Pathway to Peace.

[AVG-JOE]

Um...okay..Sunni/Shite is overplayed in the media. That being said, this isn't a factor in the I/P conflict. But what do you want to see? For a peace or two state solution? List e conditions you have for both sides, because this does require a lot of constructive dialogue.

I know... I just felt a need to explain my thoughts tracking down a path involving nuclear weapons.

The issue here is peace in modern Israel.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to establish peace with an enemy who prefers death over life?

Firstly, by putting aside the myths and gossip they heard on the internet.

For anyone who hates a group of people, be they gays, Catholics, Jews, Arabs or Americans, the first step is to recognise that the hatred is not rational.

Actually, rational is as rational does... There is no changing of a Monkeys attitude except for from within.

The first step is getting all the Monkeys in a Monkey house to recognize that acting in violence on their hatred or religious differences is not legal, and there are consequences.

This is why Civil Law MUST trump any and all religious law 100% of the time.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

BIK -

One day, I hope you can meet some of my Israeli friends. I have one friend who has gone to the trouble to learn Arabic, and during his military service his main complaint was Gaza settlers throwing rocks at him, while he protected them.

There any many, many Israelis who want peace.

I know that there are, have you ever been to Gaza?

 

[sealadaigh]

How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to establish peace with an enemy who prefers death over life?

i have never heard a palestinian crow about the option of Mutually Assured Destrution.

life?

there are those who prefer death over life as a slave.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Now, AVG-JOE, ask an Israeli the same question and you're most likely going to be told excuses because they will evade the question and rely on the security card. Israelis don't have much interest in peace, peace doesn't just mean calm from violence, that's what they want to make it out to be. A violent issue. That's not true though, the violations are the core of the conflict. You can't have an occupied West Bank. Not many people around the world support that. They may support Israel but they all disagree with what's going in the West Bank. Basically Israel is waging a non violent war against the Palestinians although some of it is state sponsored violence. But, the world ignores these actions as long as they don't kill anyone. That's what this has become. And it's being excused in that form. Keep in mind, I'm referring to the West Bank. Gaza on the other hand is getting a different approach from the Israeli government and is/was a great human rights violation for many reasons. But Israel wants Gaza to stay the way it is so they can call it an enemy state and they use it to instigate a conflict when peace is being pushed and when reconciliation between Palestinian factions is me eminent.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Israelis who want peace in their lifetime? For this to work, reasonable Monkeys with a stake in the fight must be found.

Security is a valid concern and the only way to find out if either side is truly interested in peace is to arrange for them to live as neighbor states, each with equal footing on the world Monkey stage.

If we're not all praying that 200 years from now this conflict is as memorable and fresh as the French and American revolutions are to us today, some of us need to switch Gods.

And if it requires a THREE state solution to succeed, isn't that better than a spray from an AK-47?

 

[irosie91]

BIK---- the people to talk to are muslims----from thousands of miles outside
of Israel------I did----actually they spoke to me----and this is what I learned

"its muslim land---jews have no business being there"

when muslim adolescent kids----from Pakistan, India,
Kenya, Indonesia-----start accepting the idea that
Israel is supposed to be there----there might be peace.
The violence is a result of that which is being
taught in mosques-----world-wide

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....Lipush is an Israeli who was adopted from South America. I'm a Palestinian who came from the Gaza Strip and I'm not originally from there, my family had land in the north, in Arabic it was called zarnouka. I think me and Lipush are the people who relate most to the conflict. It's personal with us.

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

I got your rep, I understand who you're referring to you but I kind of dont understand what you're saying. Some of it I do...

I suppose that the last two statements are directed at anyone and everyone who feels so threatened living among differing cultures of Monkeys that they feel a need to push their own agenda at the point of a gun.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

I got your rep, I understand who you're referring to you but I kind of dont understand what you're saying. Some of it I do...

I suppose that the last two statements are directed at anyone and everyone who feels so threatened living among differing cultures of Monkeys that they feel a need to push their own agenda at the point of a gun.

I get you're an atheist and all, but it just sounds confusing using the term 'monkeys'.

