Pathway to Peace.

[docmauser1]

How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to establish peace with an enemy who prefers death over life?

Firstly, by putting aside the myths and gossip they heard on the internet.

Does it mean Gaza jihaders shoot rockets on the internet?

 

[Rocko]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....Lipush is an Israeli who was adopted from South America. I'm a Palestinian who came from the Gaza Strip and I'm not originally from there, my family had land in the north, in Arabic it was called zarnouka. I think me and Lipush are the people who relate most to the conflict. It's personal with us.

I totally agree...and it's a real pity that we don't have more posters here who actually do have either some stake in the conflict, or some knowledge of the conflict.

I can totally understand that few Israeli's could stomach the bile written about their country here, but it is a shame. If we had more Israeli posters, I suspect the nutcase element would eventually tire and leave.

You don't non Israeli Jews have a stake with what goes on with Israel? I think they would disagree.

 

[Saigon]

you AGAIN said nothing, Saigon. I did not learn of the hatred
muslims bear Israel and jews on the internet----I learned about it
from muslims long before AL Gore invented the internet. Prior to
that time-----I learned nothing about that situation. "

Really, Rosie, I don't care where you learned to hate. It's of no interest to me.

But it's worth considering how much that hatred costs you in terms of actually understanding the conflict.

You can hate or you can understand - you can't do both.

 

[Saigon]

You don't non Israeli Jews have a stake with what goes on with Israel? I think they would disagree.

They may feel they have a stake, but at the end of the day it is not their ass on the line if it all goes sour.

Many of my Israeli friends are completely contemptous of American Jews, who they say expect Israelis to fall on the ground and kiss their feet in appreciation. Then a bomb goes off and they all run away.

 

[Rocko]

You don't non Israeli Jews have a stake with what goes on with Israel? I think they would disagree.

They may feel they have a stake, but at the end of the day it is not their ass on the line if it all goes sour.

Many of my Israeli friends are completely contemptous of American Jews, who they say expect Israelis to fall on the ground and kiss their feet in appreciation. Then a bomb goes off and they all run away.

They may have less of a stake than someone living there, but the conflict affects them more than you or me. There are 13 million Jews in the world, 8 million on which live in Israel. Not to mention the great majority of Jews believe Israel is their holy land.

 

[Saigon]

Rocko -

Well, I used to live in Israel, so it certainly affected me at the time - less so right now as I'm not covering the Middle East. Even so, I would expect to be in Libya within a couple of years, so the concept of a stable ME certainly appeals to me.

 

[sealadaigh]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....Lipush is an Israeli who was adopted from South America. I'm a Palestinian who came from the Gaza Strip and I'm not originally from there, my family had land in the north, in Arabic it was called zarnouka. I think me and Lipush are the people who relate most to the conflict. It's personal with us.

it is probably not a good idea to try to guage the how deep and the whys behind the involvements of other people.

some may have very deep connections of which they do not speak.

 

[Rocko]

Rocko -

Well, I used to live in Israel, so it certainly affected me at the time - less so right now as I'm not covering the Middle East. Even so, I would expect to be in Libya within a couple of years, so the concept of a stable ME certainly appeals to me.

It effects everyone, but certain people have a more of vested interst in the conflict, which should be respected and understood.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....Lipush is an Israeli who was adopted from South America. I'm a Palestinian who came from the Gaza Strip and I'm not originally from there, my family had land in the north, in Arabic it was called zarnouka. I think me and Lipush are the people who relate most to the conflict. It's personal with us.

it is probably not a good idea to try to guage the how deep and the whys behind the involvements of other people.

some may have very deep connections of which they do not speak.

I know what you mean by that. I do understand it. But I was being direct to Joe just on that aspect.....

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

 

[Saigon]

it is probably not a good idea to try to guage the how deep and the whys behind the involvements of other people.

some may have very deep connections of which they do not speak.

I started a thread on this when I first started posting here.

It was fascinating, because all but one of the regulars opened up and talked about how they had become interested in the topic. Some had travelled there, others just come across some books, others had family in the region. But fascinating stuff.

Short of revealing something to do with their identitity, I can't think why people would be too secretive about their interest.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....Lipush is an Israeli who was adopted from South America. I'm a Palestinian who came from the Gaza Strip and I'm not originally from there, my family had land in the north, in Arabic it was called zarnouka. I think me and Lipush are the people who relate most to the conflict. It's personal with us.

