Pilot uses video and explains helicopter crashed both aircraft

[Robert W]

They were too high. That contributed, but we don't know if that was an error or due to faulty instruments.

The Tower was understaffed that day because they let someone go home sick. Most of our ATC towers are understaffed these days.

The airliner was diverted from one landing strip to another.

Now, the other thing that is a factor is they keep cramming more and more flights into Reagan international airport so that the Congresscritters don't have to take connecting flights. That airport is well over capacity.

Why the airspace near Reagan Washington National Airport has long been a concern

Some experts, politicians and airport managers have been warning of the risks posed by the crowded airspace at Reagan Washington National Airport.

www.usatoday.com

That is what I said long ago, that they were too high. It more than contributed, it is the cause. The chances of being faulty instruments is in the millions against. I wonder if they wore night vision which is talked about as a cause of them hitting the jet. The notion the tower was understaffed directly attacks the Tower personnel. They had been safely diverting flights to Runway 33 and had no problems at all. As to Reagan dealing with too many aircraft, I have no comment since I have not studied that at all. Reading the press invites non pilots to tell stories that they have no professional knowledge of.
This is your problem in fact. You are talking to pilots here and ignoring their professional experience.

 

[JoeB131]

That is what I said long ago, that they were too high.

And the tower was understaffed.
And there are too many damned planes flying into Reagan'
And the airliner made a last minute runway change.

All contributing factors.

I wonder if they wore night vision which is talked about as a cause of them hitting the jet.

Well, when you have an answer, let me know. (I kind of doubt it, it looks like the copter was illuminated.)

The notion the tower was understaffed directly attacks the Tower personnel.

No, it's a statement of fact, Air Traffic Control towers are generally understaffed. This particular one had a guy go home early, so one guy was handling two stations.

 

[Robert W]

And the airliner made a last minute runway change.

That was normal at that time of day. Any change as you put it was because the ATC people told the plane to change. Still the helicopter was flying under visual flight rules. Because you are not a pilot, you got confused over this term. It means the Helicopter was to fly from 100 feet up to 200 feet. And it was too high. It slammed into the passenger jet who was where it was supposed to be.

 

[Robert W]

Well, when you have an answer, let me know. (I kind of doubt it, it looks like the copter was illuminated.)

FAA announced today (at least it was on my news today) that the helicopter crew wore night vision. And that means their vision was reduced due to many lights at Reagan. For some reason you pretend to be a pilot. I am one so know the laws.

Why are you so unwilling to learn facts?

 

[Robert W]

And the tower was understaffed.
And there are too many damned planes flying into Reagan'
And the airliner made a last minute runway change.

All contributing factors.


Well, when you have an answer, let me know. (I kind of doubt it, it looks like the copter was illuminated.)



No, it's a statement of fact, Air Traffic Control towers are generally understaffed. This particular one had a guy go home early, so one guy was handling two stations.

The crew of the helicopter that collided midair with an American Airlines jet near Washington D.C.’s Ronald Reagan National Airport might not have heard instructions from the air traffic controller to pass behind the plane, investigators said Friday.

National Transportation Safety Board Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy said the recording from the Black Hawk helicopter cockpit suggests the crew may have missed the key instruction just before the Jan. 29 collision, in which all 67 aboard the two aircraft were killed.

Homendy said the helicopter was on a check flight that night when the pilot was being tested on the use of night vision goggles and flying by instruments. Investigators believe the crew was wearing night vision goggles throughout the flight.

 

[Robert W]

And the tower was understaffed.

If there are not enough cops, will you crash your car? Your problem centers on you not understanding what pilots must do all the time.

 

[Robert W]

And the tower was understaffed.
And there are too many damned planes flying into Reagan'
And the airliner made a last minute runway change.

All contributing factors.


Well, when you have an answer, let me know. (I kind of doubt it, it looks like the copter was illuminated.)



No, it's a statement of fact, Air Traffic Control towers are generally understaffed. This particular one had a guy go home early, so one guy was handling two stations.

