the authority on who is raping your ass.

So now the Republicans have given up and surrendered to the special interests. They are lowering the corporate tax rate without removing "everybody's special loophole".

THAT is why this is a DEFICIT boondoggle, and YOU are going to pay for it.

But you tards are being fed a fucking lie that it will make you richer. You are totally bleeving you are going to get a fucking cookie.

That's how they get the Tard Herd to go along with it. That's why you have been deliberately dumbed down all these years, so you fall for these hoaxes.

Do you know how tragically hilarious you sound when you defend this with your dimwitted responses and red herrings and logical fallacies?

You are being ass-raped and defending the rapists. You are willfully stupid submissives.

 

[jc456]

Nunes: "If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."

I bet you fools don't even know who Nunes is, and what position of importance he holds.

This is the authority on who is raping your ass.

So now the Republicans have given up and surrendered to the special interests. They are lowering the corporate tax rate without removing "everybody's special loophole".

THAT is why this is a DEFICIT boondoggle, and YOU are going to pay for it.

But you tards are being fed a fucking lie that it will make you richer. You are totally bleeving you are going to get a fucking cookie.

Do you know how tragically hilarious you sound when you defend this with your dimwitted responses and red herrings and logical fallacies?

You are being ass-raped and defending the rapists. You are willfully stupid submissives.

yep so? he has an opinion. He states facts about the past. today is today, and Trump is there. Lobbyists are unwelcomed guests.

Plus they will be bringing trillions back on shore with repatriation.

 

[g5000]

I want a 20 percent corporate tax rate more than anyone on this forum. My history here proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But I want it done the RIGHT way.

Instead, you fucking pseudocon retards who have hijacked the conservative movement are giving a green light to the WRONG way. A robbery. An ass raping. Because you don't know fucking simple math or economics or how tax expenditures are paid for, even though I have explained it to you hundreds of times.

 

[g5000]

Nunes: "If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."

I bet you fools don't even know who Nunes is, and what position of importance he holds.

This is the authority on who is raping your ass.

So now the Republicans have given up and surrendered to the special interests. They are lowering the corporate tax rate without removing "everybody's special loophole".

THAT is why this is a DEFICIT boondoggle, and YOU are going to pay for it.

But you tards are being fed a fucking lie that it will make you richer. You are totally bleeving you are going to get a fucking cookie.

Do you know how tragically hilarious you sound when you defend this with your dimwitted responses and red herrings and logical fallacies?

You are being ass-raped and defending the rapists. You are willfully stupid submissives.

yep so? he has an opinion. He states facts about the past. today is today, and Trump is there. Lobbyists are unwelcomed guests.

You stupid fuck. He does NOT have an OPINION. He is speaking from his personal knowledge as the Chairman of the House Ways and Means committee, you unbelievably fucking stupid retard.

 

[jc456]

I want a 20 percent corporate tax rate more than anyone on this forum. My history here proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But I want it done the RIGHT way.

Instead, you fucking pseudocon retards who have hijacked the conservative movement are giving a green light to the WRONG way. A robbery. An ass raping. Because you don't know fucking simple math or economics or how tax expenditures are paid for, even though I have explained it to you hundreds of times.

the right way? now you just sound like a fking idiot.

 

[jc456]

Nunes: "If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."

I bet you fools don't even know who Nunes is, and what position of importance he holds.

This is the authority on who is raping your ass.

So now the Republicans have given up and surrendered to the special interests. They are lowering the corporate tax rate without removing "everybody's special loophole".

THAT is why this is a DEFICIT boondoggle, and YOU are going to pay for it.

But you tards are being fed a fucking lie that it will make you richer. You are totally bleeving you are going to get a fucking cookie.

Do you know how tragically hilarious you sound when you defend this with your dimwitted responses and red herrings and logical fallacies?

You are being ass-raped and defending the rapists. You are willfully stupid submissives.

yep so? he has an opinion. He states facts about the past. today is today, and Trump is there. Lobbyists are unwelcomed guests.

You stupid fuck. He does NOT have an OPINION. He is speaking from his personal knowledge as a key member of the House Ways and Means committee, you unbelievably fucking stupid retard.

that never included repatriation of money. did it?

 

[g5000]

I want a 20 percent corporate tax rate more than anyone on this forum. My history here proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But I want it done the RIGHT way.

Instead, you fucking pseudocon retards who have hijacked the conservative movement are giving a green light to the WRONG way. A robbery. An ass raping. Because you don't know fucking simple math or economics or how tax expenditures are paid for, even though I have explained it to you hundreds of times.

the right way? now you just sound like a fking idiot.

You are just too stupid to deal with. Seriously. You are one of the most willfully stupid idiots on this forum, and that is saying a lot.

 

[g5000]

I knew these tards had no clue who Nunes is. And jc456 just proved it.