And I don't get what you're saying, it almost sounds as if you're saying its in the Palestinain's hands. As if they want their agenda but that's completely opposite of reality. It's israel which is going in the West Bank and trying to transform it into a Jewish colony with the Israeli army in control of major routes and borders.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Now, AVG-JOE, ask an Israeli the same question and you're most likely going to be told excuses because they will evade the question and rely on the security card. Israelis don't have much interest in peace, peace doesn't just mean calm from violence, that's what they want to make it out to be. A violent issue. That's not true though, the violations are the core of the conflict. You can't have an occupied West Bank. Not many people around the world support that. They may support Israel but they all disagree with what's going in the West Bank. Basically Israel is waging a non violent war against the Palestinians although some of it is state sponsored violence. But, the world ignores these actions as long as they don't kill anyone. That's what this has become. And it's being excused in that form. Keep in mind, I'm referring to the West Bank. Gaza on the other hand is getting a different approach from the Israeli government and is/was a great human rights violation for many reasons. But Israel wants Gaza to stay the way it is so they can call it an enemy state and they use it to instigate a conflict when peace is being pushed and when reconciliation between Palestinian factions is me eminent.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Israelis who want peace in their lifetime? For this to work, reasonable Monkeys with a stake in the fight must be found.

Security is a valid concern and the only way to find out if either side is truly interested in peace is to arrange for them to live as neighbor states, each with equal footing on the world Monkey stage.

If we're not all praying that 200 years from now this conflict is as memorable and fresh as the French and American revolutions are to us today, some of us need to switch Gods.

And if it requires a THREE state solution to succeed, isn't that better than a spray from an AK-47?

Security for Palestinians is a valid concern also. Now, tell me in your honest mind would israel accept a sovereign Palestinian state alongside them? And evacuate the settlers?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

No, we don't a three state solution, that sounds like a long term plan to destroy our heritage and culture. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank stand together. Connect the two.

 

[member]

AverageJoe: "PATHWAY TO PEACE"

 

[irosie91]

No, we don't a three state solution, that sounds like a long term plan to destroy our heritage and culture. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank stand together. Connect the two.

They cannot be connected over land----Israel is between them----the
answer to the dilemma is to create your "palestine" out of lands in
the hands of other arab countries -----egypt, lebanon, syria and jordan.
However lots of countries exist with parts no connected by land----The
USA has possessions and WHOLE states unconnected. If your
bretheren have any concern for your welfare at all---they will be delighted
to help you make a "connected" land...

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Quit making excuses and quit trying to divert the discussion. Yes it has been done, it used to be that way where a route was connecting the two territories. I had cousins who used to go through it and Israel had a checkpoint and had people bring ID's to go. And AVG-Joe is basically being our broker here. So lets actually have a discussion, you and me. Are you opposed to a two state solution or for one, Rosie?

 

[irosie91]

Quit making excuses and quit trying to divert the discussion. Yes it has been done, it used to be that way where a route was connecting the two territories. I had cousins who used to go through it and Israel had a checkpoint and had people bring ID's to go. And AVG-Joe is basically being our broker here. So lets actually have a discussion, you and me. Are you opposed to a two state solution or for one, Rosie?

Make up your mind BIK----allowing people to walk thru Israel is not the same as a
CONTIGUOUS 'palestine' -----allowing people to walk thru Israel---would have lots
of strings attached-----like intense security measures and DISALLOWING it the
moment some slut with a bomb on her ass tries to get in. There were all kinds
of "other situations" before telling girls to put bombs
on their asses developed as part of the ideology of mecca.

are YOU opposed to the "two state solution"?-----arabs had FULL CONTROL of
Gaza and the west bank ----1948 --- 1967 Obviously arabs are opposed
to the "two state solution" Obviously the entire ummah prefered to
maintain the people who lived in Gaza and on the west bank as STATELESS.

ARABS have kept them stateless for 65 years

 

[sealadaigh]

I got your rep, I understand who you're referring to you but I kind of dont understand what you're saying. Some of it I do...

I suppose that the last two statements are directed at anyone and everyone who feels so threatened living among differing cultures of Monkeys that they feel a need to push their own agenda at the point of a gun.

I get you're an atheist and all, but it just sounds confusing using the term 'monkeys'.

And I don't get what you're saying, it almost sounds as if you're saying its in the Palestinain's hands. As if they want their agenda but that's completely opposite of reality. It's israel which is going in the West Bank and trying to transform it into a Jewish colony with the Israeli army in control of major routes and borders.

people who call people "monkeys" are just trying to establish and exert some sort of intellectual "superiority" over others and really are no diferent than others who proselytise their particular brand of religion.

actually, truth be told, they are displaying their ignorance not only of evolution but linnaean classification as well. monkeys are not monophyletic as a group and exclude the families of the hylobatidae and the homininidae, to which we humans belong, or as i like to refer to us as, "PEOPLE".

but what're ya gonna do...some carbon based life that live on the third planet from the sunforms will always insist upon their brother multicellular organisms. it is just best to let them be irritating as they are unlikely to change, no matter which god we are going or not going to pray to to effect such a change.

