Pilgrim's HR 3200 Must Read Pages

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

HR 3200 you can quick jump to the pages in this pdf pretty easily.

Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option! So much for choice

Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure (irs bully tactic)

Page 29: Sounds like rationing is being discussed

Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree health plans (example: SEIU, UAW)

Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that.)

Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other word ACORN or similar organizations will have leverage

Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures

Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates.. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more leverage for ACORN.

Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more leverage for ACORN.

Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government has the right to intervene in your marriage.

This Bill really sucks

 

[AllieBaba]

Stop fearmongering by informing us of what's actually in the bill! How DARE you repeat it! Only your betters, i.e., lib scumbags in office approved by the pres, are supposed to know that stuff!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Stop fearmongering by informing us of what's actually in the bill! How DARE you repeat it! Only your betters, i.e., lib scumbags in office approved by the pres, are supposed to know that stuff!

I know right...how dare I stop listening to the left and right wing talking points and actually READ the bill myself then pass on what I read

I have a big write up interpreting using sections instead of pages too, its hard to do you have to go back to previous sections to see what they are referring to in latter sections. You also have to have access to older laws and studies that the 3200 bill uses. They refer back to a 2008 study on preventative medicine for example....and they do this to say what type of preventative services will be covered under the govt plan and what types individuals will still have to pay for themselves.

This bill really sucks when you read and comprehend it.

 

[Intense]

George Orwell could have benefited from this in his writings. The Oligarchy has spoken. Why do we question?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Stop fearmongering by informing us of what's actually in the bill! How DARE you repeat it! Only your betters, i.e., lib scumbags in office approved by the pres, are supposed to know that stuff!

I know right...how dare I stop listening to the left and right wing talking points and actually READ the bill myself then pass on what I read

I have a big write up interpreting using sections instead of pages too, its hard to do you have to go back to previous sections to see what they are referring to in latter sections. You also have to have access to older laws and studies that the 3200 bill uses. They refer back to a 2008 study on preventative medicine for example....and they do this to say what type of preventative services will be covered under the govt plan and what types individuals will still have to pay for themselves.

This bill really sucks when you read and comprehend it.

Is it possible that we have an administration that wants judicial review for terrorist prisoners in Gitmo, but not for American citizens?


WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?

This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:

‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .

There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.

The Health Care Bill

 

[Intense]

Not for Union or Government employees. What if we reversed the part about Us supplementing Their Plans, and make them subsidize our plans? Nah. I wouldn't do that to anybody. It's like armed robbery.

 

[twogreen2c]

There is so much about this bill that gets me pissed. But having the taxpayers fund the union retirees is just another connect the dots on how the Community Organizer in the White House operates. And as we watched the conflict get louder, Obama called out his army and media goons. Their method is to intimidate and silence those against this health care reform bill. Katy Abram, the housewife that spoke at the Arlen Spector, Lebanon, PA town hall meeting, is getting a taste of how nasty these people can be.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

keep reading through the bill people.

There are plenty of things that should give both democrats and republicans reason to want to pause and have this bill gone over with a fine tooth comb.

 

[NO!bama08]

I'm enjoying all this town hall noise. It's about time real Americans stood up and made some noise. Where were all you people during the election? You knew it was coming. We could have elected a liberal Republican instead of a pure socialist. LOL. If real hardworking, taxpaying Americans can stand up and defeat this socialistic move by this goofball president, we might just make it. Keep the momentum going for another 16 months, then take his power away by voting out all these idiots who even thought about voting for this crap, and we'll be ok. I'm feeling better every day.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

i'm thinking of making a more in depth version of this thread....connecting the various parts of the bill to each other for people....is anyone interested in that or would i be wasting my time?

 

[Intense]

I had problems with the Link. Maybe heavy usage too. Here is another Link to the Bill. http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

 

[Sunni Man]

I don't get it ??

Obama was sent here to save us.

Yet the American people are fighting against him and his agenda

 

[Intense]

Yeah Pilgrim, I've got a good one for you, if you can loan me an aspirin. You are very good at this, so I lay this treasure before you, untouched. God Help Us.
Page 422

422
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(2) ESTABLISHMENT OF PROCEDURES IN
2 ORDER TO IMPLEMENT COVERAGE.—The Secretary
3 shall establish procedures for—
4 ‘‘(A) identifying individuals that are enti5
tled to coverage of immunosuppressive drugs by
6 reason of section 226A(b)(2); and
7 ‘‘(B) distinguishing such individuals from
8 individuals that are enrolled under this part for
9 the complete package of benefits under this
10 part.’’.
11 (C) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT TO CORRECT
12 DUPLICATE SUBSECTION DESIGNATION.—Sub13
section (d) of section 226A of such Act (42
14 U.S.C. 426–1), as added by section
15 201(a)(3)(D)(ii) of the Social Security Inde16
pendence and Program Improvements Act of
17 1994 (Public Law 103–296; 108 Stat. 1497), is
18 redesignated as subsection (d).
19 (2) EXTENSION OF SECONDARY PAYER RE20
QUIREMENTS FOR ESRD BENEFICIARIES.—Section
21 1862(b)(1)(C) of such Act (42 U.S.C.
22 1395y(b)(1)(C)) is amended by adding at the end
23 the following new sentence: ‘‘With regard to im24
munosuppressive drugs furnished on or after the
25 date of the enactment of the America’s Affordable
VerDate Nov

 

[veritas]

Your OP is full of errors and outright.........lies.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Your OP is full of errors and outright.........lies.