 

[jc456]

I want a 20 percent corporate tax rate more than anyone on this forum. My history here proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But I want it done the RIGHT way.

Instead, you fucking pseudocon retards who have hijacked the conservative movement are giving a green light to the WRONG way. A robbery. An ass raping. Because you don't know fucking simple math or economics or how tax expenditures are paid for, even though I have explained it to you hundreds of times.

the right way? now you just sound like a fking idiot.

You are just too stupid to deal with. Seriously. You are one of the most willfully stupid idiots on this forum, and that is saying a lot.

fk dude, you act like I care your fking opinion. In case you want to know, I give two shits your opinion of me. really. your game is old, and tiresome, it's like 50 years old now. time to move on and let the economics get done and bring employment back correctly unsubsidized.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Can any explain Trump's claim that a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent would boost incomes of U.S. workers by at least $4,000 a year?

Let me explain...lets say there is One corporation and Nine regular people ...the Corporation gets a $40,000 dollar tax cut and the 9 regular people get nothing in tax cut however the Average tax cut of the corporation and the nine people is $4000 so the nine people have it made and should not complain or else...

 

[g5000]

Can any explain Trump's claim that a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent would boost incomes of U.S. workers by at least $4,000 a year?

Let me explain...lets say there is One corporation and Nine regular people ...the Corporation gets a $40,000 dollar tax cut and the 9 regular people get nothing in tax cut however the Average tax cut of the corporation and the nine people is $4000 so the nine people have it made and should not complain or else...

In the OP, the Trump Administration has assumed lowering the corporate tax rate will stimulate the economy, thereby increasing worker wages.

However, they have completely ignored the fact that increasing the debt will actually continue to choke the economy, and suppress wage growth.

Not only is the Trump Administration choosing to not lower the debt, Trump is trying to INCREASE the debt, thus asphyxiating growth even more.

 

[SeaGal]

Bottom line - $4000 raise claim is bullshit

[/thread]

I read the first 100 posts - I got tired of the whining, childish personal attacks, and misdirection - and I didn't see an answer to the original question.

So - here is the analysis the generated the claim. https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/documents/Tax Reform and Wages.pdf

From it, I quote the summary: (the justification data is presented in the actual report.)

Wage growth in America has stagnated. Over the past eight years, the real median wage in the U.S. rose by an average of six-tenths of a percent per year. But even as Americans’ real wages stagnated, real corporate profits soared, increasing by an average of 11 percent per year. The relationship between corporate profits and worker compensation broke down in the late 1980s. Prior to 1990, worker wages rose by more than 1 percent for every 1 percent increase in corporate profits. From 1990-2016, the pass-through to workers was only 0.6 percent, and looking most recently, from 2008-2016, only 0.3 percent.1 The profits of U.S. multinationals are still American profits, but, increasingly, the benefits of those profits do not accrue to U.S. workers.

The deteriorating relationship between wages of American workers and U.S. corporate profits reflects the state of international tax competition. The problem is not unique to America; countries around the world have responded to the international flow of capital by cutting their corporate tax rates to attract capital back from other countries. They have doubled down on such policies as they have seen business-friendly policies benefit workers.

This analysis from the Council of Economic Advisers reviews the evidence that has driven other developed countries to pursue the path of lower corporate tax rates and estimates how business tax reform in the Unified Framework for Fixing Our Broken Tax Code2 (hereafter, the “Unified Framework”) is expected to affect wages for American workers.

Reducing the statutory federal corporate tax rate from 35 to 20 percent would, the analysis below suggests, increase average household income in the United States by, very conservatively, $4,000 annually. The increases recur each year, and the estimated total value of corporate tax reform for the average U.S. household is therefore substantially higher than $4,000. Moreover, the broad range of results in the literature suggest that over a decade, this effect could be much larger.

These conclusions are driven by empirical patterns that are highly visible in the data, in addition to an extensive peer-reviewed research. While much of the academic literature predates the latest data, the covariation between the trajectory of inflation-adjusted wages ..."

Dispute it at your leisure - but, at least, the question has been answered. However, you can't dispute it with opinion - you must refute facts with facts.

Have fun.

The fact that over the last 8 years wages have been stagnant while corporate profits have soared, along with very little economic growth, is an indication that we need to try a different approach.

So my answer was going to be : (from the paper)
...the covariation between the trajectory of inflation-adjusted wages and statutory corporate tax rates (Federal and sub-Federal) between the most-taxed and least-taxed developed countries (OECD) over recent years, visible in Figure 1, is indicative of these papers’ findings. Data backed by empirical evidence and peer- reviewed research.

Until I realized that the OP posted a link to the paper with the answers and explanations - and all one needed to do was read it...leading me to believe that the question was merely rhetorical and the OP wasn't interested in an answer.

