Pilot uses video and explains helicopter crashed both aircraft

[JoeB131]

You have a chink in your story.

Oh, did you really think that was clever?

Tell me again how your cult isn't racist, that never gets old.

 

[Robert W]

Tell me again how your cult isn't racist, that never gets old.

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About 6% of the world's Latter-day Saints (LDS) are Black, and about 1–3% of LDS members in the United States are Black.

Explanation

• The LDS church doesn't provide racial or ethnic breakdowns of its membership.
  
  
• Black people have been members of the LDS church since it was founded in the 1830s.

 

[JoeB131]

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About 6% of the world's Latter-day Saints (LDS) are Black, and about 1–3% of LDS members in the United States are Black.

Explanation

• The LDS church doesn't provide racial or ethnic breakdowns of its membership.
  
  
• Black people have been members of the LDS church since it was founded in the 1830s.

Given that 13% of the population is black, that's not saying much.

I mean, sure you can always find a self-loathing black person like that lady who got elected to Congress once.

But the point is, your cult teaches dark skin is a curse from God (the Curse of Ham, the Curse of the Lamanites).

doesn't look cursed to me.

 

[Robert W]

But the point is, your cult teaches dark skin is a curse from God (the Curse of Ham, the Curse of the Lamanites).

You mean the Chinese? We welcome them.

 

[Robert W]

Given that 13% of the population is black, that's not saying much.

I mean, sure you can always find a self-loathing black person like that lady who got elected to Congress once.

But the point is, your cult teaches dark skin is a curse from God (the Curse of Ham, the Curse of the Lamanites).

View attachment 1080871doesn't look cursed to me.

Gramps,

I’ve been told several times that the dark skinned people are descendants of Adam’s son, Cain. Thus the ‘Mark of Cain’. Moreover, in the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites who repented of their sins, their skins became lighter. What is the church’s position on this? Given the societal’s view on race. Thank you.

Steve

Answer​

Steve,

The Church has no position on such theories. In previous generations, many Church members and even leaders believed the idea you bring up. Today the Church has made it clear that such ideas are not part of revealed LDS doctrine. The nature of the Biblical “mark of Cain” has not been revealed to the Church, nor the exact nature or meaning of how the righteous Lamanites’ “skin became white” as mentioned in 3 Nephi 2. Such knowledge is probably unimportant to our current needs.

For further clarification, you might wish to read the essay on “Race and the Priesthood” that the Church recently published on its web site:

Race and the Priesthood

In theology and practice, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints embraces the universal human family. Latter-day Saint scripture and teachings affirm that God loves all of His children and makes salvation available to all. God created the many diverse races and ethnicities and esteems them all equally. As the Book of Mormon puts it, “all are alike unto God.”1

The structure and organization of the Church encourage racial integration. Latter-day Saints attend Church services according to the geographical boundaries of their local ward, or congregation. By definition, this means that the racial, economic, and demographic composition of Latter-day Saint congregations generally mirrors that of the wider local community.2 The Church’s lay ministry also tends to facilitate integration: a black bishop may preside over a mostly white congregation; a Hispanic woman may be paired with an Asian woman to visit the homes of a racially diverse membership. Church members of different races and ethnicities regularly minister in one another’s homes and serve alongside one another as teachers, as youth leaders, and in myriad other assignments in their local congregations. Such practices make The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a thoroughly integrated faith.

Despite this modern reality, for much of its history—from the mid-1800s until 1978—the Church did not ordain men of black African descent to its priesthood or allow black men or women to participate in temple endowment or sealing ordinances.

The Church was established in 1830, during an era of great racial division in the United States. At the time, many people of African descent lived in slavery, and racial distinctions and prejudice were not just common but customary among white Americans. Those realities, though unfamiliar and disturbing today, influenced all aspects of people’s lives, including their religion. Many Christian churches of that era, for instance, were segregated along racial lines. From the beginnings of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity could be baptized and received as members. Toward the end of his life, Church founder Joseph Smith openly opposed slavery. There has never been a Churchwide policy of segregated congregations.3