Prove it....use the language of HR 3200 to prove it and i'll take whatever you can legitimately disprove off the list

 

[Vanquish]

Love this thread...specific points to talk about and a call for no insults. You're my new hero even if we disagree.

One problem though, you might not want to use page numbers since congressional bills dont have page numbers. It's not a deal-breaker though - just link us to what source for the bill you're using.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see your link. *tips cap*

As far as substantial comments, the electronic transfer thing is provider-only if I read it right. I'll come back with some actual language to back that up though.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Yeah i need a moderator to come in and delete the part i found most troublilng, as after discussion i found out that I was wrong on the part i put in big red letters

DOH!!!!

 

[Vanquish]

Ok I'm back.

The language is unclear at best. Let me walk us through 1173A - I'm going to be as objective and honest as I possibly can, while looking at things in the light most favorable to BOTH sides.

The goals section says (1173A 2D) "Determine an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service."

CONSERVATIVE SLANT: "This means they keep track of how much I'm spending on my medical services!!"

DEMOCRATIC SLANT: "Just like any other business selling a service, they're just keeping an account balance."

ME personally: There are safeguards for keeping information private and medicare already keeps the same info on participants anyway. NO BIG WOOP.

(1173A 2D) "Including the use of a machine-readable electronic card"

CONSERVATIVE SLANT: "Big brother on a credit card! It'll cost money to implement when we're already overbudget"

DEMOCRATIC SLANT: "This makes going from doctor to doctor easier!"

ME personally: I don't see the problem with making your information easily transferrable via a card. Again, such information can be protected, and it's already tracked. Yes, there are other options that dont centralize the information and wouldnt add to the cost. The protection of the information might cost the same as a fraud-protection call center - and that's more cost.

I, personally, see the easier move of the information from doctor to doctor as a plus. If you've ever waited on doctor's offices to trade files...it's painfully slow at least half the time in my experience. Actual mileage may vary.


(1173A 2H) "Harmonize all elements."

CONSERVATIVE SLANT: "Harmonize? What the hell does that mean? This is an attempt to change things later!"

LIBERAL SLANT: "Don't you want everything to work together?"

ME personally: I agree with the conservative slant. Who knows what the fuck this means and could mean sweeping changes that we didn't ask for. Looks like a backdoor and I've helped work up a few backdoors myself.


(1173A 4A) "can expand..."

Same as above. Sure there might be some reasonable expansions, but I'm not handing anyone a loaded gun like that. Except Clint Eastwood. He killed Chuck Norris.


(1173A 4D) "Transparent and timely."

CONSERVATIVE SLANT: "We've heard these words before...politicians lied."

LIBERAL SLANT: "This is better than nothing. At least they're promising to be open and honest and make things faster!"

ME personally: The proof is in the execution - If we, as citizens, can use this language to hold their feet to the fire, it's useful language. If not, it's worthless.


(1173A 4E) "Require the use of a standard electronic transaction with which health care providers may quickly and efficiently enroll with a health plan to conduct the other electronic transactions provided for in this part."

CONSERVATIVE SLANT: "Other electronic transactions = debit our bank accounts!!!"

LIBERAL SLANT: "This is only for providers. See nothing said about consumers!"

ME personally: This could just be for enrolling or it could be to complete all other transactions...but only the ones in this part. And while it says "determine financial responsibility" it doesn't say anything about a consumer paying. I'd love to see where it says that.

There's another section 163 that has to do with this topic too...I'm going to read that. If I dont have a client coming in at 10am

 

[Vanquish]

Ok so I do have a client at 10:30 but here's 163 as I read it:

1. It replaces part of the existing SocSec Act with section 1173A, sought in this (HR3200) bill
2. It also adds section 1171, which is a bunch of non-damaging definitions. These definitions are about streamlining (hastening, quickening) electronic transactions (unclear, but sounds like between providers and the govt)
3. Gives 1 year to finish establishing standards

I think you said you knew the red part was wrong, but yeah this issue isn't a red flag issue...but I'd still say its yellow-green. Possibility but not probablity for danger.

 

[Vanquish]

Wow...so when someone actually stops to read something and think about it with some parsing of text and reasoned debate...the thread dies. NICE!!!!

Thanks for letting me decide the healthcare issue.