Paul Krugman "hits the nail on the head" in re: Obamacare

[Listening]

thanks for the thread-bump welchboi

As to the OP (lets try to stay on-topic eh?) Why is Repub leadership punishing rw members who might want to help fine tune the Heritagecare law just like Democrats helped fix/fine tune the repubs Medicare Part D roll out?

welchboi- I heard enough from you son. Go post on someone's thread that wants to hear your rw ravings

Heritagecare law ?

Now that is good.

 

[Flopper]

This isn't true in all respects.

The first thing I think of is medical procedures that are purely cosmetic. They should absolutely operate in a free market.

The next tier is "grey area" things like marginal hip replacements (i.e. if you are still walking, do you need one ?). We don't demand anything on that level.

If you are having a heart attack...that is a different story (and I've never heard a disagreement over that).

So, I would not say that your statement covers all aspects of healthcare accurately.

No, but it covers most healthcare. Cosmetic surgery isn't covered by most insurance with or without Obamacare unless it's judge medically necessary, such as injuries due to accidents, problems caused by other surgery or disease.

The problem with so many of the grey areas, is they can lead to serious problems if not diagnosed and treated. There are a lot of things that look like heart disease or cancer and only a professional can tell the difference. However, from a cost perspective, the rise in deductibles that we are seeing will certain persuade some people to postpone going to a doctor. Whether this is good or bad, only time will tell.

Your statement above says that healthcare should be looked at as a multi-tiered institution.

At some point in the grey areas, there is an element of risk that should be ascribed to the individual.

If you don't buy the insurance for cancer...and you get cancer...you either pony up or you don't get help.

I know it sucks. But if you are always willing to catch people, they'll never learn to avoid falling.

If you get nice and fat and get diabetes....you are on your own.

Medicare is a two-tier system which is why a majority of Medicare patients carry some type of supplemental insurance. In fact, most single payer systems are two-tier with single payer providing basic healthcare and the supplemental insurance providing add-on coverage. When the US adopts single payer, you can bet it will be two-tiered.

I don't think people running to doctor for frivolous reasons are a problem today and looking at Obamacare it's certainly not going to be one in the future. The days of no or low deductibles, coy-pays, and co-insurance are a thing the past. Deductibles have been rising for years and Obamacare is giving them another push up.

Actually, the higher deductibles that many people face under Obamacare does exactly what conservatives have been pushing for years, having the customer pay a larger share of their healthcare. Conservatives have long claimed that if the customer pays a larger share, they will be more prudent with their healthcare dollars and shop for services. In the long run, I think Republicans may actually become more supportive of Obamacare than Democrats.

If control of congress were evenly split, I think the Democrats would have pushed single payer and Republicans would have backed a bill that contains much of what is in Obamacare.

 

[Listening]

No, but it covers most healthcare. Cosmetic surgery isn't covered by most insurance with or without Obamacare unless it's judge medically necessary, such as injuries due to accidents, problems caused by other surgery or disease.

The problem with so many of the grey areas, is they can lead to serious problems if not diagnosed and treated. There are a lot of things that look like heart disease or cancer and only a professional can tell the difference. However, from a cost perspective, the rise in deductibles that we are seeing will certain persuade some people to postpone going to a doctor. Whether this is good or bad, only time will tell.

Your statement above says that healthcare should be looked at as a multi-tiered institution.

At some point in the grey areas, there is an element of risk that should be ascribed to the individual.

If you don't buy the insurance for cancer...and you get cancer...you either pony up or you don't get help.

I know it sucks. But if you are always willing to catch people, they'll never learn to avoid falling.

If you get nice and fat and get diabetes....you are on your own.

Medicare is a two-tier system which is why a majority of Medicare patients carry some type of supplemental insurance. In fact, most single payer systems are two-tier with single payer providing basic healthcare and the supplemental insurance providing add-on coverage. When the US adopts single payer, you can bet it will be two-tiered.

I don't think people running to doctor for frivolous reasons are a problem today and looking at Obamacare it's certainly not going to be one in the future. The days of no or low deductibles, coy-pays, and co-insurance are a thing the past. Deductibles have been rising for years and Obamacare is giving them another push up.

Actually, the higher deductibles that many people face under Obamacare does exactly what conservatives have been pushing for years, having the customer pay a larger share of their healthcare. Conservatives have long claimed that if the customer pays a larger share, they will be more prudent with their healthcare dollars and shop for services. In the long run, I think Republicans may actually become more supportive of Obamacare than Democrats.

If control of congress were evenly split, I think the Democrats would have pushed single payer and Republicans would have backed a bill that contains much of what is in Obamacare.

There are a couple of points I'll address, but this thread is about a moron named Paul Krugman talking out his ass and one of his (bigger) moron worshippers not understanding that what he cited was just more Krugman horseshyt.

