Petrodollars, foreign policy and the rhetoric of hate

[bendog]

the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:
Another example of how LWNJs love to take it up the ass

Is there a rebuttal somewhere hidden in this response? Does TNH have insider knowledge as to how this will play out? Or, as in my judgment, TNH is simply too dumb to consider the consequences on every issues upon which he opines, and simply writes what he has been told to believe by the right wing propaganda machine? And using "LWNJs" without definition in a vulgar post is solid evidence of his immaturity and lack of education.

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

ok so why are you so worried about SA

I'm worried that the hate and fear rhetoric of Trump and others will further erode our relationship to nations around the world. I suggest you read the link in the OP, maybe then you can comment with some credibility on this issue and others.

I did read your link. It was a good one. There's nothing new, to me, there. The one thing, probably the only thing, I agree with Trump on, or at least the only thing he's not flip flopped on, is that free trade has not always worked to our interests. Now his "solutions" are not spelled out, and he's horribly simplistic. But there's no doubt we paid for the Saudis defense against Iran, and instead of billing them for it, we sold them our debt. THAT was not Bill Simon or Nixon's fault, but actually Reagan's, but that's another thing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

As I recall the current president vowed to "wean America off oil". What did he mean by that? Everyone knows the freaking world runs on oil so Barry must have intended to reduce the U.S. to a 3rd world country depending on rich oil producing countries like Saudi Arabia. You can't have it both ways. Barry Hussein's foreign policy is a joke. Under his leadership or lack of it the entire middle east has become unstable. Barry's biography was titled "dreams of my father" but his father was an African nationalist who hated America. Barry doesn't even have the decency to refrain from talking a shot at republicans while he is in freaking Japan.

I don't give Obama credit, but it is a fact that our oil imports are down dramatically.
http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec3_2.pdf

And, I don't think the Saudis wish us well, and I think we'd be well advised to use the decline in imports to lessen their power that can be used against us.

I mostly agree; I do however give President Obama for his efforts to reduce the use of oil and support green and renewal forms of energy. In CA the use of solar to produce electricity has created jobs and reduced the use of fossil fuels. Hybrids and electric vehicles are a common site in the Bay Area, and charging stations are beginning to appear at malls and parking garages; for an overview of what is happening in CA, see:

California Energy Commission

So what is your state doing, and what is you member of Congress doing? If s/he is spending time and our tax dollars to build pipelines to move oil to the world market, I hope you fire 'em next November.

 

[bendog]

As I recall the current president vowed to "wean America off oil". What did he mean by that? Everyone knows the freaking world runs on oil so Barry must have intended to reduce the U.S. to a 3rd world country depending on rich oil producing countries like Saudi Arabia. You can't have it both ways. Barry Hussein's foreign policy is a joke. Under his leadership or lack of it the entire middle east has become unstable. Barry's biography was titled "dreams of my father" but his father was an African nationalist who hated America. Barry doesn't even have the decency to refrain from talking a shot at republicans while he is in freaking Japan.

I don't give Obama credit, but it is a fact that our oil imports are down dramatically.
http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec3_2.pdf

And, I don't think the Saudis wish us well, and I think we'd be well advised to use the decline in imports to lessen their power that can be used against us.

I mostly agree; I do however give President Obama for his efforts to reduce the use of oil and support green and renewal forms of energy. In CA the use of solar to produce electricity has created jobs and reduced the use of fossil fuels. Hybrids and electric vehicles are a common site in the Bay Area, and charging stations are beginning to appear at malls and parking garages; for an overview of what is happening in CA, see:

California Energy Commission

So what is your state doing, and what is you member of Congress doing? If s/he is spending time and our tax dollars to build pipelines to move oil to the world market, I hope you fire 'em next November.

Seriously, my state is much more interested in gerrymandering districts, promoting gun ownership and carry and keeping the queers in their place - the closet.

 

[miketx]

What obama has done is to make the US dependent of Saudi oil, and drive many of our oil field companies into bankruptcy. Then, not being able to produce oil at a profit, defaulted on millions in banks loans. Thank you obama. America fucked again.

 

[The Rabbi]

How any rational person would consider voting for Cankles, is being rational, is most irrational.

There are dozens of threads assassinating the character of Sect. Clinton. I suggest you read Moby Dick and consider how obsession sans reasoned thought worked for Capt. Ahab, his crew and his ship.

Some points rational people consider:

• Experience matters
• Human's learn from their mistakes
• The definition of Demagoguery
• The definition of a Charlatan
• My post 143 in What''s the Best War Movie

Clinton is a liar, corrupt, and only out for herself. How anyone could consider that acceptable in a president is beyond me.

