Pilot uses video and explains helicopter crashed both aircraft

[Robert W]

What level of license do you hold Robert?? How many hours do you have under your belt?? I think you're just a wannabe!

I can tell you are not a pilot. I have about 140 hours as a pilot. The FAA carries me in their records as a private pilot. What about you? Why do you get involved with pilots discussions?

 

[Mr. P]

I can tell you are not a pilot. I have about 140 hours as a pilot. The FAA carries me in their records as a private pilot. What about you? Why do you get involved with pilots discussions?

 

[Mr. P]

Curious, What makes you think I'm not a pilot?

 

[Robert W]

Curious, What makes you think I'm not a pilot?

Because your only gripe was my post about VFR and you have not posted your version of VFR.

It stands for Visual Flight Rules and was used at the time of the Helicopter crash by that pilot. She asked for permission. She will be found to blame for her collision with the passenger plane. It was on the correct path. She had been told to fly behind it, not at it.

 

[Mr. P]

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There is no "individual version" of VFR—only the FAA’s definition. I initially refrained from commenting, but I couldn't hold back any longer when I saw some inaccuracies regarding VFR.


For example, it was previously stated that the helicopter had requested visual separation and was therefore released from ATC control. This is incorrect. While in class Delta airspace, an aircraft remains under the control of the tower (ATC) until it exits. When ATC issues "maintain visual separation" and the pilot accepts, the responsibility for aircraft separation shifts to the pilot, relieving ATC of that duty. However, this does not grant the pilot unrestricted freedom to operate as they wish.


Additionally, if the pilot requests visual separation when issued traffic, this does not mean ATC relinquishes all oversight—ATC still retains authority over the aircraft within controlled airspace.

 

[Robert W]

For example, it was previously stated that the helicopter had requested visual separation and was therefore released from ATC control. This is incorrect. While in class Delta airspace, an aircraft remains under the control of the tower (ATC) until it exits. When ATC issues "maintain visual separation" and the pilot accepts, the responsibility for aircraft separation shifts to the pilot, relieving ATC of that duty. However, this does not grant the pilot unrestricted freedom to operate as they wish.


Additionally, if the pilot requests visual separation when issued traffic, this does not mean ATC relinquishes all oversight—ATC still retains authority over the aircraft within controlled airspace.

To non pilots that makes sense. But in real terms, she, the pilot of the helicpter was at all times Pilot in command. Do you understand that meaning? Still you do not claim to be a pilot. If you did in other posts, pardon me.

I have flown many times in such areas. But the FAA has charts for pilots detailing where they can be at what altitude. She entered as IFR which was totally under the control of the ATC. The ATC agreed when she asked for that clearance. Helicopter pilots familiar with this say she violated the rules by being too high.

 

[Mr. P]

To non pilots that makes sense. But in real terms, she, the pilot of the helicpter was at all times Pilot in command. Do you understand that meaning? Still you do not claim to be a pilot. If you did in other posts, pardon me.

I have flown many times in such areas. But the FAA has charts for pilots detailing where they can be at what altitude. She entered as IFR which was totally under the control of the ATC. The ATC agreed when she asked for that clearance. Helicopter pilots familiar with this say she violated the rules by being too high.

Perhaps you should read post numbers 69 on this thread. Then, if you'd like, we can go into more detail.

 

[Robert W]

Additionally, if the pilot requests visual separation when issued traffic, this does not mean ATC relinquishes all oversight—ATC still retains authority over the aircraft within controlled airspace.

I am stabbing now at your reply just to ferret out what you claim. Where controlled airports are, particularly in heavy traffic areas, the FAA publishes charts we have to follow. I have flown into SF airport space, Oakland CA Airport space as well as others. I flew VFR with no asking for permission from ATC by staying in the areas the chart showed me I could safely be in. I have been at Reagan Airport as a passenger on a Jet and those pilots stay in assigned airspaces. She got out of the area she belonged in.

Had she simply stayed where she belonged, no accident would have happened.

 

[Robert W]

One lesson I learned early in my career is that when an accident occurs, there is rarely a simple explanation. It is easy to speculate, but aviation demands patience and facts before conclusions. At this point, I see errors on both sides—ATC and the UH-60 crew—but final judgment must rest on a thorough investigation. In aviation, accountability is key, but so is fairness. The lessons learned from any incident must serve to improve safety and understanding, ensuring that future pilots and controllers are better prepared for the challenges they will face.

One more thing—take the news regarding this accident with a grain of salt. When they have time to fill, they just make stuff up. It drives me nuts !