So...I like the idea of higher copays or the idea of being able to manage more of my health care costs. When my company first started our HSA program, I jumped right on. I now have a significant sum of money in my HSA. My monthly premiums are lower.

Under Obamacare, deductables are going up and so are premiums...in many cases by a great deal. You can't spread more insurance onto people who don't currently pay it (and supposedly can't afford it) and then wonder why everyone else isn't going to pay more.

That is why they are forcing these more expensive plans on people.

The idea of pre-existing conditions didn't just suddenly appear under Obamacare. it is unfortunate that this crappy way of doing things had to be "solved" with a POS bill.

What really used to piss me off was that people could be dropped from plans if they got sick. Insurance commissioners in most states let that happen (you know...the government). Nobody could ever explain to me how insurance was insurance if it could be taken away.

There are things that needed to happen to fix some problems with the system.

Obamacare is a really sad commentary on America. We don't think we are smart enough to take care of ourselves...so we hand it over to some of "us..as in we" to do it for us. And look what we get.

 

[Flopper]

Your statement above says that healthcare should be looked at as a multi-tiered institution.

At some point in the grey areas, there is an element of risk that should be ascribed to the individual.

If you don't buy the insurance for cancer...and you get cancer...you either pony up or you don't get help.

I know it sucks. But if you are always willing to catch people, they'll never learn to avoid falling.

If you get nice and fat and get diabetes....you are on your own.

Medicare is a two-tier system which is why a majority of Medicare patients carry some type of supplemental insurance. In fact, most single payer systems are two-tier with single payer providing basic healthcare and the supplemental insurance providing add-on coverage. When the US adopts single payer, you can bet it will be two-tiered.

I don't think people running to doctor for frivolous reasons are a problem today and looking at Obamacare it's certainly not going to be one in the future. The days of no or low deductibles, coy-pays, and co-insurance are a thing the past. Deductibles have been rising for years and Obamacare is giving them another push up.

Actually, the higher deductibles that many people face under Obamacare does exactly what conservatives have been pushing for years, having the customer pay a larger share of their healthcare. Conservatives have long claimed that if the customer pays a larger share, they will be more prudent with their healthcare dollars and shop for services. In the long run, I think Republicans may actually become more supportive of Obamacare than Democrats.

If control of congress were evenly split, I think the Democrats would have pushed single payer and Republicans would have backed a bill that contains much of what is in Obamacare.

There are a couple of points I'll address, but this thread is about a moron named Paul Krugman talking out his ass and one of his (bigger) moron worshippers not understanding that what he cited was just more Krugman horseshyt.

So...I like the idea of higher copays or the idea of being able to manage more of my health care costs. When my company first started our HSA program, I jumped right on. I now have a significant sum of money in my HSA. My monthly premiums are lower.

Under Obamacare, deductables are going up and so are premiums...in many cases by a great deal. You can't spread more insurance onto people who don't currently pay it (and supposedly can't afford it) and then wonder why everyone else isn't going to pay more.

That is why they are forcing these more expensive plans on people.

The idea of pre-existing conditions didn't just suddenly appear under Obamacare. it is unfortunate that this crappy way of doing things had to be "solved" with a POS bill.

What really used to piss me off was that people could be dropped from plans if they got sick. Insurance commissioners in most states let that happen (you know...the government). Nobody could ever explain to me how insurance was insurance if it could be taken away.

There are things that needed to happen to fix some problems with the system.

Obamacare is a really sad commentary on America. We don't think we are smart enough to take care of ourselves...so we hand it over to some of "us..as in we" to do it for us. And look what we get.

The pre-existing conditions exclusion could have been handled differently. Almost all states have high risk pools which is where people ended up if they are caught by the exclusion. The problem of course is the insurance options in the pool are limited and costs are well beyond most people's ability to pay. A system of subsidies could have been setup and the mandates would not be required. However, without mandates, insurance coverage would be a lot less over the long term.

 

[Listening]

Medicare is a two-tier system which is why a majority of Medicare patients carry some type of supplemental insurance. In fact, most single payer systems are two-tier with single payer providing basic healthcare and the supplemental insurance providing add-on coverage. When the US adopts single payer, you can bet it will be two-tiered.

I don't think people running to doctor for frivolous reasons are a problem today and looking at Obamacare it's certainly not going to be one in the future. The days of no or low deductibles, coy-pays, and co-insurance are a thing the past. Deductibles have been rising for years and Obamacare is giving them another push up.

Actually, the higher deductibles that many people face under Obamacare does exactly what conservatives have been pushing for years, having the customer pay a larger share of their healthcare. Conservatives have long claimed that if the customer pays a larger share, they will be more prudent with their healthcare dollars and shop for services. In the long run, I think Republicans may actually become more supportive of Obamacare than Democrats.