LOL...c'mon AVE JOE, howz 'bout dumpin' the monkey routine. as for me, i neither believe nor dibelieve in god or monkeys as i am aithless and think about neither of them and their existence. i do however, oddly, believe al roker is hiding in my closet and wants to use my skin to cover an ottoman. he'll never take me alive...well...i gues that would be the point anyway...but i have glues some peppercorns on some hebrew nationals hot dogs where their eyes used to be, placed them in front of the closet strategically, and did some chants to jobu, who i also don't believe in, so that they will come alive and attack al roker should he ever get that "ottoman" gleam in his eye.

 

[toastman]

No, we don't a three state solution, that sounds like a long term plan to destroy our heritage and culture. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank stand together. Connect the two.

What heritage and culture ???????

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Quit making excuses and quit trying to divert the discussion. Yes it has been done, it used to be that way where a route was connecting the two territories. I had cousins who used to go through it and Israel had a checkpoint and had people bring ID's to go. And AVG-Joe is basically being our broker here. So lets actually have a discussion, you and me. Are you opposed to a two state solution or for one, Rosie?

Make up your mind BIK----allowing people to walk thru Israel is not the same as a
CONTIGUOUS 'palestine' -----allowing people to walk thru Israel---would have lots
of strings attached-----like intense security measures and DISALLOWING it the
moment some slut with a bomb on her ass tries to get in. There were all kinds
of "other situations" before telling girls to put bombs
on their asses developed as part of the ideology of mecca.

are YOU opposed to the "two state solution"?-----arabs had FULL CONTROL of
Gaza and the west bank ----1948 --- 1967 Obviously arabs are opposed
to the "two state solution" Obviously the entire ummah prefered to
maintain the people who lived in Gaza and on the west bank as STATELESS.

ARABS have kept them stateless for 65 years

You keep evading the question. And no it doesn't mean that, you're not aware of the route.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I got your rep, I understand who you're referring to you but I kind of dont understand what you're saying. Some of it I do...

I suppose that the last two statements are directed at anyone and everyone who feels so threatened living among differing cultures of Monkeys that they feel a need to push their own agenda at the point of a gun.

I get you're an atheist and all, but it just sounds confusing using the term 'monkeys'.

And I don't get what you're saying, it almost sounds as if you're saying its in the Palestinain's hands. As if they want their agenda but that's completely opposite of reality. It's israel which is going in the West Bank and trying to transform it into a Jewish colony with the Israeli army in control of major routes and borders.

It's a general reference to the human animal... and its Monkey, not monkey.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/education/285221-managing-monkey-business.html



With regards to the problem at hand, I'm definitely not saying that I have all the answers, my first concern is discussing the problem in a civil manner because the answers will never be found if the questions asked are wrapped in personal insults.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Now, AVG-JOE, ask an Israeli the same question and you're most likely going to be told excuses because they will evade the question and rely on the security card. Israelis don't have much interest in peace, peace doesn't just mean calm from violence, that's what they want to make it out to be. A violent issue. That's not true though, the violations are the core of the conflict. You can't have an occupied West Bank. Not many people around the world support that. They may support Israel but they all disagree with what's going in the West Bank. Basically Israel is waging a non violent war against the Palestinians although some of it is state sponsored violence. But, the world ignores these actions as long as they don't kill anyone. That's what this has become. And it's being excused in that form. Keep in mind, I'm referring to the West Bank. Gaza on the other hand is getting a different approach from the Israeli government and is/was a great human rights violation for many reasons. But Israel wants Gaza to stay the way it is so they can call it an enemy state and they use it to instigate a conflict when peace is being pushed and when reconciliation between Palestinian factions is me eminent.

Do you honestly believe that there are no Israelis who want peace in their lifetime? For this to work, reasonable Monkeys with a stake in the fight must be found.

Security is a valid concern and the only way to find out if either side is truly interested in peace is to arrange for them to live as neighbor states, each with equal footing on the world Monkey stage.

If we're not all praying that 200 years from now this conflict is as memorable and fresh as the French and American revolutions are to us today, some of us need to switch Gods.

And if it requires a THREE state solution to succeed, isn't that better than a spray from an AK-47?

Security for Palestinians is a valid concern also. Now, tell me in your honest mind would israel accept a sovereign Palestinian state alongside them? And evacuate the settlers?

My honest answer is I don't know. If I could predict the future I'd start a web site and make a fortune. My humble opinion is that the Jews are going to need to start suggesting maps for a two state solution if they ever want to live in peace.

And if they don't, the Palestinians should draw their own maps, present them to the world and ask Israel what their problem is.

 

[AVG-JOE]

No, we don't a three state solution, that sounds like a long term plan to destroy our heritage and culture. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank stand together. Connect the two.

This kind of information is good to know... and makes sense.