Palestinians Reject Two State Solution

[MJB12741]

Fabulous reply ROCCOR.. For some the truth hurts. Yet it remains true beyond any rational denial.[/QUOTE

Makes me wonder how many Palestinians & their supporters have ever read the works of Avicenna, Averroes. al-Kindi, al-Farabi or the Mu'tazillites? Brilliant Muslims of faith, peace worldly love & philosophy that influenced both Jewish & Christian thinking.

And today we have Palestinians to replace them.

 

[montelatici]

Challenger, et al,

And here again, is an example of trying to play the victim.

Individual Mental Capability and Intelligence ("supermen" --- "superior intelligences") are not characteristics that we can definitely explain the source; although we think it is primarily an inherited quality. There are things that can definitely detract from the ability to use the higher order mental functions two or more standard deviations above the norm, in given areas of understanding. But again, we don't know how to even measure intelligence. It is one of those attributes that we know it when we see it. But just as we can spot influential thinkers across various disciplines (Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Hypatia of Alexandria, Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Kepler, Isaac Newton, Mozart, Max Plank, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein, etc...), so it is that we can spot obvious voids in contributions.

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

(COMMENT)

Up until ≈ the 13th Century (the Islamic Golden Age was the 8th - 13th Century), the Arabs World was the center of technical science and mathematics. Something definitely happened. The Islamic World consists of of more then 20% of the global population. But after the 13th Century, contributes almost nothing. In the last 100 years, the Jewish Population (15B) has contributed more to civilization than the entire Global Muslim Population (400B) in the last 7 Centuries.

We do not know if the correlation has anything to do with productivity of the Islamic culture, but clearly, it can be said that their is a gap (World-wide) that directly correlates to the lack of productivity in the Arab Palestinians. And that world-wide observation has nothing to do with Israeli Occupation. It is the same observation everywhere.

Given that the Israelis have presented the opportunity to the Arab Palestinians to make the first overtures for peace, would it not be in the best interest of the "poor befuddled Palestinians" (as you describe them) to put their best foot forward?

Most Respectfully,
R

You do realize that Steve Jobs' father was a Syrian Muslim.

 

[Hollie]

Challenger, et al,

And here again, is an example of trying to play the victim.

Individual Mental Capability and Intelligence ("supermen" --- "superior intelligences") are not characteristics that we can definitely explain the source; although we think it is primarily an inherited quality. There are things that can definitely detract from the ability to use the higher order mental functions two or more standard deviations above the norm, in given areas of understanding. But again, we don't know how to even measure intelligence. It is one of those attributes that we know it when we see it. But just as we can spot influential thinkers across various disciplines (Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Hypatia of Alexandria, Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Kepler, Isaac Newton, Mozart, Max Plank, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein, etc...), so it is that we can spot obvious voids in contributions.

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

(COMMENT)

Up until ≈ the 13th Century (the Islamic Golden Age was the 8th - 13th Century), the Arabs World was the center of technical science and mathematics. Something definitely happened. The Islamic World consists of of more then 20% of the global population. But after the 13th Century, contributes almost nothing. In the last 100 years, the Jewish Population (15B) has contributed more to civilization than the entire Global Muslim Population (400B) in the last 7 Centuries.

We do not know if the correlation has anything to do with productivity of the Islamic culture, but clearly, it can be said that their is a gap (World-wide) that directly correlates to the lack of productivity in the Arab Palestinians. And that world-wide observation has nothing to do with Israeli Occupation. It is the same observation everywhere.

Given that the Israelis have presented the opportunity to the Arab Palestinians to make the first overtures for peace, would it not be in the best interest of the "poor befuddled Palestinians" (as you describe them) to put their best foot forward?

Most Respectfully,
R

Nicely stated, Rocco. I do have one quibble regarding Islam's alleged "golden age".

Islam’s “golden age” was not because of some sweeping affinity for science and innovation, It was because Islam was wealthy with the plunder of recent conquest. Once the rapid expansion into newly conquered territories ended and Moslems had to depend on being productive and innovative themselves, they discovered that they were not up to the task.

Let's not forget that the Islamic Empire collapsed from the inside.

So what happened?

Al-Ghazali published his book, “The Incoherence of the Philosophers.” That’s what happened. And Islam imploded as it abandoned rationalism, science and free inquiry. Its not just that the Europeans progressed faster than Islam. It’s also that Islam did not progress at all.

