Paraphrase: Christians and Messianics Who Celebrate Passover Piss off Jews

[uptownlivin90]

Christian Seders Draw Concern
Messianic Jews relate Jewish ritual to Jesus.
By MELISSA NANN BURKE
Daily Record/Sunday News
Updated: 03/24/2010 01:31:11 PM EDT

At a traditional Passover seder, you'll find the broken matzo, taste the bitter herbs and listen to a retelling of the Exodus story.

You won't hear a mention of Jesus. But some churches -- including an East Manchester Township congregation -- are now hosting Christian seders, adding Christian symbolism to a 3,000-year-old Jewish ritual of remembrance.

At these seders, the stripes and holes in the matzo are said to represent Jesus' whipped and pierced body. The matzo is broken and wrapped in a white cloth, as was Jesus' body for burial.

Some Jews consider such seders to be offensive and a trespassing of sorts. They fear that Christians -- however well-meaning -- are infringing on Jewish liturgical territory.

I would love to see this turn into a court case one day.

Then the religious nazis can get us Seventh Day Adventists for following the Sabbath and obeying the dietary laws.

Silly, silly, silly. Your thoughts?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Weird.

The good friday supper that is celebrated in the eucharist was a passover seder, IIRC.

I think it might actually be a good idea. Passover is a very basic part of Jewish practice, and I do think lots of christians would be well off to learn some of its lessons.

Process of the celebration is questions and answers. Why do we do this, why do we eat this crappy food once a year? We need to remember that we were slaves, and we were liberated from slavery, and we need to remember where we came from, and what our goals are.

 

[jillian]

The characterization of an evangelical of what she thinks jews think?

yeah, right.

how about not cutting off the article before this:

I wouldn't go so far as to say I am offended by the borrowing," Astrachan said by e-mail. "I am, however, disturbed that some fringe groups can't leave others alone to select a faith of their own choosing. If the Messianics want to be true at all to their Jewish roots, they would understand that Jews do not proselytize."

and next time, how about including your link.

Christian seders draw concern - The York Daily Record

btw, there is no such thing as a 'christian seder'. seder's had nothing to do with jesus except to the extent that his 'last supper' was one. and he attended it as would any other jew.

beyond that, i doubt anyone really cares. i just think it's pretty silly. and if it's being used to proselytize, i think that's inappropriate. but if it's just commemorative, who cares?

 

[uptownlivin90]

The characterization of an evangelical of what she thinks jews think?

yeah, right.

how about not cutting off the article before this:

I wouldn't go so far as to say I am offended by the borrowing," Astrachan said by e-mail. "I am, however, disturbed that some fringe groups can't leave others alone to select a faith of their own choosing. If the Messianics want to be true at all to their Jewish roots, they would understand that Jews do not proselytize."

and next time, how about including your link.

Christian seders draw concern - The York Daily Record

btw, there is no such thing as a 'christian seder'. seder's had nothing to do with jesus except to the extent that his 'last supper' was one. and he attended it as would any other jew.

beyond that, i doubt anyone really cares. i just think it's pretty silly. and if it's being used to proselytize, i think that's inappropriate. but if it's just commemorative, who cares?

Huh?

...evangelical?

...her?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[jillian]

did you bother reading your own article or look at its source?

or you just felt like creating yet another boring anti-semitic thread?

 

[Kalam]

I agree with the Jews. Making a mockery of another religion's holy day by distorting its intended meaning benefits nobody.

 

[uptownlivin90]

did you bother reading your own article or look at its source?

or you just felt like creating yet another boring anti-semitic thread?

There's a series of articles that I've read on the same topic one coming from the Houston Chronicle:

Christians marking Passover concern some Jews | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

I thought you were calling me an anti-semitic evangelical female. Being that I'm a non-evangelical male who's not anti-semitic it kind of threw me off.

 

[Avatar4321]

The characterization of an evangelical of what she thinks jews think?

yeah, right.

how about not cutting off the article before this:

I wouldn't go so far as to say I am offended by the borrowing," Astrachan said by e-mail. "I am, however, disturbed that some fringe groups can't leave others alone to select a faith of their own choosing. If the Messianics want to be true at all to their Jewish roots, they would understand that Jews do not proselytize."

and next time, how about including your link.

