papers, please - once again republicans are working against freedom

[JakeStarkey]

there is no requirement to have ID

Permits and licenses, yes. IDs about citizenship, no. A requirement for such is an assault on all our liberties and freedoms. Any so-called far right conservatives that want this are revealing they are wannabee little fascists.

Your argument is backwards assed and hypocritical to your argument on government fascist healthcare.

Paying ss and medicare and medicaid taxes are not unconstitutional. Neither is the health care taxing regulations. Sorry about that. Your argument is the one that is wrong way and upside down. And telling you that you are wrong is not ad hom. You will have to do far, far better than that.

 

[blu]

there is no requirement to have ID

Depends on what state you live in, doesn't it? If you have no ID in Texas, you WILL be detained. It's that simple.

Oh, and that law IS enforced here contrary to the beliefs of some who say the it can't be enforced.

Link, please, because I know that it is not true about Texas.

I would hope its not true. what freedom that you need a card at all times

 

[WillowTree]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?


do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??


do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??


vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

 

[SFC Ollie]

US citizens merely need show their ID they're supposed to have anyway and they go their way, same as at a DWI checkpoint which is violating my freedoms because others choose to operate motor vehicles under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Or being required to produce a social security card and photo ID to obtain a job only to end up on job sites half-manned by illegals who have neither.

You're more than willing to let Big Brother ransack the wallets of those that earn and redistribute those earnings to those that don't; yet, Heaven forbid someone inconvenience you if you can politicize a common sense measure that doesn't even come close to the fascism we have currently at the Federal level.

there is no requirement to have ID

Permits and licenses, yes. IDs about citizenship, no. A requirement for such is an assault on all our liberties and freedoms. Any so-called far right conservatives that want this are revealing they are wannabee little fascists.

The only ID about citizenship required is for legal immigrants to have their Green Card. I'm certain that most of us carry a photo ID that shows we are either a citizen or at least here legally.

 

[bodecea]

there is no requirement to have ID

Depends on what state you live in, doesn't it? If you have no ID in Texas, you WILL be detained. It's that simple.

Oh, and that law IS enforced here contrary to the beliefs of some who say the it can't be enforced.

Link, please, because I know that it is not true about Texas.

I do too...my ex was a Texas police officer and I remember her talking about this years ago how they can't do that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Constitution suddenly got very flexible to a whole lot of conservatives.

Pointless ad hominem.

Well if you can find it in the constitution where the police can demand ID and proof of citizenship from you at any time or any place on the grounds that you look like you're from a foreign country, by all means cite it, and you win.

 

[blu]

The Constitution suddenly got very flexible to a whole lot of conservatives.

Pointless ad hominem.

Well if you can find it in the constitution where the police can demand ID and proof of citizenship from you at any time or any place on the grounds that you look like you're from a foreign country, by all means cite it, and you win.

indeed

 

[Nosmo King]

You're subject to be detained.

Suppose one was blond and blue eyed. Would they still get asked by the cops to show ID? There are illegal immigrants from Scandinavia too.

Or is this little bit of totalitarianism used exclusively for Latinos?

Anything to erode liberty! That's the Conservative way!

Suppose a frog had wings, would it bump it's ass on the ground when it hopped?

I'm pretty sure in this case it would be exclusive to those that looked as if they may be here illegally. I personally can tell in under a minute if a person is here legally or not and I wouldn't need to ask for an ID.

How is enforcing the law eroding liberty? My liberty isn't affected at all. The liberty of those that are here illegally would certainly be affected.

The enforcement should be done by the employer, right? If the employer isn't being forthright, then it's the responsibility of the INS. The enforcement to the law should be done at the border, right?

It should not impinge on any law abiding person, be he citizen, immigrant, tourist or business woman. This sort of enforcement technique has trouble written all over it.

And not the legal precedents and rulings that have slapped this sort of action down before. The trouble will come from the largest minority in the country; Latinos.

You are supporting a Jim Crow on the Brown rather than the Black. Why can't you folks learn from your mistakes?

 

[Nosmo King]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?


do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??


do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??


vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

In all those cases, there is an implied contract. ID at the airport? Fine. I realize it's for our safety.

Buying alcohol? Sure. I agree to show my ID to prove I can buy a restricted product.

Register to vote? Absolutely. No one is calling for the vote for illegals.

But this is stopping people and asking for ID without probable cause. Anybody can be stopped and asked for papers. In a land that's known as "Freedom", how can such a thing be fair?

 

[SFC Ollie]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?


do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??


do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??


vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

In all those cases, there is an implied contract. ID at the airport? Fine. I realize it's for our safety.