During the first two decades of the Church’s existence, a few black men were ordained to the priesthood. One of these men, Elijah Abel, also participated in temple ceremonies in Kirtland, Ohio, and was later baptized as proxy for deceased relatives in Nauvoo, Illinois. There is no reliable evidence that any black men were denied the priesthood during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. In a private Church council three years after Joseph Smith’s death, Brigham Young praised Q. Walker Lewis, a black man who had been ordained to the priesthood, saying, “We have one of the best Elders, an African.”4

In 1852, President Brigham Young publicly announced that men of black African descent could no longer be ordained to the priesthood, though thereafter blacks continued to join the Church through baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Following the death of Brigham Young, subsequent Church presidents restricted blacks from receiving the temple endowment or being married in the temple. Over time, Church leaders and members advanced many theories to explain the priesthood and temple restrictions. None of these explanations is accepted today as the official doctrine of the Church.

 

[JoeB131]

Gramps,

I’ve been told several times that the dark skinned people are descendants of Adam’s son, Cain. Thus the ‘Mark of Cain’. Moreover, in the Book of Mormon, the Lamanites who repented of their sins, their skins became lighter. What is the church’s position on this? Given the societal’s view on race. Thank you.

Steve
Answer


Steve,

The Church has no position on such theories. In previous generations, many Church members and even leaders believed the idea you bring up. Today the Church has made it clear that such ideas are not part of revealed LDS doctrine. The nature of the Biblical “mark of Cain” has not been revealed to the Church, nor the exact nature or meaning of how the righteous Lamanites’ “skin became white” as mentioned in 3 Nephi 2. Such knowledge is probably unimportant to our current needs.

Why do you think these walls of text somehow prove your point?

So essentially, you have another case of "God didn't change his mind, we changed ours" that all religions, not just yours, are guilty of.

Religions are of course, period pieces. Catholicism is a product of the Dark Ages, while Protestantism is a product of the Reneisance and Reformation. Mormonism is a product of the Second Great Awakening, where racist ideas were prevalent.

Yes, the racism of Smith and Young ARE embarrassing to modern Mormons (as they should be) but they are important in that they show how it was at the root of your beliefs.

But if you are going to claim that the Mormon Prophet is personally talking to God, the God should have told Smith and Young that there racism was wrong and they need to knock that shit off.

 

[PeterPilot]

Pilots can only rely on the information they are given.

If the ATC told them the weren't going to collide, or didn't warn them until it was too late, um, then, yeah, it's on the ATC.

But I know Cheeto Hitler told you it was because of DEI, so you have to go with that. Doesn't she know her place is in the kitchen, making babies to get her man into the Celestial Heaven?

The regulations and safe operating procedures require the pilot to see and be seen. The airline pilot saw the helo at the last second and tried to avoid a collision, but was low on energy, no can do. The helo crew failed to follow instructions, and likely because they were wearing NVG, could not or did not see the airplane he had told the tower he had visually.

 

[JoeB131]

The regulations and safe operating procedures require the pilot to see and be seen. The airline pilot saw the helo at the last second and tried to avoid a collision, but was low on energy, no can do. The helo crew failed to follow instructions, and likely because they were wearing NVG, could not or did not see the airplane he had told the tower he had visually.

Again, I'm hearing LOTS of speculation and very few facts.

 

[Robert W]

Again, I'm hearing LOTS of speculation and very few facts.

Speculation on your end, facts by we two pilots.

 

[Robert W]

Again, I'm hearing LOTS of speculation and very few facts.

Tell us what you don't understand!!

Visual Flight Rules (VFR) apply when a pilot can see the ground and avoid obstacles during clear weather conditions. VFR is used for most general aviation flying and flight training.

When does VFR apply?

• When the weather is clear enough to see where the aircraft is going
• When the pilot can visually reference the ground
• When the pilot can visually avoid obstructions and other aircraft

What are the weather conditions for VFR?

• No fog or heavy rain
• • Visibility of at least three statute miles during the day and five miles at night
  • Altitude of at least 1,000 feet above the surface during daytime flights and 2,000 feet above ground level at night

What are the limitations of VFR?

• • VFR cannot be used in low visibility conditions, such as fog or heavy rain

What are the benefits of VFR training? Develops situational awareness, Enhances safety, and Provides flexibility in flight.

What are the requirements for VFR flight?

• • A private pilot's license
  • The ability to see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles

 

[Robert W]

Again, I'm hearing LOTS of speculation and very few facts.