If control of congress were evenly split, I think the Democrats would have pushed single payer and Republicans would have backed a bill that contains much of what is in Obamacare.

There are a couple of points I'll address, but this thread is about a moron named Paul Krugman talking out his ass and one of his (bigger) moron worshippers not understanding that what he cited was just more Krugman horseshyt.

So...I like the idea of higher copays or the idea of being able to manage more of my health care costs. When my company first started our HSA program, I jumped right on. I now have a significant sum of money in my HSA. My monthly premiums are lower.

Under Obamacare, deductables are going up and so are premiums...in many cases by a great deal. You can't spread more insurance onto people who don't currently pay it (and supposedly can't afford it) and then wonder why everyone else isn't going to pay more.

That is why they are forcing these more expensive plans on people.

The idea of pre-existing conditions didn't just suddenly appear under Obamacare. it is unfortunate that this crappy way of doing things had to be "solved" with a POS bill.

What really used to piss me off was that people could be dropped from plans if they got sick. Insurance commissioners in most states let that happen (you know...the government). Nobody could ever explain to me how insurance was insurance if it could be taken away.

There are things that needed to happen to fix some problems with the system.

Obamacare is a really sad commentary on America. We don't think we are smart enough to take care of ourselves...so we hand it over to some of "us..as in we" to do it for us. And look what we get.

The pre-existing conditions exclusion could have been handled differently. Almost all states have high risk pools which is where people ended up if they are caught by the exclusion. The problem of course is the insurance options in the pool are limited and costs are well beyond most people's ability to pay. A system of subsidies could have been setup and the mandates would not be required. However, without mandates, insurance coverage would be a lot less over the long term.

This is a complicated topic to be sure. And one that should have been addressed a long time ago. People who are in high risk situations should be willing to submit to extended scrutiny and in return not have to pay such high premiums.

Some "pre-existing" conditions I am not so want to excuse (diabetes in a 400#er).

The GOP really blew it by not taking it up in 1994.

Hence, I tell all my conservative friends that we have nobody to blame but ourselves for this disaster we call Obamacare.

The OP is still nothing more than an unsupportable opinion turd.

 

[Dot Com]

OFF-TOPIC retards. Did you read the OP? I re-posted it for you here:

Krugman is a very wise man:

Unacceptable Realities

(snip)

​

You've been asked to show which Repubs want to help and how they've been "purged".

Put up boy.

Thanks for proving you haven't read the OP

 

[Listening]

OFF-TOPIC retards. Did you read the OP? I re-posted it for you here:

Krugman is a very wise man:

Unacceptable Realities

(snip)

​

You've been asked to show which Repubs want to help and how they've been "purged".

Put up boy.

He relies on an opinion piece that cites another article that shows where some people have taken a hit because they backed Obamacare. The piece is neither meaningful nor is it comprehensive.

Like people have not been arguing over this thing for five years now. And suddenly ???? there is difference of opinion over Obamacare and some republicans are going after each other on the issue. Wow...that's a shock.

Then you have Krugman claim that other countries have this guarantee....which isn't one. And when you show people how Krugman himself walked into a group of malcontents over what he thinks is so great...you only hear the crickets.

Then he says it has worked pretty well for 45 years. It has worked for some and not for others. What is not discussed is just how much of a credit card we've used on the system how that bill will come due. And that is going to really change things. Like I've posted in other places, Mayo started pushing back on medicare payments and basically told seniors they would need to pony up the difference if they wanted to see a doctor (this was at one clinic in AZ). You will only start to see more of this over time.

Mostly the OP is nothing but an opinion piece.

And Dottie still does nothing to support his blatherings (except to call people "son", which is what he probably calls the orderly who changes his diaper).

 

[Dot Com]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism

"I've not seen anything like this before," said Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "It is just such an interesting phenomenon -- call it anthropological or sociological or pathological. An obsessive hatred with all things Obamacare that has infected everybody on the Republican side. They can't say anything positive about any element of a law that is based on their own fundamental ideas. It means that when anybody says something that could in any way be construed as positive regarding Obamacare it becomes fodder for attacks. ... Conservatives are eating their own."

"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

 

[dblack]

My obsessive hated is reserved for corporatist government, regardless of its origin.

 

[dblack]

Single payer would certainly be taking over an entire industry, where SS and medicare aren't.
apples and oranges

Having said that, after this debacle with Obamacare, I think that the single payer system, because of Obamacare has had a major setback with the American people. We have seen firsthand what can happen with a government run industry.

If Medicare is accepted as constitutional, I don't see why single payer wouldn't be?

Fundamentally it's no different. That's why a lot of people opposed programs like Medicare in the first place. They wondered, "Where does it stop?" If government is to be responsible for providing old people with health care, what prevents it from assuming responsibIlity for health care for everyone, and if government is responsible for health care, why not food, housing, clothing or any of the other necessities of life?