Thanks for telling me it was post 69. Actually we are in agreement. You have flown many more hours than I have but I took my flight lessons and skills as a private pilot seriously. Since it was all on my own dime, it is why I am not still flying airplanes.
I have said I also see errors by the UH 60 pilot and the instructor on it.

The ATC declared they told her to fly behind the Passenger Jet and that the Helicopter did not comply. What can the ATC be blamed for?

I will agree you have much more time as a pilot than I have. I did not tell you this before but I worked with an Officer who flew Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. And he died in that same River years ago. When he was killed he was then a Major. I served at an airfield he served at in Germany and we were friends at the time.

I will try later to produce his accident shown on the internet.

Helicopter May Have Deviated From Approved Path Before ...​

The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com › plane-crash-washington-dc




Jan 29, 2025 — An Army helicopter may have deviated from its approved flight path before its deadly collision with an American Airlines jet over the Potomac River.

 

[Robert W]

Perhaps you should read post numbers 69 on this thread. Then, if you'd like, we can go into more detail.

I served in the Army with a number of pilots and enjoyed that a lot. They were to me very very fine officers except the captain I worked for who was the Airfield commander. He was a drunk is why I say this.

 

[PeterPilot]

After 48 years in aviation, including 45 as a professional pilot and service as a warrant officer aviator, I have learned that experience breeds both confidence and humility. Having spent 15 years as a contract instructor at the United States Army Aviation School, I have trained and flown alongside some of the best, reinforcing the critical importance of discipline, preparation, and sound judgment.

As a civilian pilot,I have flown in and out of Washington National/Reagan Airport many times, and it is a challenge—especially at night. The combination of complex airspace, high traffic volume, and specific approach procedures demands precision and vigilance from both pilots and air traffic controllers. Situational awareness and decision-making under pressure are skills honed over years, but even the most seasoned pilots know that every flight is a learning experience.

One lesson I learned early in my career is that when an accident occurs, there is rarely a simple explanation. It is easy to speculate, but aviation demands patience and facts before conclusions. At this point, I see errors on both sides—ATC and the UH-60 crew—but final judgment must rest on a thorough investigation. In aviation, accountability is key, but so is fairness. The lessons learned from any incident must serve to improve safety and understanding, ensuring that future pilots and controllers are better prepared for the challenges they will face.

One more thing—take the news regarding this accident with a grain of salt. When they have time to fill, they just make stuff up. It drives me nuts !

I missed your post earlier. What are your thoughts regarding the likely use of NVG low level at night over highly populated areas like DC? Some CWO types have commented. I've worn some NVGs many years ago for grins and giggles, but never flew with them. Some theorize the ambient lights on the ground below 200 AGL might "white out" the goggles and cause the wearer to tend to fly higher.

 

[Robert W]

I missed your post earlier. What are your thoughts regarding the likely use of NVG low level at night over highly populated areas like DC? Some CWO types have commented. I've worn some NVGs many years ago for grins and giggles, but never flew with them. Some theorize the ambient lights on the ground below 200 AGL might "white out" the goggles and cause the wearer to tend to fly higher.

I have no night goggle experience to be able to answer this. I have only been on passenger jets there at Reagan. I worked with Army pilots in Germany many years ago and do not recall any of them with night vision goggles.

 

[PeterPilot]

I have no night goggle experience to be able to answer this. I have only been on passenger jets there at Reagan. I worked with Army pilots in Germany many years ago and do not recall any of them with night vision goggles.

In Vietnam NVG were primitive by today's standards, and that's all I have to judge by. If the helicopter had been below 200 the accident likely would not have happened.

 

[hadit]

View attachment 1073095
Sieg Heil!!!

A Nazi salute is to the front, not the side. Come on, you're supposed to be the Nazi expert here.

 

[Robert W]

In Vietnam NVG were primitive by today's standards, and that's all I have to judge by. If the helicopter had been below 200 the accident likely would not have happened.

It is safe to say that with it being that low, no accident could have happened. My Army time was just prior to the huge build up in Vietnam. We had special forces training the South at that time under Kennedy. Were I flying into Reagan, my attitude would be to expect there to be jets landing where they belonged as this passenger jet was. I narrowed it down, and unhappily so, to the Chopper pilot being blamed when this is over. For instance, if the night vision goggles caused a problem thanks to the lighted areas, the pilot should have not wore them.

 

[Mr. P]

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I can’t say from experience, as NVGs weren’t available when I was on active duty. However, over the years, I’ve heard from many who have used them—and still do—that they come with some interesting quirks. One common issue is the "whiteout" effect. Additionally, I’ve been told that the field of view through NVGs is extremely limited—like looking through two toilet paper tubes. If that’s the case, there’s no way I’d ever consider flying by DCA while wearing them.