Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border

[P F Tinmore]

Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity

Yes. This.

In the current round of moral fog, which is just a repeat of the same old moral fog, Gazans are confronted with a boundary which exists for the safety of both parties (the border) and are attempting to cross it (in this case literally, but the meaning is also figurative). Gazans push up against the boundaries, ignore the boundaries, use violence across the boundaries. And then get pissy when there are consequences.

Hey, here's an idea -- try respecting the boundaries.

So, who crossed the boundary?

 

[Shusha]

So, who crossed the boundary?

In every case, both literal and figurative -- the Gazans.

 

[Shusha]

When your government says, "We are going to cross the border and rip your hearts out" you have crossed the boundary.

When you bring bombs and guns and firebombs and slingshots to a "peaceful protest" you have crossed the boundary.

When you put up swastikas you have crossed the boundary.

When you send a seven year old child to climb the border fence you have crossed the boundary.


Now, you are certainly correct to argue that Israel also "crossed the boundary" (the literal one) in responding to the violations. But she did not, at any time, in the past two weeks do so without cause.

 

[rylah]

Israel Versus Hamas: The Case for Moral Clarity

Yes. This.

In the current round of moral fog, which is just a repeat of the same old moral fog, Gazans are confronted with a boundary which exists for the safety of both parties (the border) and are attempting to cross it (in this case literally, but the meaning is also figurative). Gazans push up against the boundaries, ignore the boundaries, use violence across the boundaries. And then get pissy when there are consequences.

Hey, here's an idea -- try respecting the boundaries.

How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?

 

[Shusha]

How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?

Fascinating question. You know I'm a women's empowerment self-defense instructor, right?

The answer I would give to my students is that you can't. You can't make anyone respect your boundaries. What you can do is clearly establish your boundaries. And you can, sometimes, avoid people who routinely violate your boundaries. And you can defend your boundaries when you are violated.

But there is no way to compel someone to respect your boundaries.

 

[rylah]

How do You make one learn to respect and see Your boundaries?

Fascinating question. You know I'm a women's empowerment self-defense instructor, right?

The answer I would give to my students is that you can't. You can't make anyone respect your boundaries. What you can do is clearly establish your boundaries. And you can, sometimes, avoid people who routinely violate your boundaries. And you can defend your boundaries when you are violated.

But there is no way to compel someone to respect your boundaries.

Forgive me if it sounds cynical, self defense is a righteous act,
how does it apply to a kamikazee?

EDIT: on a 2nd thought it's an ugly sad question, I myself wouldn't want to answer, or take the decision.

 

[Shusha]

Forgive me if it sounds cynical, self defense is a righteous act,
how does it apply to a kamikazee?

EDIT: on a 2nd thought it's an ugly sad question, I myself wouldn't want to answer, or take the decision.

How does it apply to someone willing to sacrifice themselves in order to achieve the goal of taking you down? Its a question I encounter often, as it is a common thread with abusers in personal, intimate relationships. It is an ugly, sad question.

The answer is that you can only hope (and train) to survive.

 

[Andylusion]

Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.

This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat

That would be because there is no question. Israel belongs to Israelis. Murderous terrorist belong no where.

You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.

Palestinians will disappear. They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death. But they will disappear.

Israel and the Jews do not want the Palestinians to disappear.

They just want to live in peace side by side, as so many Arabs Muslims and Christians already do, be it in Israel or in the territories.

Many Arab Palestinians are peaceful. It is the destructive, poisonous Islamic teachings of demanding that Jews remain dhimmies to the Muslims which needs to go away.

It will take time.

The Arabs will lose, and will have to give up their attempts to destroy Israel.

The teachings and UNWRA have to go.

Only then, any possibility of peace can come up.

I used to think that way. I used to think "hey they just want peace just like the Jews". I originally had that view before about the year 2000. That's when a Jewish man in a car, who accidentally turned off on the wrong exit on a highway, was dragged from his car, beaten, tossed out the window of a police station, to a massive crowd of "peaceful Palestinians, and then decapitated, and his body tied to ropes, given to peaceful Palestinian children, and dragged through the streets of the city.

Because he was shooting Palestinians? Because he was military? Because he was beating people? No..... because he turned off the wrong exit.

That shattered my illusions, and made me question just how good and peaceful these Palestinians are.

Since then, more proof has been given that these people are anything but good, or peaceful.

Electing Hamas in 2006, proved to me, that is wasn't an isolated faction of violent people, but the wide spread opinion of at least the majority of voters.

And the last straw for me was the 'The Three Shalits' campaign in 2014, in which the Palestinians celebrated the kidnapping and murder of 3 Jewish kids.

Pro-kidnapping salute gains steam on Palestinian, Arab social media
Palestinian campaign celebrates kidnapping

I can promise you, in no uncertain terms, if my sisters kids were ever caught by me, celebrating the murder of unarmed helpless kids.... I would beat the snot out of them, and then her, for let them do such a thing. Then my father in his 70s, would come beat the snot out of them, and then her. Then my mother would spit on her face, and disown her.

This is the actions of animals, not human beings. No civilized worth while human does anything like this. Period.