 

[bendog]

What obama has done is to make the US dependent of Saudi oil, and drive many of our oil field companies into bankruptcy. Then, not being able to produce oil at a profit, defaulted on millions in banks loans. Thank you obama. America fucked again.

We are less dependent on ME oil that we were before Obama. Not that he's the reason for it, but let's get facts right. I posted the link above.

The Saudis do have our debt, and they can use it as a weapon. I'd say that's mostly on the gop, because they did reverse our course on energy independence, but neither Clinton nor Obama really made that a priority ... but most Americans want really zippy cars for everyone in their family, and they want cheap electricity.

 

[miketx]

They also want jobs, and since obama has put many local oilfields into bankruptcy, they don't have any. Not to mention the banks that are hurt because of all the defaulted loans. Yeah libtard, just sweep all that under the table.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Trump supporters (Trumpsters) need to open their mind and consider the consequences to our economy if they do not consider the damage done, and what will be a much greater harm, as a result if Trump is elected POTUS.

Read and consider how the attack on Islam in his Stump speech, and the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:

The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s 41-Year U.S. Debt Secret

It's time to put emotional decisions aside, and rationally consider the consequences of your vote in November. Not only as to who is to represent you in The Congress, but who will stand at the bully pulpit and speak to the world.

All you need is love right. Wrong the Islamic extremist are going to hate us no matter what. I would rather get our oil from allies and our on lands than depend on OPEC that's smart National security. Drilling for our own oil will help our economy.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

What obama has done is to make the US dependent of Saudi oil, and drive many of our oil field companies into bankruptcy. Then, not being able to produce oil at a profit, defaulted on millions in banks loans. Thank you obama. America fucked again.

We are less dependent on ME oil that we were before Obama. Not that he's the reason for it, but let's get facts right. I posted the link above.

The Saudis do have our debt, and they can use it as a weapon. I'd say that's mostly on the gop, because they did reverse our course on energy independence, but neither Clinton nor Obama really made that a priority ... but most Americans want really zippy cars for everyone in their family, and they want cheap electricity.

The largest holder of US debt is the American tax payer.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Is there a rebuttal somewhere hidden in this response? Does TNH have insider knowledge as to how this will play out? Or, as in my judgment, TNH is simply too dumb to consider the consequences on every issues upon which he opines, and simply writes what he has been told to believe by the right wing propaganda machine? And using "LWNJs" without definition in a vulgar post is solid evidence of his immaturity and lack of education.

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

ok so why are you so worried about SA

I'm worried that the hate and fear rhetoric of Trump and others will further erode our relationship to nations around the world. I suggest you read the link in the OP, maybe then you can comment with some credibility on this issue and others.

so you think we have a good relationship with SA? Please, tell me more!

FU and your straw man. We know G.W. Bush and Family has a good relationship with the Saudi Royalty, but to suggest I support an ultra conservative nation which suppresses the rights of women and foreign workers is both ridiculous and even for you a stupid comment, but not unexpected.

 

[bripat9643]

the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:
Another example of how LWNJs love to take it up the ass

Is there a rebuttal somewhere hidden in this response? Does TNH have insider knowledge as to how this will play out? Or, as in my judgment, TNH is simply too dumb to consider the consequences on every issues upon which he opines, and simply writes what he has been told to believe by the right wing propaganda machine? And using "LWNJs" without definition in a vulgar post is solid evidence of his immaturity and lack of education.

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

You're an imbecile. The idea that there's something wrong with expecting people in our country to share a common language and a common set of values, like a belief in freedom, is the lowest form of idiocy.

 

[TNHarley]

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

ok so why are you so worried about SA

I'm worried that the hate and fear rhetoric of Trump and others will further erode our relationship to nations around the world. I suggest you read the link in the OP, maybe then you can comment with some credibility on this issue and others.

so you think we have a good relationship with SA? Please, tell me more!

FU and your straw man. We know G.W. Bush and Family has a good relationship with the Saudi Royalty, but to suggest I support an ultra conservative nation which suppresses the rights of women and foreign workers is both ridiculous and even for you a stupid comment, but not unexpected.

you said" erode our relationship" which would imply you think we have a good one. Either that or you are happy with fucked up relationships..
So, why are you so worried about our relationship with SA?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Trump supporters (Trumpsters) need to open their mind and consider the consequences to our economy if they do not consider the damage done, and what will be a much greater harm, as a result if Trump is elected POTUS.