Christian seders draw concern - The York Daily Record

btw, there is no such thing as a 'christian seder'. seder's had nothing to do with jesus except to the extent that his 'last supper' was one. and he attended it as would any other jew.

beyond that, i doubt anyone really cares. i just think it's pretty silly. and if it's being used to proselytize, i think that's inappropriate. but if it's just commemorative, who cares?

Jonah didn't preach Repentence to Ninevah did he?

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree with the Jews. Making a mockery of another religion's holy day by distorting its intended meaning benefits nobody.

Except by any reasonable definition it's a Christian Holy day as well.

 

[JenyEliza]

I'm Roman Catholic. I went to Catholic school from K-8. We had several Jewish families whose children attended our school.

We *always* had Seder suppers for Passover. Always.

So sue us too.

 

[JenyEliza]

Weird.

The good friday supper that is celebrated in the eucharist was a passover seder, IIRC.

I think it might actually be a good idea. Passover is a very basic part of Jewish practice, and I do think lots of christians would be well off to learn some of its lessons.

Process of the celebration is questions and answers. Why do we do this, why do we eat this crappy food once a year? We need to remember that we were slaves, and we were liberated from slavery, and we need to remember where we came from, and what our goals are.

The Roman Catholic Mass is a reenactment of Jesus Christ's Last Supper. We (in reality) have a Seder each and every Mass.

Are Jews going to start protesting at our doors?

 

[eagleseven]

When was the last time the Jews killed Christians?

When was the last time Christians killed Jews?

 

[konradv]

btw, there is no such thing as a 'christian seder'. seder's had nothing to do with jesus except to the extent that his 'last supper' was one. and he attended it as would any other jew.
----------------------------

You would be wrong. Every Catholic Mass is the commemoration of a seder. Communion, as remembrance of the Last Supper, is also a remembrance of the Passover.

 

[CMike]

I consider it offensive.

As painful as this is to say I agree with Kalaam on this.

I am jewish. Someone I know, invited me to a seder. She told me that it was being held by a rabbi and things were explained. She told me that this rabbi has a missionary here.

I got suspicious, jews don't do missionaires. I asked if it was jews for jesus, and she said yes.

Passover has been done the same way for thousands of years. I really don't appreciate distorting, and twisting jewish traditions, so others can validate their beliefs.

Nothing in the passover seder has anything to do with jesus, and christianity in any manner.

I don't believe it should be illegal, obviously, but it is offensive.

 

[CMike]

Weird.

The good friday supper that is celebrated in the eucharist was a passover seder, IIRC.

I think it might actually be a good idea. Passover is a very basic part of Jewish practice, and I do think lots of christians would be well off to learn some of its lessons.

Process of the celebration is questions and answers. Why do we do this, why do we eat this crappy food once a year? We need to remember that we were slaves, and we were liberated from slavery, and we need to remember where we came from, and what our goals are.

The Roman Catholic Mass is a reenactment of Jesus Christ's Last Supper. We (in reality) have a Seder each and every Mass.

Are Jews going to start protesting at our doors?

You can do whatever you want.

However, a passover seder is a jewish ceremony. I don't appreciate the distortion and mockery of our traditions.

Also, if you are saying that the seder represents anything to do with jesus, you are not reenacting it.

 

[konradv]

Tough shit!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I missed something in the OP that those more in the know caught on to.

It is one thing to learn and move forward with understanding. Making a parody and a farce of other people's faith is just plain bad manners.

So I always think it is cool that folks want to learn more, and understand better. But when you are treading on emotional toes, it is better that you come into it with an honest attitude.

 

[Immanuel]

I consider it offensive.

As painful as this is to say I agree with Kalaam on this.

I am jewish. Someone I know, invited me to a seder. She told me that it was being held by a rabbi and things were explained. She told me that this rabbi has a missionary here.

I got suspicious, jews don't do missionaires. I asked if it was jews for jesus, and she said yes.

Passover has been done the same way for thousands of years. I really don't appreciate distorting, and twisting jewish traditions, so others can validate their beliefs.

Nothing in the passover seder has anything to do with jesus, and christianity in any manner.

I don't believe it should be illegal, obviously, but it is offensive.

No offense intended CMike, but I don't see our celebration of communion or the idea of a "Christian Seder" as mocking your traditions or beliefs. I was invited to a Passover Seder (of the Jewish variety) one time. I was working for a Jewish Community Center at the time. I felt honored to be included. I wish now that I had understood more of the traditions and the meaning of the Seder and that I was still close to the family who shared their Seder with me.

