Paper shortages will enter into a crises mode by end of the summer.

[Likkmee]

If you can't grow bannana grow hemp...like that 'piece of paper" you refer to as this here con-stitution.Like bannana leaf it would be good to wipe your ass. Not the hemp tho...just the con-stitution. It's drastically softened over the centuries

 

[JohnDB]

Well..........why aren't we cranking the paper mills back up then? We used to produce our own products.

We do....but we produce different types of paper. Usually office paper and corrugated kraft. We also do some heavy kraft tube as well. We don't do a lot of laminated paper here in America. Especially when other places do it so much cheaper that shipping costs aren't an issue. Printing is usually done in Malaysian or Hong Kong.

Converting a production facility is costly and in this environment almost impossible. Because it's going to require equipment to be manufactured. It requires about 18 months from ground breaking to first test runs. IF (notice the big "if") you can get the labor and raw materials.
All of which is a big risk of expensive investment dollars for a shifting marketplace.

A lot of the valves required in a paper plant come from the UK. They have the precision steel machining needed to produce them. They aren't as simple as your garden faucet. We are having issues getting them currently...

 

[eagle1462010]

We do....but we produce different types of paper. Usually office paper and corrugated kraft. We also do some heavy kraft tube as well. We don't do a lot of laminated paper here in America. Especially when other places do it so much cheaper that shipping costs aren't an issue. Printing is usually done in Malaysian or Hong Kong.

Converting a production facility is costly and in this environment almost impossible. Because it's going to require equipment to be manufactured. It requires about 18 months from ground breaking to first test runs. IF (notice the big "if") you can get the labor and raw materials.
All of which is a big risk of expensive investment dollars for a shifting marketplace.

A lot of the valves required in a paper plant come from the UK. They have the precision steel machining needed to produce them. They aren't as simple as your garden faucet. We are having issues getting them currently...

We used to all of that...........And can do it again........problem is our inflation and cost of living will make it expensive as hell...........But we can't be dependent on others for everything.......it's a no win situation.

They will RESET US SOON........the debt can't be paid back now........not just here....money manipulation all over the world is out of control.

 

[BlackSand]

I drive by VAST pine forests everyday.............All we need to do is start it back up.

.

You have access to the raw materials, the desire and the vision ... What's stopping you?
It might be the idea that throwing your hard hat over the fence, isn't what it is going to take to make the paper.

.​

 

[eagle1462010]

.

You have access to the raw materials, the desire and the vision ... What's stopping you?
It might be the idea that throwing your hard hat over the fence, isn't what it is going to take to make the paper.

.​

What's stopping you.....................Tell you what get the federal reserve to hand me a trillion dollars out the back door and me and you can do it.

 

[BlackSand]

What's stopping you.....................Tell you what get the federal reserve to hand me a trillion dollars out the back door and me and you can do it.

.

If you are waiting for the government to provide for you, you deserve whatever garbage they see fit giving you.
On the other hand ... I am currently growing trees ... Let me know when you need them.

.​

 

[eagle1462010]

.

If you are waiting for the government to provide for you, you deserve whatever garbage they see fit giving you.
On the other hand ... I am currently growing trees ... Let me know when you need them.

.​

Who said I'm depending on them...............Need capital and bribe money in reality to do what you ask...........and no time machine to fix the inflation........next stop NIXON and going off the gold standard.

 

[Woodznutz]

.

Ask a current high school graduate if trees are a renewable resource.

.​

They think "a renewable resource" is a steady supply of pot.

 

[Woodznutz]

.

If you are waiting for the government to provide for you, you deserve whatever garbage they see fit giving you.
On the other hand ... I am currently growing trees ... Let me know when you need them.

.​

I can't grow trees myself but I am an annual contributor to The Arbor Day Foundation, and Trees For Tomorrow. (Hint for anyone who's interested in that sort of thing.)

 

[BlackSand]

Who said I'm depending on them...............Need capital and bribe money in reality to do what you ask...........and no time machine to fix the inflation........next stop NIXON and going off the gold standard.

.

I get where you are coming from, but it is deeper than that.

That's what I meant by "what makes the paper" ... Until you can put raw materials through the front door and finished production out the back door ...
And do so at a cost you can support and a price the consumer will pay ... Everyone's ideas don't mean anything.

The reason you see miles and miles of slash pine, is because the mills/corporations used to own the land and trees in a lot of cases.
When the process became too burdensome for the corporations to operate (they manufacture products, and their job is not growing trees) ...
They started selling the land and trees to foresters and companies.

When the forester owns the tree, the value is in the tree and not the product it will produce.
So you are not only dealing with additional regulatory concerns, but the manufacturer no longer controls the resources.