This is why the Islamic world has grown progressively backward over the last 700 years. It has fled from science. It has fled from philosophy. It has fled from uncomfortable truth, while the rest of the world embraced that truth and became progressively more powerful, wealthy and stable.

The Moslems were great collectors of preexisting knowledge, but they were pretty awful at innovation. There is almost nothing original that we can attribute to them. The Moslems were an empire of stamp collectors.

Second is Islam's inability to reconcile its own theology with the reality of its circumstance. The dissonance between the Islamic conception of Moslems as being specially loved by Allah, and the circumstances of a modern world in which (by every objective measure) it looks like Allah doesn’t like Moslems very much generates frustration and unreason. Islam understands that its “golden age” evaporated centuries ago, and they do not understand why. If Islam is correct, then history must be wrong, and the active effort to reconcile the two demands violent change to the status quo.

Third is its fundamental aversion to innovation, (bid’a). It has characterized progress as heresy, and as such is dogmatically unequipped to deal with a world that has outstripped the values of its 7th century Arab Warlord founder.

And lastly is a widely held theological tradition within Islam of the use of violence as a proper exercise of Allah’s will. Whether any particular individual Muslim hold these views or not, there is in fact a significant movement within Islam that understands the koran and the Sunnah to allow the violent imposition of Islamic ideology on the rest of the world.

 

[Hollie]

Challenger, et al,

And here again, is an example of trying to play the victim.

Individual Mental Capability and Intelligence ("supermen" --- "superior intelligences") are not characteristics that we can definitely explain the source; although we think it is primarily an inherited quality. There are things that can definitely detract from the ability to use the higher order mental functions two or more standard deviations above the norm, in given areas of understanding. But again, we don't know how to even measure intelligence. It is one of those attributes that we know it when we see it. But just as we can spot influential thinkers across various disciplines (Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Hypatia of Alexandria, Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Kepler, Isaac Newton, Mozart, Max Plank, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein, etc...), so it is that we can spot obvious voids in contributions.

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

(COMMENT)

Up until ≈ the 13th Century (the Islamic Golden Age was the 8th - 13th Century), the Arabs World was the center of technical science and mathematics. Something definitely happened. The Islamic World consists of of more then 20% of the global population. But after the 13th Century, contributes almost nothing. In the last 100 years, the Jewish Population (15B) has contributed more to civilization than the entire Global Muslim Population (400B) in the last 7 Centuries.

We do not know if the correlation has anything to do with productivity of the Islamic culture, but clearly, it can be said that their is a gap (World-wide) that directly correlates to the lack of productivity in the Arab Palestinians. And that world-wide observation has nothing to do with Israeli Occupation. It is the same observation everywhere.

Given that the Israelis have presented the opportunity to the Arab Palestinians to make the first overtures for peace, would it not be in the best interest of the "poor befuddled Palestinians" (as you describe them) to put their best foot forward?

Most Respectfully,
R

You do realize that Steve Jobs' father was a Syrian Muslim.

You do realize you're pointless.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Well, only part of this implication is true!

You do realize that Steve Jobs' father was a Syrian Muslim.

In the tumult following Steve Jobs’ resignation, the New York Post and others (here’s a good one translated from Arabic) have been digging up interviews with Steve Jobs’ biological father, Abdulfattah John Jandali, who is a Syrian-born Vice President of a casino in Reno, Nevada. He’s an 80-year old workaholic who is trying to avoid retirement at all costs (sounds familiar).

The Syrian immigrant says he is overcome with guilt for his treatment of Jobs and only learned recently that the child he gave up for adoption was the famous CEO.

(COMMENT)

Are you saying that Steve Jobs grew-up under a Muslim cultural family???

I was given the impression that Steve Job's father gave the son up for adoption (adopted by Clara and Paul Jobs).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Does it matter? Many Palestinians were Christian.

 

[Hollie]

Does it matter? Many Palestinians were Christian.

Many were not.

 

[montelatici]

Does it matter? Many Palestinians were Christian.

Many were not.

So what. The Jews expelled native Christians.

 

[Bleipriester]

So the topic is they refuse to have their own land generously offered by Israel?