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

I got your rep, I understand who you're referring to you but I kind of dont understand what you're saying. Some of it I do...

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

And if not compassion, at least a civil tongue.


Give peace a chance.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Joe you should actually consider there's not many actual Palestinians or Israelis here....

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

And if not compassion, at least a civil tongue.


Give peace a chance.

The West Bank needs to see some sovereignty first, and Gaza needs an end to the siege. That will give hope to many people to build the economy they want and to think larger. I can tell you the siege does affect Gaza directly from my experience. When these conditions are considered by the Israeli government then it will open a long term opportunity and chance for calm and prosperity. But the Israeli government(Likud) lives off war, it's the right wing party and if there was peace they would have no reason to exist.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Now, AVG-JOE, ask an Israeli the same question and you're most likely going to be told excuses because they will evade the question and rely on the security card. Israelis don't have much interest in peace, peace doesn't just mean calm from violence, that's what they want to make it out to be. A violent issue. That's not true though, the violations are the core of the conflict. You can't have an occupied West Bank. Not many people around the world support that. They may support Israel but they all disagree with what's going in the West Bank. Basically Israel is waging a non violent war against the Palestinians although some of it is state sponsored violence. But, the world ignores these actions as long as they don't kill anyone. That's what this has become. And it's being excused in that form. Keep in mind, I'm referring to the West Bank. Gaza on the other hand is getting a different approach from the Israeli government and is/was a great human rights violation for many reasons. But Israel wants Gaza to stay the way it is so they can call it an enemy state and they use it to instigate a conflict when peace is being pushed and when reconciliation between Palestinian factions is me eminent.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to establish peace with an enemy who prefers death over life?

Give the enemy equal footing in their own space and the freedom to figure out who among them wants to live, laugh, love, cry and die and who wants to change the world at the point of a gun. Ass-U-Me-ing the majority do want simply to live the best possible Monkey life that they can expect, helping them in the process of filtering out the disturbed individuals among them, who seem to be armed to the teeth somehow, wouldn't be such a bad idea either, all things considered.

I've met reasonable Monkeys from both sides and I'm not that well traveled... surely there must be more.....

If the ranks of those willing to push their ancient story at the point of a gun far outnumber the reasonable, we may have to dust off and nuke 'em from space.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I jest. Truly I do. I would never advocate the use of a nuke.

The most perplexing thing to me in the whole dynamic is the Shiite on Sunni / Sunni on Shiite violence, and both have a strong track record of pushing their ancient story at the point of a gun. The evolutionary libertarian in me wonders if the solution isn't to give 'em a patch of dirt and all the weapons of finite destruction they want and see who wins.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Um...okay..Sunni/Shite is overplayed in the media. That being said, this isn't a factor in the I/P conflict. But what do you want to see? For a peace or two state solution? List e conditions you have for both sides, because this does require a lot of constructive dialogue.

 

[Saigon]

BIK -

One day, I hope you can meet some of my Israeli friends. I have one friend who has gone to the trouble to learn Arabic, and during his military service his main complaint was Gaza settlers throwing rocks at him, while he protected them.

There any many, many Israelis who want peace.

 

[AVG-JOE]

All the more reason to discuss the issue with compassion for BOTH sides, if you ask me.



Not if the goal is living on a world where there are no 'lesser' Monkeys....

If the goal is 'winning', knock yourselves out - evolution isn't through with you.

And if not compassion, at least a civil tongue.


Give peace a chance.

The West Bank needs to see some sovereignty first, and Gaza needs an end to the siege. That will give hope to many people to build the economy they want and to think larger. I can tell you the siege does affect Gaza directly from my experience. When these conditions are considered by the Israeli government then it will open a long term opportunity and chance for calm and prosperity. But the Israeli government(Likud) lives off war, it's the right wing party and if there was peace they would have no reason to exist.

Understood.

The pesky devil in the details... which I actually read and understood from your reasonable, civil tongued post. That's all I'm saying.

And you're right... Israel needs to start the conversation about borders and they need to start it soon and with a real map and some dynamic flexibility.

Ass-u-me-ing a two state solution, clear and secure borders is step 1.