Read and consider how the attack on Islam in his Stump speech, and the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:

The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s 41-Year U.S. Debt Secret

It's time to put emotional decisions aside, and rationally consider the consequences of your vote in November. Not only as to who is to represent you in The Congress, but who will stand at the bully pulpit and speak to the world.

All you need is love right. Wrong the Islamic extremist are going to hate us no matter what. I would rather get our oil from allies and our on lands than depend on OPEC that's smart National security. Drilling for our own oil will help our economy.

Wow, you clowns on the right have no ability to read with comprehension. Islamic extremists are criminals, the policy of declaring war on a noun is stupid and alienated a billion Muslims. Creating more enemies by calling them names, lodging a 'crusade' and occupying Iraq was incredibly stupid. The stupidity was framed by greed, the greed associated with oil. That those on the right seem to believe some other reason(s) created the antipathy for the
West (esp. GB & the US) by the ME nations is evidence of the total ignorance of history by too many on the right.

 

[Wry Catcher]

the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:
Another example of how LWNJs love to take it up the ass

Is there a rebuttal somewhere hidden in this response? Does TNH have insider knowledge as to how this will play out? Or, as in my judgment, TNH is simply too dumb to consider the consequences on every issues upon which he opines, and simply writes what he has been told to believe by the right wing propaganda machine? And using "LWNJs" without definition in a vulgar post is solid evidence of his immaturity and lack of education.

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

You're an imbecile. The idea that there's something wrong with expecting people in our country to share a common language and a common set of values, like a belief in freedom, is the lowest form of idiocy.

Damn, you are dumb. Which side of the aisle advocates English Only? You Fng moron.

 

[bripat9643]

the actions of The Congress to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the deaths of American Citizens in the 911 attacks, will fundamentally change foreign affairs and the economic future of our nation and its citizens, here:
Another example of how LWNJs love to take it up the ass

Is there a rebuttal somewhere hidden in this response? Does TNH have insider knowledge as to how this will play out? Or, as in my judgment, TNH is simply too dumb to consider the consequences on every issues upon which he opines, and simply writes what he has been told to believe by the right wing propaganda machine? And using "LWNJs" without definition in a vulgar post is solid evidence of his immaturity and lack of education.

Why do I need a rebuttal for that malarkey? We are the strongest country in the world. Quit being such a pussy. This is why nationalism is so popular right now. So many people are worried about everyone else.
What do you think will be so bad? Them dumping 800B in bonds? lol

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

You're an imbecile. The idea that there's something wrong with expecting people in our country to share a common language and a common set of values, like a belief in freedom, is the lowest form of idiocy.

Damn, you are dumb. Which side of the aisle advocates English Only? Not be you Fng moron.

Was that supposed to be some kind of coherent thought?

 

[TNHarley]

Damn, you are dumb. Which side of the aisle advocates English Only? Not be you Fng moron.

 

[g5000]

The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s 41-Year U.S. Debt Secret

I experienced a rather amusing moment, at my expense, with William Simon in 1977.

There isn't much that was news to me in that article. It's general knowledge there is a lot of sovereign wealth invested in US Treasury bonds. What is not known is the specific amount.

Saudi Arabia has come face-to-face with a crisis everyone knew was coming, except it came sooner rather than later.

I will now repost something I have posted on this forum before:

You want to hear a number that is mind boggling?

According to the CIA World Factbook, there are 1.656 trillion barrels of proved oil reserves.

That's not the mind boggling part. Hold on.

But first, I must specify what "proved oil reserves" means:

"Proved reserves are those quantities of petroleum which, by analysis of geological and engineering data, can be estimated with a high degree of confidence to be commercially recoverable from a given date forward, from known reservoirs and under current economic conditions."

Okay. That's oil we know is there. It's money just sitting in the ground, waiting to be taken out and put in the bank.

Here's comes the mind blower.

The price of crude oil on January 31, 2014 was $102.10. The price of crude oil on January 31, 2016 was $29.78.

So, let's do the math and see how much wealth has gone up in smoke. Ready?

102.10 - 29.78 = 72.32.

So in the past two years, every proven reserve barrel of oil has lost $72.32 in value.

Multiply that by the 1.656 trillion barrels of proven reserves, and in the past two years $119,761,920,000,000 of wealth has vaporized.

$120 TRILLION!!!!

So what's the big deal, you may be wondering. It's not like the oil in the ground is actually someone's bank account and they have lost money.

Oh, but it actually is someone's bank account. You see, those people who own those reserves have gotten loans and issued high interest bonds, using those reserves as collateral.

What happens to a debtor when their collateral loses value? What do you think all those creditors holding those high interest bonds and the paper on all those loans are thinking as they ponder the fact the collateral backing all those bonds has lost $120 trillion in value?