These people were labelled "alarmists" and their concerns dismissed as slippery-slope paranoia. But here we are, moving right on down that slope. So, let's ask again, where does it stop? Clearly, the question is legitimate.

Still an open question.

 

[Meister]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism

"I've not seen anything like this before," said Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "It is just such an interesting phenomenon -- call it anthropological or sociological or pathological. An obsessive hatred with all things Obamacare that has infected everybody on the Republican side. They can't say anything positive about any element of a law that is based on their own fundamental ideas. It means that when anybody says something that could in any way be construed as positive regarding Obamacare it becomes fodder for attacks. ... Conservatives are eating their own."

"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

 

[Antares]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism

"I've not seen anything like this before," said Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "It is just such an interesting phenomenon -- call it anthropological or sociological or pathological. An obsessive hatred with all things Obamacare that has infected everybody on the Republican side. They can't say anything positive about any element of a law that is based on their own fundamental ideas. It means that when anybody says something that could in any way be construed as positive regarding Obamacare it becomes fodder for attacks. ... Conservatives are eating their own."

"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

I almost feel sorry for but then I remember you just aren't quite right in the head.

I'm seeing some guys opinion about Repubs but I'm not seeing any actual Repubs being eaten....huh.

WHO has been attacked for wanting to help?

Please prove to me you are not as stupid as you look right now?

 

[Dot Com]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism

"I've not seen anything like this before," said Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "It is just such an interesting phenomenon -- call it anthropological or sociological or pathological. An obsessive hatred with all things Obamacare that has infected everybody on the Republican side. They can't say anything positive about any element of a law that is based on their own fundamental ideas. It means that when anybody says something that could in any way be construed as positive regarding Obamacare it becomes fodder for attacks. ... Conservatives are eating their own."

"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

which one are you calling into question?

 

[Listening]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism

"I've not seen anything like this before," said Norm Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. "It is just such an interesting phenomenon -- call it anthropological or sociological or pathological. An obsessive hatred with all things Obamacare that has infected everybody on the Republican side. They can't say anything positive about any element of a law that is based on their own fundamental ideas. It means that when anybody says something that could in any way be construed as positive regarding Obamacare it becomes fodder for attacks. ... Conservatives are eating their own."

"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

I almost feel sorry for but then I remember you just aren't quite right in the head.

I'm seeing some guys opinion about Repubs but I'm not seeing any actual Repubs being eaten....huh.

WHO has been attacked for wanting to help?

Please prove to me you are not as stupid as you look right now?

You missed the point.

It supports Dottie's claims...so it must be so.

Never mind that the guy writes articles that sound more like crap Ed Shultz would write.

Since somebody put the word "conservative" in front of the place he works....well, you know, it must be so.

After all...Dottie is such a skilled debater......

 

[Amelia]

C'mon guys. Toss Dot a bone. All his eggs are in the basket of the most dishonest, most divisive president in modern times. He needs a morale boost.

 

[Listening]

C'mon guys. Toss Dot a bone. All his eggs are in the basket of the most dishonest, most divisive president in modern times. He needs a morale boost.

But we hate each other even more.

 

[Antares]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism


"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

which one are you calling into question?

I knew a Dot Com from another site...and just like you he believed EVERYTHING Obama said was Gospel...in fact he was SO in love with the man he viewed all dissent as racism....

You wouldn't be from Chicago would you?

 

[Listening]

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

which one are you calling into question?

I knew a Dot Com from another site...and just like you he believed EVERYTHING Obama said was Gospel...in fact he was SO in love with the man he viewed all dissent as racism....

You wouldn't be from Chicago would you?

Was she as stupid as our dottie ?

Even Chicago needs street sweepers.

 

[Meister]

whats keepin you latched-onto my thread then stalkerboi

Heres the "smoking gun" that Antares "missed"

The Rise Of Obamacare McCarthyism


"obsessive hatred"? Thats what many Repub-voters on this board exhibit as well

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

which one are you calling into question?

Seeing how you don't quite understand, dot. I was calling into question Norm Ornstein as being no more than a leftwing hack at the institute. They're a dime a dozen out there.

 

[Meister]

Norm Ornstein may be a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, but he anything but a conservative.
Written such articles as:

The Moral and Economic Imperative to Raise the Minimum Wage

The GOP's Cruel Crusade Against Food Stamps

Republicans Have No Interest in Fixing—or Even Understanding—Obamacare

The Republican Hardliners Aren't Conservatives, They're Radicals


just sayin.....

which one are you calling into question?

I knew a Dot Com from another site...and just like you he believed EVERYTHING Obama said was Gospel...in fact he was SO in love with the man he viewed all dissent as racism....

You wouldn't be from Chicago would you?

You have me confused with someone else, I believe.