Thanks to the Government.

.​

 

[eagle1462010]

.

I get where you are coming from, but it is deeper than that.

That's what I meant by "what makes the paper" ... Until you can put raw materials through the front door and finished production out the back door ...
And do so at a cost you can support and a price the consumer will pay ... Everyone's ideas don't mean anything.

The reason you see miles and miles of slash pine, is because the mills/corporations used to own the land and trees in a lot of cases.
When the process became too burdensome for the corporations to operate (they manufacture products, and their job is not growing trees) ...
They started selling the land and trees to foresters and companies.

When the forester owns the tree, the value is in the tree and not the product it will produce.
So you are not only dealing with additional regulatory concerns, but the manufacturer no longer controls the resources.

Thanks to the Government.

.​

It's rigged against us on purpose..........The Gov't is too dang big..........spends too much and are destroying us.

 

[Woodznutz]

Dead and fallen trees are also a renewable resource (they keep dying and falling).

 

[eagle1462010]

Dead and fallen trees are also a renewable resource (they keep dying and falling).View attachment 651004

nice rack

 

[Dekster]

Here's the real problem, and it's similar to the baby formula problem. We've allowed too few companies to achieve a near monopoly.

The corrugated industry in the US is dominated by five companies - International Paper, Georgia Pacific, Westrock (formerly Smurfit-Stone), Pratt Industries, and Smurfit-Kappa. Usually, when IP announced a price increase, everyone else would follow within weeks, and it would trickle down through the entire system of distributors and users.

There are pluses and minuses to such things. The plus is that the larger they grow, the more economy of scale you can benefit from as a consumer with their lower cost per unit. This is a quirk of modern capitalism that I am not sure there really is a better solution to. Sure if we had 10 instead of 5 there would be more competition, but those 10 would be passing through more overhead than the 5, so as a consumer you are probably gonna be paying more with 10 than 5. This is why you see layoffs after most mergers--to shed the administrative redundancy of 2 companies vs. one company.

 

[Moonglow]

More failures of capitalism.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Pssttt... you guys are throwing every possible doomsday scenario out there hoping to blame biden for something.

I worked in the corrugated industry for 8 years. I've probably forgotten more about the paper industry than you'll ever learn.

Yeah... no.
I have been in the industry since 1985. What little you think you know... wouldn't fill my pinky.
Corrugated is one type of paper. There are 100s.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

More failures of capitalism.

You just keep saying that no matter how many times someone corrects you.
America doesn't even begin to represent a free market anymore. Hasn't since the 1980s.
The problem today is globalist corporatism. This is a bastardized off shoot of capitalism.
You rather have socialism, or another variation where the ownership of production is the government?
Really?

 

[Moonglow]

You just keep saying that no matter how many times someone corrects you.
America doesn't even begin to represent a free market anymore. Hasn't since the 1980s.
The problem today is globalist corporatism. This is a bastardized off shoot of capitalism.
You rather have socialism, or another variation where the ownership of production is the government?
Really?

Yeah, you keep on making excuses for the capitalist they enjoy it.

 

[JohnDB]

Actually....
A lot of the issues can be found right dead center in Wall Street.

Some of the largest mutual funds and their managers. They are the ones responsible for a lot of this mess. They are the corporate manipulators....

Ever been to a quarterly earnings report?
Not exactly fun stuff for a lot of people....kinda low on the rotten tomatoes score.

But I've heard enough questions from the fund managers themselves (or their lackeys) to know that a lot of this stuff is purely their doings. Especially in the lumber/wood products industry.

SOME of these companies are very environmentally friendly and conscious. They make their living from the forest and its ongoing existence. They know too well what a brown site is and what size each plants footprint is all about...and can they do more in their footprint? Wall Street is still just giving lip service to those ideals. They really don't care. They want profits...regardless of long term health of anyone or anything...including the forests.

Boise Cascade, LP, Weyerhaeuser, IP, Stone, and I'm forgetting someone.....these are the major players. They have land (forests) all over the globe...because that's only prudent. Currently the USA has more trees than during the war for its independence.
They plant trees, harvest trees, and make a lot of various products out of lumber. From 2x4's to OSB to office copy paper. And usually paper mills stink for miles and miles. Getting permits to build one are impossible.
Kodak, when they made paper...was absolutely the worst polluter around. They were lambasted by everyone except by name in public. The other "big boys" decided that they had enough of them....Micron Technology developed the digital camera to the point it was feasible to sell and use by the general consumer....and that killed Kodak.

 

[JoeB131]

eah... no.
I have been in the industry since 1985. What little you think you know... wouldn't fill my pinky.
Corrugated is one type of paper. There are 100s.

Sure you do, buddy, sure you do.