As the Obama-pologists aren't interested in addressing this...
...taking out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, adding to the debt...is irresponsible, it's unpatriotic.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Not only is the Trump Administration choosing to not lower the debt, Trump is trying to INCREASE the debt, thus asphyxiating growth even more.

and the storied anti deficit Freedom Caucus is Rolling over like a trained puppy dog

 

[Wry Catcher]

How much of our energy usage is supplied by solar energy today?

Solar and wind combined make up 10% of US electricity, which is up from less than 1% in 2010.

The U.S. set a new renewable energy milestone in March, in data released Wednesday. For the first time, wind and solar accounted for 10 percent of all electricity generation, with wind comprising 8 percent and solar coming in at 2 percent.​

While fossil fuels still dominate energy production overall in the U.S., solar and wind production are on a growth trajectory (especially in China, India, and some other developing countries, as well as parts of Europe). 2015 was the first record-setting year that more new infrastructure for renewable energy was installed than new infrastructure for nonrenewable energy.​

You say solar supplies 2% but takes more workers than all fossil fuels.

View attachment 156846

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

According to the EIA, larger scale solar is 0.9% of 4.08 trillion kWh, about 37 billion KhW.
Small-scale solar, another 19 billion kWh.
Call it 56 billion kWh, or about 1.4%.

Natural gas and coal, 64.2%.

Fossil fuels provide more than 45 times the power, with fewer workers.

That's why I can honestly say solar power jobs have low productivity.

I have a black garden hose (actually three of them). Leaving the hose off but with water in them creates water in a short time to hot to handle. Decades ago my neighbor added black PC pipe along his fence in a loop to loop which he added to the out part of his water filter, diverted to the pipe, and when it emptied into the pool, was too hot to touch.

Solar power is very simple.

 

[jc456]

Can any explain Trump's claim that a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent would boost incomes of U.S. workers by at least $4,000 a year?

Let me explain...lets say there is One corporation and Nine regular people ...the Corporation gets a $40,000 dollar tax cut and the 9 regular people get nothing in tax cut however the Average tax cut of the corporation and the nine people is $4000 so the nine people have it made and should not complain or else...

In the OP, the Trump Administration has assumed lowering the corporate tax rate will stimulate the economy, thereby increasing worker wages.

However, they have completely ignored the fact that increasing the debt will actually continue to choke the economy, and suppress wage growth.

Not only is the Trump Administration choosing to not lower the debt, Trump is trying to INCREASE the debt, thus asphyxiating growth even more.

there is absolutely no deal that can be done with taxes that will lower the debt. none. Now you can argue with me all you want, but until congress cuts spending, that will never happen. And we already know increasing taxes chokes the economics. You wish to challenge me here?

So, we need jobs. period. need em. we need employees to get a wage increase. period

Since you are the fking genius to this all, what can they do to make the last two items happen and bring down the debt. I'll wait.

 

[Dragonlady]

More from The Heritage: How the United States’ High Debt Will Weaken the Economy and Hurt Americans

Academic research shows that advanced economies like the United States are at risk of significant and prolonged reductions in economic growth when public debt reaches levels of 90 percent of GDP. High public debt threatens to drive interest rates up, to crowd out private investment, and to raise price inflation. The implications would be severe and pronounced for all Americans, but most especially for the poor, the elderly, and the middle class. U.S. policymakers should learn from Greece and Japan and avoid a fiscal crisis and economic stagnation brought about by public debt overhang.

so why wasn't obammy bringing down the debt?

"B-b-b-b-b-but Obaaaaaamaaaaaaa!"

"It's Okay When Trump Does It!™"

trump hasn't done shit yet, we're waiting on congress. did you forget that? and again, if it is soooooo turrible why wasn't obammmy challenged?

Republicans just passed a budget to add $15 trillion to debt in the next 10 years, after spending the past 8 years complaining bitterly about Obama's steadily declining deficits. I guess for Republicans it's "Don't do as I do, do as I Say" when it comes to the deficit.

 

[xotoxi]

Can any explain Trump's claim that a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent would boost incomes of U.S. workers by at least $4,000 a year?

The White House Council of Economic Advisers put out a paper this week that says:

"Reducing the statutory federal corporate tax rate from 35 to 20 percent would, the analysis below suggests, increase average household income in the United States by, very conservatively, $4,000 annually."

I suppose that if you average all of the households in America, and include the millions of dollars that the CEOs from corporations will get as well as the $0 that everyone else gets, it might average out to $4,000.

But I don't see any way that my household income will increase by $4,000.



At this point, Trump is a liar until someone can come forward and prove that he is not.

Trickle down

They will pass down the saved taxes in higher wages

Didn't your pay get increased the last time we cut taxes?

Decreasing taxes does not cause trickle down.