U.S. News

Helicopter crew in collision with plane may not have heard key instruction from tower, NTSB says​

By GARY FIELDS, TIM SULLIVAN and JOSH FUNK
Updated 6:37 PM MST, February 14, 2025
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The crew of the Army helicopter that collided in midair with an American Airlines jet near Washington, D.C.’s Ronald Reagan National Airport may have had inaccurate altitude readings in the moments before the crash, and also may not have heard key instructions from air traffic controllers to move behind the plane, investigators said Friday.

National Transportation Safety Board Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy told reporters that the recording from the Black Hawk helicopter cockpit suggested an incomplete radio transmission may have left the crew without understanding how it should shift position just before the Jan. 29 crash, in which all 67 aboard the two aircraft were killed,

 

[JoeB131]

Speculation on your end, facts by we two pilots.

Since neither one of you were on the aircraft in question, you are speculating.

Helicopter crew in collision with plane may not have heard key instruction from tower, NTSB says

MAY not have heard.

Speculation.

 

[Mr. P]

Tell us what you don't understand!!

Visual Flight Rules (VFR) apply when a pilot can see the ground and avoid obstacles during clear weather conditions. VFR is used for most general aviation flying and flight training.

When does VFR apply?

• When the weather is clear enough to see where the aircraft is going
• When the pilot can visually reference the ground
• When the pilot can visually avoid obstructions and other aircraft

What are the weather conditions for VFR?

• No fog or heavy rain
• • Visibility of at least three statute miles during the day and five miles at night
  • Altitude of at least 1,000 feet above the surface during daytime flights and 2,000 feet above ground level at night

What are the limitations of VFR?

• • VFR cannot be used in low visibility conditions, such as fog or heavy rain

What are the benefits of VFR training? Develops situational awareness, Enhances safety, and Provides flexibility in flight.

What are the requirements for VFR flight?

• • A private pilot's license
  • The ability to see and avoid other aircraft and obstacles

Where the hell did you get this dribble?
It does nothing but Conflate Vmc. and VFR.

God help Anyone looking to you for advice Or guidance in aviation.

Just sayin

 

[Robert W]

Where the hell did you get this dribble?
It does nothing but Conflate Vmc. and VFR.

God help Anyone looking to you for advice Or guidance in aviation.

Just sayin

It came from an FAA location. God help you if you disagree.

 

[Mr. P]

It came from an FAA location. God help you if you disagree.

Reference, please? I Somehow doubt you have one as the FAA would not write anything so convoluted with incorrect information and grammatically such a mess as what you posted.

 

[Robert W]

Reference, please? I Somehow doubt you have one as the FAA would not write anything so convoluted with incorrect information and grammatically such a mess as what you posted.

Lets try this. YOU post VFR flight rules and show errors in what I said. First read again what I posted.

 

[Robert W]

Where the hell did you get this dribble?
It does nothing but Conflate Vmc. and VFR.

God help Anyone looking to you for advice Or guidance in aviation.

Just sayin

Are you alleging you are a pilot?

 

[Mr. P]

Are you alleging you are a pilot?

Lets try this. YOU post VFR flight rules and show errors in what I said. First read again what I posted.

Are you alleging you are a pilot?

You claimed to be a pilot and stated that your information came from an FAA location. However, you have not provided an FAA reference. Instead, you are attempting to redirect the conversation. Wikipedia, from which your post was sloppily cut and pasted, is not an FAA location. That dog won’t hunt, Robert! I must consider you may be a poser and nothing more.

 

[Robert W]

You claimed to be a pilot and stated that your information came from an FAA location. However, you have not provided an FAA reference. Instead, you are attempting to redirect the conversation. Wikipedia, from which your post was sloppily cut and pasted, is not an FAA location. That dog won’t hunt, Robert! I must consider you may be a poser and nothing more.

So you are not a pilot. I had clue 1 of that when you criticized my comments. I don't care what you think about me. I am a pilot and fly VFR legally. And you don't understand that term.

 

[Mr. P]

So you are not a pilot. I had clue 1 of that when you criticized my comments. I don't care what you think about me. I am a pilot and fly VFR legally. And you don't understand that term.

What level of license do you hold Robert?? How many hours do you have under your belt?? I think you're just a wannabe!