 

[JoeB131]

That was normal at that time of day. Any change as you put it was because the ATC people told the plane to change. Still the helicopter was flying under visual flight rules. Because you are not a pilot, you got confused over this term. It means the Helicopter was to fly from 100 feet up to 200 feet. And it was too high. It slammed into the passenger jet who was where it was supposed to be.

Actually, did you see the NTSB briefing yesterday.

Two things came out of it.

First, the Helicopter was only 78 feet above its ceiling, and it might have been due to a faulty altimeter.

Second, the tower DID tell them there was an airliner heading towards them, but it's not clear that they got the instruction according to their flight recorder.

Whoops.

But let's fix all our problems by firing half the government and make the rest want to find other employment. That'll fix things.

 

[JoeB131]

If there are not enough cops, will you crash your car? Your problem centers on you not understanding what pilots must do all the time.

Will I crash the car, no.

But if I know that a certain area doesn't have particularly strong enforcement, I might be more inclined to speed.

Nothing to do with the fact that the ATC diverted a plane into the helicopter's path and didn't give them an adequate warning they had done so.

 

[Robert W]

Nothing to do with the fact that the ATC diverted a plane into the helicopter's path and didn't give them an adequate warning they had done so.

No, ATC instructed the Helicopter pilot who stated she had the plane in sight to fly behind it and below the plane. The facts do not say what you say. Both the chopper and the passenger jet had the same warning.

 

[Robert W]

First, the Helicopter was only 78 feet above its ceiling, and it might have been due to a faulty altimeter.

Second, the tower DID tell them there was an airliner heading towards them, but it's not clear that they got the instruction according to their flight recorder.

I listened to a Helicopter pilot who flew military choppers and he said he had flown that same route many times. He said on TV he never flew higher than 100 feet to avoid such collisions. I told you it was not the Towers fault. Glad you are convinced now.

I posted for you especially the full video of the NTSA giving explanations. Did you watch it?

Why are you so eager to claim the military chopper was not the cause? I don't say she did it on purpose. She wore night goggles and had limited visibility. She was talking to the flight instructor on her helicopter. All those eyes should have avoided the passenger jet.

Somebody on the helicopter keyed the radio and apparently they did not hear fly behind the passenger jet. We know this much, the passenger jet pilots did nothing wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

No, ATC instructed the Helicopter pilot who stated she had the plane in sight to fly behind it and below the plane. The facts do not say what you say. Both the chopper and the passenger jet had the same warning.

not what they said yesterday...but okay.

I listened to a Helicopter pilot who flew military choppers and he said he had flown that same route many times. He said on TV he never flew higher than 100 feet to avoid such collisions. I told you it was not the Towers fault. Glad you are convinced now.

What the fuck are you talking about. It's the Tower's fault if the helicopter didn't get the warning in time and perhaps didn't even hear it. Which is what happens when you are understaffed, monitoring two stations, and they keep sticking extra flights into your airport.

Why are you so eager to claim the military chopper was not the cause? I don't say she did it on purpose. She wore night goggles and had limited visibility. She was talking to the flight instructor on her helicopter. All those eyes should have avoided the passenger jet.

You've only speculated she was wearing night goggles. She had a complete crew on her copter. the fact is, the briefing seems to indicated they didn't get the warning about the jet, and the altimeter told them they were lower than they actually were.

Again, this is a combination of issues, not just the helicopter. An overcrowded airport with an understaffed ATC tower.

 

[Winco]

Robert is just so eager to blame the crash on a woman

Just say it robert
You think women are inferior and she alone is at fault.

 

[Robert W]

not what they said yesterday...but okay.



What the fuck are you talking about. It's the Tower's fault if the helicopter didn't get the warning in time and perhaps didn't even hear it. Which is what happens when you are understaffed, monitoring two stations, and they keep sticking extra flights into your airport.



You've only speculated she was wearing night goggles. She had a complete crew on her copter. the fact is, the briefing seems to indicated they didn't get the warning about the jet, and the altimeter told them they were lower than they actually were.

Again, this is a combination of issues, not just the helicopter. An overcrowded airport with an understaffed ATC tower.

You simply do not want to understand. I am done with you on this topic. You keep making stuff up. I can comment on the staff at the tower but why? Do you have a clue why we pilots are called the pilot in command? I have tried to inform you. It is wasting my time.