What do you think the investors who bought tranches of derivatives build on all those loans and bonds are thinking?

Yeah.

Let the fun times begin.

 

[Wry Catcher]

1. We are not the strongest country in the world, our economy is weakened by the pretense that might makes right
2. Patriotism is not the same as Nationalism, the former is broad and encomposes all of our citizens, their traditions and our system of governance
3. Nationalism isn't broad, it is an extreme form of patriotism by people who disdain multiculturalism and a belief that the people should share a common language and so called traditional values.

ok so why are you so worried about SA

I'm worried that the hate and fear rhetoric of Trump and others will further erode our relationship to nations around the world. I suggest you read the link in the OP, maybe then you can comment with some credibility on this issue and others.

so you think we have a good relationship with SA? Please, tell me more!

FU and your straw man. We know G.W. Bush and Family has a good relationship with the Saudi Royalty, but to suggest I support an ultra conservative nation which suppresses the rights of women and foreign workers is both ridiculous and even for you a stupid comment, but not unexpected.

you said" erode our relationship" which would imply you think we have a good one. Either that or you are happy with fucked up relationships..
So, why are you so worried about our relationship with SA?

Gee, we can only have friends or enemies? Is that the simple understanding you take away, Simon? Nothing in between? I did not "imply" anything of the sort, you inferred it incorrectly due to you biases and ignorance.

 

[bendog]

The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s 41-Year U.S. Debt Secret

I experienced a rather amusing moment, at my expense, with William Simon in 1977.

There isn't much that was news to me in that article. It's general knowledge there is a lot of sovereign wealth invested in US Treasury bonds. What is not known is the specific amount.

Saudi Arabia has come face-to-face with a crisis everyone knew was coming, except it came sooner rather than later.

I will now repost something I have posted on this forum before:

You want to hear a number that is mind boggling?

According to the CIA World Factbook, there are 1.656 trillion barrels of proved oil reserves.

That's not the mind boggling part. Hold on.

But first, I must specify what "proved oil reserves" means:

"Proved reserves are those quantities of petroleum which, by analysis of geological and engineering data, can be estimated with a high degree of confidence to be commercially recoverable from a given date forward, from known reservoirs and under current economic conditions."

Okay. That's oil we know is there. It's money just sitting in the ground, waiting to be taken out and put in the bank.

Here's comes the mind blower.

The price of crude oil on January 31, 2014 was $102.10. The price of crude oil on January 31, 2016 was $29.78.

So, let's do the math and see how much wealth has gone up in smoke. Ready?

102.10 - 29.78 = 72.32.

So in the past two years, every proven reserve barrel of oil has lost $72.32 in value.

Multiply that by the 1.656 trillion barrels of proven reserves, and in the past two years $119,761,920,000,000 of wealth has vaporized.

$120 TRILLION!!!!

So what's the big deal, you may be wondering. It's not like the oil in the ground is actually someone's bank account and they have lost money.

Oh, but it actually is someone's bank account. You see, those people who own those reserves have gotten loans and issued high interest bonds, using those reserves as collateral.

What happens to a debtor when their collateral loses value? What do you think all those creditors holding those high interest bonds and the paper on all those loans are thinking as they ponder the fact the collateral backing all those bonds has lost $120 trillion in value?

What do you think the investors who bought tranches of derivatives build on all those loans and bonds are thinking?

Yeah.

Let the fun times begin.

And Iran's debt is only 4% of gnp

 

[TNHarley]

ok so why are you so worried about SA

I'm worried that the hate and fear rhetoric of Trump and others will further erode our relationship to nations around the world. I suggest you read the link in the OP, maybe then you can comment with some credibility on this issue and others.

so you think we have a good relationship with SA? Please, tell me more!

FU and your straw man. We know G.W. Bush and Family has a good relationship with the Saudi Royalty, but to suggest I support an ultra conservative nation which suppresses the rights of women and foreign workers is both ridiculous and even for you a stupid comment, but not unexpected.

you said" erode our relationship" which would imply you think we have a good one. Either that or you are happy with fucked up relationships..
So, why are you so worried about our relationship with SA?

Gee, we can only have friends or enemies? Is that the simple understanding you take away, Simon? Nothing in between? I did not "imply" anything of the sort, you inferred it incorrectly due to you biases and ignorance.

biases against what?
Are you saying a state sponsor of terrorism that funded the destruction of thousands of lives and infrastructure are "in the middle"?
Im having trouble interpreting your opinion because you apparently don't have one..