Buying alcohol? Sure. I agree to show my ID to prove I can buy a restricted product.

Register to vote? Absolutely. No one is calling for the vote for illegals.

But this is stopping people and asking for ID without probable cause. Anybody can be stopped and asked for papers. In a land that's known as "Freedom", how can such a thing be fair?

No one is stopping people without cause. Read the proposed law. It specifically says :

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

SB1070 - 492R - Senate Fact Sheet

 

[JakeStarkey]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?


do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??


do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??


vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

Willow, it is the facts that we want, not questions that are not supported without with facts. No one asks for my citizenship when I have voted in Texas, ever, and I have been voting here for more than thirty years. And most of the registrars have not know me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie, that 'probable cause' is going to be challenged very easily.

It won't get that far. The U.S. is going to tell Arizona "no", Arizona will sue, and SCOTUS will probably tell AZ "no".

 

[Meister]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?


do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??


do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??


vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

Willow, it is the facts that we want, not questions that you won't support with facts. No one asks for my citizenship when I have voted in Texas, ever, and I have been voting here for more than thirty years. And most of the registrars have not know me.

She does bring up some good points along with Gunny's street DUI check points.

 

[Meister]

there is no requirement to have ID

Permits and licenses, yes. IDs about citizenship, no. A requirement for such is an assault on all our liberties and freedoms. Any so-called far right conservatives that want this are revealing they are wannabee little fascists.

The only ID about citizenship required is for legal immigrants to have their Green Card. I'm certain that most of us carry a photo ID that shows we are either a citizen or at least here legally.

And if you don't have an ID, they have a right to detain you until the can verify your identification.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Permits and licenses, yes. IDs about citizenship, no. A requirement for such is an assault on all our liberties and freedoms. Any so-called far right conservatives that want this are revealing they are wannabee little fascists.

The only ID about citizenship required is for legal immigrants to have their Green Card. I'm certain that most of us carry a photo ID that shows we are either a citizen or at least here legally.

And if you don't have an ID, they have a right to detain you until the can verify your identification.

And I cannot find anything wrong with that. the proposed law goes on to authorize the transportation of any illegal to the nearest INS or Federal Police. All the thing does is tell Washington that if they won't enforce the Federal Laws then AZ will do it for them.

 

[blu]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?

do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??

do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??

vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

all of your examples have the potential to negatively affect people or some process such as a plane flying safely or having a valid election. walking down the street while looking mexican affects no one.

 

[SFC Ollie]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?

do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??

do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??

vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

all of your examples have the potential to negatively affect people or some process such as a plane flying safely or having a valid election. walking down the street while looking mexican affects no one.

Do you read the posts? check the links? How many times must I post this?

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

SB1070 - 492R - Senate Fact Sheet

 

[blu]

so,, being asked for an idea is inconvenient for libruls huh..


do you show your ID at the airport? or do you refuse?

do you take your shoes off at the airport or do you refuse?

do you walk through a scanner at the airport or do you refuse??

do you prove your age when buying alchohol or do you refuse??

vhen you register to vote in your state to you have to prove citizenship or do you refuse??

all of your examples have the potential to negatively affect people or some process such as a plane flying safely or having a valid election. walking down the street while looking mexican affects no one.

Do you read the posts? check the links? How many times must I post this?

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

SB1070 - 492R - Senate Fact Sheet

legitimate contacts just like "reasonable suspicion" I can't see that being abused just to then ask for papers

 

[SFC Ollie]

all of your examples have the potential to negatively affect people or some process such as a plane flying safely or having a valid election. walking down the street while looking mexican affects no one.

Do you read the posts? check the links? How many times must I post this?

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

SB1070 - 492R - Senate Fact Sheet

legitimate contacts just like "reasonable suspicion" I can't see that being abused just to then ask for papers

 

[JakeStarkey]

"reasonable contact" is the worm in the apple.

What bugs me is that some true conservatives here, like Ollie and Gunny, do not see that this law threatens citizens.

I generally do not believe that personal privacy has extensive protection in public. But the idea of a law enforcement official having the right to ask me for my "papers" invades whatever personal aura of privacy in public a citizen does have.

My carry permit, my car registration, my dmv license, my realty papers, my professional licenses and certifications - none of these require proof of citizenship/

I will go to Arizona, if it is enforced, with a video crew and a contract with a cable station, defy it when ordered to produces my papers, be arrested, and we will be broadcasting the world. I bet on the next weekend, there will be 100,000 protestorsl spreading all over the state with their cord cams and their auditors.