 

[JoeB131]

You simply do not want to understand. I am done with you on this topic. You keep making stuff up. I can comment on the staff at the tower but why? Do you have a clue why we pilots are called the pilot in command? I have tried to inform you. It is wasting my time.

Pilots can only work with the information they have.

The problem is that we are understaffing ATC towers, and we've made it a shitty job since Reagan fired the PACTO workers. Then we scratch our heads and wonder why this sort of thing happens.

But the airlines will keep jamming flights into this airport.
And the government will keep making ATC a lousy job.

But let's blame some poor chick who signed up to join the military.

 

[PeterPilot]

And the tower was understaffed.
And there are too many damned planes flying into Reagan'
And the airliner made a last minute runway change.

All contributing factors.


Well, when you have an answer, let me know. (I kind of doubt it, it looks like the copter was illuminated.)



No, it's a statement of fact, Air Traffic Control towers are generally understaffed. This particular one had a guy go home early, so one guy was handling two stations.

The airliner was assigned 33 by ATC. It was not a pilot decision. That's how it works.

 

[Robert W]

The problem is that we are understaffing ATC towers, and we've made it a shitty job since Reagan fired the PACTO workers. Then we scratch our heads and wonder why this sort of thing happens.

You do not understand this at all. PATCO was told to go to work or lose their job. Only those refusing to work got fired. Reagan did not want to fire them, his hope is they would show up at work. It was their choice. PATCO did not have a right to walk off. I know the law used then.

 

[Robert W]

The airliner was assigned 33 by ATC. It was not a pilot decision. That's how it works.

He refuses to understand. Had the pilot wanted to land on runway 1, he could have told ATC he still requests it. But ATC could simply say no. I have tried to help this poster understand but his one goal is to exonerate the female pilot of the helicopter. But she was on a training mission with an instructor with her and she was on visual flight rules per her request. She put the nail in her own coffin. I pray JoeB131 never gets training to be a pilot since he refuses to listen to facts and keeps arguing.

 

[JoeB131]

The airliner was assigned 33 by ATC. It was not a pilot decision. That's how it works.

Seems to me that was a contributing factor.

You do not understand this at all. PATCO was told to go to work or lose their job. Only those refusing to work got fired. Reagan did not want to fire them, his hope is they would show up at work. It was their choice. PATCO did not have a right to walk off. I know the law used then.

I understand it perfectly. PACTO went on strike partially because their equipment was outdated. Reagan decided to play tough guy and fire them all, making air travel less safe.

He refuses to understand. Had the pilot wanted to land on runway 1, he could have told ATC he still requests it. But ATC could simply say no. I have tried to help this poster understand but his one goal is to exonerate the female pilot of the helicopter. But she was on a training mission with an instructor with her and she was on visual flight rules per her request. She put the nail in her own coffin. I pray @JoeB131 never gets training to be a pilot since he refuses to listen to facts and keeps arguing.

Nope, I actually have this silly idea of "waiting for the investigation to finish" and "actually considering all possibilities". This is a concept unknown to Mormon cultists, who are trained at an early age to accept the most absurd shit from their cult leaders.

So you new cult leaders says, "She must have crashed it because she had a vagina!" and you guy it.

 

[Robert W]

I understand it perfectly. PACTO went on strike partially because their equipment was outdated. Reagan decided to play tough guy and fire them all, making air travel less safe.

Did you see the equipment they used then? I saw it Joe. I mean literally. It seems you have made up your mind to blame the pilot of the airliner. Sure you say the ATC guys in the tower but they were not piloting either airplane. I was let into the ATC due to being a pilot. FAA allowed Pilots in their facilities back then. You made nasty remarks about women. I don't talk that way. Good luck blaming the ATC or the Airliner pilot. I am done again.

PATCO is the accurate name. Was the equipment up to date when Reagan fired them? Frankly it sure seemed up to date when I was there. Each Controller had a very large video display they watched. Each airplane being directed was shown including flight data. They explained to me how easy it was to track all controlled airplanes.
This Female simply was also being controlled until she did the fateful thing. She got off of them and went visual meaning only she was commanding her helicopter but the airliner was at all times on control.