WRONG they refused to have 78% of palestine generously offered by the LoN, and instead decided they wanted it all or would die trying

You are just eager to elevate this baseless opinion piece to the truth. In reality, it is Israel that rejects a two state solution and want it all. We see you guys screaming there is already a Palestine, Jordan while Israel builds more settlements.

 

[Shusha]

So what. The Jews expelled native Christians.

The irony....

 

[Phoenall]

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

Been done thousands of times and all the arab muslims do is impose pre conditions that stall the talks and then blame the Jews for not giving in to their demands.

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

You don't say.

One of those perceptions was the savagery for witch the Arabs were known.

This image of the Arab is still with use today. Whether we picture them settling bombs off in restaurants, suicide bombers on a crowed beach, kidnapping and murdering teenagers, or sending a laser-guided missile into the side of a school bus, the image that the name of the Arab Palestinians invokes is one of sheer barbarism.

All of which they learned from the Irgun, Lehi, Palmach and Hagana.

(COMMENT)

Terrorism have been around for much longer that this. Terrorism predates Alexander the Great. This line of thought gets you nowhere.

Don't evolve, see what that gets you.

Most Respectfully,
R

Depends how you view terrorism, certainly the use of terror tactics in warfare was well known to the Assyrians, 5000 years ago, but if by terrorism you mean a small group of fanatics killing in order to further their political/religious agenda, then look no further than the Jewish Sicarii, the first recorded terrorist group in history and if you believe Zionist historiography, direct descendants of the Irgun, Lehi, Palmach and Hagana.

Are you saying Jewish people haven't evolved?

No that arab muslims calling themselves palestinians are the ones that have not evolved, on the contrary they have regressed

 

[Phoenall]

By citizen of palestine the LoN meant citizen of the mandate of palestine

Link?

Read the mandate of palestine and the order in council, they have both been supplied quite a lot of times

 

[Challenger]

But they demanded it all on their terms

The Palestinians wanted all of Palestine?

WOW, how dare they?

Not quite. The Arab Palestinians wanted all of Palestine.

Why shouldn't they, it was, after all their homeland?

It was also the Jewish homeland.

If there is such a thing it would be situated either in modern Turkey or Iraq.

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

And here again, is an example of trying to play the victim.

Individual Mental Capability and Intelligence ("supermen" --- "superior intelligences") are not characteristics that we can definitely explain the source; although we think it is primarily an inherited quality. There are things that can definitely detract from the ability to use the higher order mental functions two or more standard deviations above the norm, in given areas of understanding. But again, we don't know how to even measure intelligence. It is one of those attributes that we know it when we see it. But just as we can spot influential thinkers across various disciplines (Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Hypatia of Alexandria, Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Kepler, Isaac Newton, Mozart, Max Plank, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein, etc...), so it is that we can spot obvious voids in contributions.

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

(COMMENT)

Up until ≈ the 13th Century (the Islamic Golden Age was the 8th - 13th Century), the Arabs World was the center of technical science and mathematics. Something definitely happened. The Islamic World consists of of more then 20% of the global population. But after the 13th Century, contributes almost nothing. In the last 100 years, the Jewish Population (15B) has contributed more to civilization than the entire Global Muslim Population (400B) in the last 7 Centuries.

We do not know if the correlation has anything to do with productivity of the Islamic culture, but clearly, it can be said that their is a gap (World-wide) that directly correlates to the lack of productivity in the Arab Palestinians. And that world-wide observation has nothing to do with Israeli Occupation. It is the same observation everywhere.

Given that the Israelis have presented the opportunity to the Arab Palestinians to make the first overtures for peace, would it not be in the best interest of the "poor befuddled Palestinians" (as you describe them) to put their best foot forward?

Most Respectfully,
R

Having worked with muslims I would put it down to the praying 5 times a day that interferes with productivity. Imagine a constant process that is brought to a halt repetitively because operators have to pray. The stopping of the process cost money in lost production, the start up after a stop cost money in lost production. The output is reduced and the process becomes "toxic" due to increasing use of raw materials. This is why arab nations employ ex pats to work their processing plants for them, and pay high wages to keep them. They cant put safety on the cards otherwise, and this alone is a reason to stop them from having Nuclear power stations

 

[Phoenall]

So the topic is they refuse to have their own land generously offered by Israel?

WRONG they refused to have 78% of palestine generously offered by the LoN, and instead decided they wanted it all or would die trying

You are just eager to elevate this baseless opinion piece to the truth. In reality, it is Israel that rejects a two state solution and want it all. We see you guys screaming there is already a Palestine, Jordan while Israel builds more settlements.