You could say that we distort your traditions, but that would not be intentional on our part. Rather it would be due to our lack of understanding and knowledge of your traditions.

Jesus Christ was Jewish. We Christians are supposed to be "Christlike". Continuing on the traditions of Passover should not in my opinion be considered a "mocking" of your faith, rather in fact, it should be a reverence for the faith of the Children of Israel. Unlike you, we put our emphasis upon what transpired during the Passover in which Christ died, but we believe that the first Passover was representative of what would transpire in the life of Christ, so as far as I am concerned the first Passover is also important in the lives of Christians and because of that fact, so are the traditions of the Jewish Seder.

We trace our faith back to the beginnings of your faith. Most of us have no intention of mocking your faith when we remember the Passover traditions. Unfortunately, however, a lot of us do not understand those traditions.

In other words, when you say this:

Nothing in the passover seder has anything to do with jesus, and christianity in any manner.

I believe you to be very, very wrong.

Immie

 

[CMike]

I appreciate your post.

 

[CMike]

The matzah has nothing to do with jesus. G-D spelled out the reason for the unleavened bread pretty clearly in Exodus 12

Exodus - Chapter 12 (Parshah Bo) - Exodus - Torah - Bible

14. And this day shall be for you as a memorial, and you shall celebrate it as a festival for the Lord; throughout your generations, you shall celebrate it as an everlasting statute. יד. וְהָיָה הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה לָכֶם לְזִכָּרוֹן וְחַגֹּתֶם אֹתוֹ חַג לַי־הֹוָ־ה לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם חֻקַּת עוֹלָם תְּחָגֻּהוּ:

15. For seven days you shall eat unleavened cakes, but on the preceding day you shall clear away all leaven from your houses, for whoever eats leaven from the first day until the seventh day that soul shall be cut off from Israel. טו. שִׁבְעַת יָמִים מַצּוֹת תֹּאכֵלוּ אַךְ בַּיּוֹם הָרִאשׁוֹן תַּשְׁבִּיתוּ שְּׂאֹר מִבָּתֵּיכֶם כִּי כָּל אֹכֵל חָמֵץ וְנִכְרְתָה הַנֶּפֶשׁ הַהִוא מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל מִיּוֹם הָרִאשֹׁן עַד יוֹם הַשְּׁבִעִי:

16. And on the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation; no work may be performed on them, but what is eaten by any soul that alone may be performed for you. טז. וּבַיּוֹם הָרִאשׁוֹן מִקְרָא קֹדֶשׁ וּבַיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי מִקְרָא קֹדֶשׁ יִהְיֶה לָכֶם כָּל מְלָאכָה לֹא יֵעָשֶׂה בָהֶם אַךְ אֲשֶׁר יֵאָכֵל לְכָל נֶפֶשׁ הוּא לְבַדּוֹ יֵעָשֶׂה לָכֶם:

17. And you shall watch over the unleavened cakes, for on this very day I have taken your legions out of the land of Egypt, and you shall observe this day throughout your generations, [as] an everlasting statute. יז. וּשְׁמַרְתֶּם אֶת הַמַּצּוֹת כִּי בְּעֶצֶם הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה הוֹצֵאתִי אֶת צִבְאוֹתֵיכֶם מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם וּשְׁמַרְתֶּם אֶת הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם חֻקַּת עוֹלָם:

18. In the first [month], on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, you shall eat unleavened cakes, until the twenty first day of the month in the evening. יח. בָּרִאשֹׁן בְּאַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר יוֹם לַחֹדֶשׁ בָּעֶרֶב תֹּאכְלוּ מַצֹּת עַד יוֹם הָאֶחָד וְעֶשְׂרִים לַחֹדֶשׁ בָּעָרֶב:

19. For seven days, leavening shall not be found in your houses, for whoever eats leavening that soul shall be cut off from the community of Israel, both among the strangers and the native born of the land. יט. שִׁבְעַת יָמִים שְׂאֹר לֹא יִמָּצֵא בְּבָתֵּיכֶם כִּי כָּל אֹכֵל מַחְמֶצֶת וְנִכְרְתָה הַנֶּפֶשׁ הַהִוא מֵעֲדַת יִשְׂרָאֵל בַּגֵּר וּבְאֶזְרַח הָאָרֶץ:

20. You shall not eat any leavening; throughout all your dwellings you shall eat unleavened cakes."