The only thing that causes trickle down is enlarging prostates.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's right, screw those corporations.
Raise their rates even higher.

What could go wrong?

They are failing now, right? Look at the DOW.

My portfolio, it keeps getting larger!!!

During the Obama years, the Dow went up 300%, and yet I can't recall any of you tards thanking him or giving him credit.

What did he do to encourage business?
You have a list? Just your top 5.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

well dip, if someone doesn't make 100,000 it is tough to get them that amount right? so what is it you think is fair? do you even have a clue? even if you took all of the 1 out of 25's money, it doesn't do anything to the debt. and someone getting 4K back is better than 0 isn't it? why are you consumed with the 1 guy? I don't get it. do you do math? do you do percentages? if not you should go to school and learn what that means.

It's interesting how the ignorant twats think a flat tax is "unfair"

If we are all taxed at (FOR EXAMPLE) 20%.....then the guy earning a TAXABLE INCOME OF $10,000 would pay $2000 in taxes and the guy earning a TAXABLE INCOME OF $1m is paying $200,000 in taxes.


How is that not "fair"?

What is the exact rate to make the "wealthy" pay their "fair share"?

well they won't answer that question. that is the end of the discussion. until they explain what they mean by fair, there is going to be absolutely zero intelligent discussions that can be had to agree. I've been waiting for five years for what is fair?

Please left losers, what is a fair tax system? please we are fking waiting

Answer the question in the OP first.

How is a corporate tax cut going to put $4,000 in a person's home?

We are fucking waiting.

dude the answer is in the document. did you read it?

"This analysis from the Council of Economic Advisers reviews the evidence that has driven other developed countries to pursue the path of lower corporate tax rates and estimates how business tax reform in the Unified Framework for Fixing Our Broken Tax Code2 (hereafter, the “Unified Framework”) is expected to affect wages for American workers. Reducing the statutory federal corporate tax rate from 35 to 20 percent would, the analysis below suggests, increase average household income in the United States by, very conservatively, $4,000 annually. The increases recur each year, and the estimated total value of corporate tax reform for the average U.S. household is therefore substantially higher than $4,000. Moreover, the broad range of results in the literature suggest that over a decade, this effect could be much larger"

Notice the key words "expected" , "suggests", "estimated".

What they don't tell you is that this tax plan will increase out debt by $1.5 trillion and that larger and larger national debts SUPPRESS household income.

https://money.usnews.com/money/pers.../2011/03/31/how-the-national-debt-affects-you

Funny, I have not heard a single one of you complain about Trump adding to the debt.

It's Okay When Trump Does It!™

larger and larger national debts SUPPRESS household income.

So Obama's new $9.3 trillion suppressed household income?

Funny, I have not heard a single one of you complain about Trump adding to the debt.

Trump should cut spending by 60%.
After Obama's awesome recovery, this late in the cycle the budget should be balanced.

 

[Winston]

I see a metric ton of red herrings, tu quoque fallacies, and straw men.

But not one single person has explained how cutting the corporate tax rate will add $4,000 to the average household.

Well, I looked over the paper and reviewed the sources. The four grand does not come from domestic companies handing out raises to their employees because of their increase in profits. The four grand comes from overseas companies that, with the lower corporate tax rate, will move capital from their operations in other countries to the United States. That expansion will increase competition for the limited supply of labor and thereby drive up wages.

Now, there are several problems with that analysis. FIrst, the primary source of that movement of capital is a Russian economic model that is rarely used in the United States. The numbers plugged in to that model include a current EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate of over 35%. Now that might be the stated rate, but with current tax incentives, rebates, and credits the EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate is usually calculated at less than 25%. Second, the studies only examined corporate tax rates. They did not calculate the VAT most European nations imposed. So when one European country with a VAT cuts it's corporate tax rate companies might move capital in to that country from another country that also has a VAT. That does not translate in to those companies moving capital in to a country that does not have a VAT. Perhaps more importantly, when those foreign companies move capital in to the United States and begin to hire workers they will have to provide HEALTH CARE to their workers. They don't have to do that in any other modern economy. Then there is our outdated infrastructure. The study assumes companies will move capital in to the country despite our outdated infrastructure. Again, the United States lags behind most modern economies when it comes to infrastructure, from highways to airports to rail.

In short, the analysis is disingenuous at best. It utilizes an inflated current effective tax rate and bases the transfer of capital to the United States on previous transfer of capital between mostly European economies. It ignores the historical record of previous corporate tax cuts in the United States that have always resulted in an increase in wealth inequality and the suppression of wages. I will state it again, with an effective corporate tax rate of 35% a dollar raise costs a company sixty five cents. When that tax rate declines to 20% it costs that same company eighty cents to hand out a dollar raise. Does anyone really believe those companies will start handing out raises when the "price" of that raise increases?