It is not an opinion piece it is the truth based on evidence freely available and often posted on this board. The LoN partitioned palestine giving 78% to the arab muslims. They demanded it all and threatened violence if they did not get it, which they made good on. You are correct in your assumption that there is already a " palestine" and the "palestinians" tried to take control by force. The King of Jordan ordered punitive punishments that resulted in as many as 50,000 refugees being killed, then cut them adrift with no support.

You have never produced a valid link to Israel denying a two state solution, while there are tens of thousands of valid links to the arab muslims refusing a two state solution

 

[Phoenall]

So what. The Jews expelled native Christians.

The irony....

Doesn't the moron know that the original Christians were the Jews who followed a wandering Rabbi called Jesus and were expelled by the Roman Catholics who stole the religion as theirs

 

[Phoenall]

But they demanded it all on their terms

The Palestinians wanted all of Palestine?

WOW, how dare they?

Not quite. The Arab Palestinians wanted all of Palestine.

Why shouldn't they, it was, after all their homeland?

It was also the Jewish homeland.

If there is such a thing it would be situated either in modern Turkey or Iraq.

WHY ?

 

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

And here again, is an example of trying to play the victim.

Individual Mental Capability and Intelligence ("supermen" --- "superior intelligences") are not characteristics that we can definitely explain the source; although we think it is primarily an inherited quality. There are things that can definitely detract from the ability to use the higher order mental functions two or more standard deviations above the norm, in given areas of understanding. But again, we don't know how to even measure intelligence. It is one of those attributes that we know it when we see it. But just as we can spot influential thinkers across various disciplines (Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Hypatia of Alexandria, Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Kepler, Isaac Newton, Mozart, Max Plank, Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein, etc...), so it is that we can spot obvious voids in contributions.

Whatever it is that the Arab Palestinians want, they have to present a solution to the Israelis.

Or perhaps these Zionist "supermen" can get their collective "superior intelligences" together and present a solution to the poor befuddled Palestinians, given the number of Nobel prizes they've accumulated over the years and their superior level of development (18th I think you said it was)?

(COMMENT)

Up until ≈ the 13th Century (the Islamic Golden Age was the 8th - 13th Century), the Arabs World was the center of technical science and mathematics. Something definitely happened. The Islamic World consists of of more then 20% of the global population. But after the 13th Century, contributes almost nothing. In the last 100 years, the Jewish Population (15B) has contributed more to civilization than the entire Global Muslim Population (400B) in the last 7 Centuries.

We do not know if the correlation has anything to do with productivity of the Islamic culture, but clearly, it can be said that their is a gap (World-wide) that directly correlates to the lack of productivity in the Arab Palestinians. And that world-wide observation has nothing to do with Israeli Occupation. It is the same observation everywhere.

Given that the Israelis have presented the opportunity to the Arab Palestinians to make the first overtures for peace, would it not be in the best interest of the "poor befuddled Palestinians" (as you describe them) to put their best foot forward?

Most Respectfully,
R

You do realize that Steve Jobs' father was a Syrian Muslim.

Proving what, apart from you will clutch at any straws to win a point

 

[Bleipriester]

So the topic is they refuse to have their own land generously offered by Israel?

WRONG they refused to have 78% of palestine generously offered by the LoN, and instead decided they wanted it all or would die trying

You are just eager to elevate this baseless opinion piece to the truth. In reality, it is Israel that rejects a two state solution and want it all. We see you guys screaming there is already a Palestine, Jordan while Israel builds more settlements.

It is not an opinion piece it is the truth based on evidence freely available and often posted on this board. The LoN partitioned palestine giving 78% to the arab muslims. They demanded it all and threatened violence if they did not get it, which they made good on. You are correct in your assumption that there is already a " palestine" and the "palestinians" tried to take control by force. The King of Jordan ordered punitive punishments that resulted in as many as 50,000 refugees being killed, then cut them adrift with no support.

You have never produced a valid link to Israel denying a two state solution, while there are tens of thousands of valid links to the arab muslims refusing a two state solution

There is massive evidence. When Israel demanded to be recognized in order to start two-states talk, Hamas recognized Israel. The Israel started the 2006 war in order to not to have two-state talks. Quite simple.