So, no, I don't believe that the Palestinian have any real interest in peace.

As for the the tiny minority of them that may or may not exist, who actually want peace.... I would advise them that if they actually have any belief in peace, they should leave, and go live in peace elsewhere, because the rest of their society does not. They are evil, barely human, scum. And if they live with cruel terrible people, they will die with cruel terrible people.

That's life man. You hang with evil, you suffer with the evil. It's how the world works.

 

[Tilly]

Mainstream media only has a framework of violence to understand the Question of Palestine, which makes it ill-equipped to understand and explain one of the largest civil protests among Palestinians in recent history. That is why the media sounds like it is trying to shove a square into a circle as it fails to explicitly say Israel executed 18 Palestinians and injured 1400 others where no lethal threat was posed and while Palestinians were literally on their own lands in the buffer zone - 300-500 meters of agricultural lands Israel arbitrarily marked as a buffer zone- and not even at Israel's undeclared militarized border.

This is about Israel's settler anxiety and the inability to make Palestinians disappear- they have not forgotten, not assimilated into other countries, and struggle to return motivated by love and belonging. ~ Noura Erakat

That would be because there is no question. Israel belongs to Israelis. Murderous terrorist belong no where.

You can write this down, and post it on a calendar with my name by it.

Palestinians will disappear. They will either disappear by choice, or they will disappear by death. But they will disappear.

Israel and the Jews do not want the Palestinians to disappear.

They just want to live in peace side by side, as so many Arabs Muslims and Christians already do, be it in Israel or in the territories.

Many Arab Palestinians are peaceful. It is the destructive, poisonous Islamic teachings of demanding that Jews remain dhimmies to the Muslims which needs to go away.

It will take time.

The Arabs will lose, and will have to give up their attempts to destroy Israel.

The teachings and UNWRA have to go.

Only then, any possibility of peace can come up.

I used to think that way. I used to think "hey they just want peace just like the Jews". I originally had that view before about the year 2000. That's when a Jewish man in a car, who accidentally turned off on the wrong exit on a highway, was dragged from his car, beaten, tossed out the window of a police station, to a massive crowd of "peaceful Palestinians, and then decapitated, and his body tied to ropes, given to peaceful Palestinian children, and dragged through the streets of the city.

View attachment 187458

Because he was shooting Palestinians? Because he was military? Because he was beating people? No..... because he turned off the wrong exit.

That shattered my illusions, and made me question just how good and peaceful these Palestinians are.

Since then, more proof has been given that these people are anything but good, or peaceful.

Electing Hamas in 2006, proved to me, that is wasn't an isolated faction of violent people, but the wide spread opinion of at least the majority of voters.

And the last straw for me was the 'The Three Shalits' campaign in 2014, in which the Palestinians celebrated the kidnapping and murder of 3 Jewish kids.

Pro-kidnapping salute gains steam on Palestinian, Arab social media
Palestinian campaign celebrates kidnapping

View attachment 187459

I can promise you, in no uncertain terms, if my sisters kids were ever caught by me, celebrating the murder of unarmed helpless kids.... I would beat the snot out of them, and then her, for let them do such a thing. Then my father in his 70s, would come beat the snot out of them, and then her. Then my mother would spit on her face, and disown her.

This is the actions of animals, not human beings. No civilized worth while human does anything like this. Period.

So, no, I don't believe that the Palestinian have any real interest in peace.

As for the the tiny minority of them that may or may not exist, who actually want peace.... I would advise them that if they actually have any belief in peace, they should leave, and go live in peace elsewhere, because the rest of their society does not. They are evil, barely human, scum. And if they live with cruel terrible people, they will die with cruel terrible people.

That's life man. You hang with evil, you suffer with the evil. It's how the world works.

Oh Good Lord. I’d forgotten about the savages that tore that man apart.
Incomprehensible that humans could do this at all, let alone just because the other person is a Jewish Israeli.
I’m not religious, but when I read of such heinous acts, I find myself hoping there is a hell so these savages and people like them roast in it for eternity.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestinians Are Welcome to Protest But Not Infiltrate Israel En Masse (FB Video)

David Keyes interviewed by Gamal Fahnbulleh (Sky News)

Prime Minister Netanyahu's spokesman David Keyes was interviewed by Sky News presenter Gamal Fahnbulleh last week.

Q: How do you justify the deaths of 18 Palestinians on the Israel-Gaza border?
Keyes: Israel found itself in the unfortunate situation where a mob of tens of thousands was encroaching towards the border. People blew up the security fence. People launched Molotov cocktails. And Hamas' stated aim, which it repeated in recent days, is the total and utter annihilation of Israel. They even go so far as to advocate genocide of Jews and genocide of Americans. Ahmad Bahar, the deputy speaker of the parliament, called to "kill every single Jew." Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader, called to "eat the livers of the Israelis."
So when Israel found itself in a situation where it was being shot at, where people were trying to infiltrate en masse, it took the steps that any state would have taken and defended its people. The full onus is on this genocidal terrorist organization which is theocratic, dictatorial, doesn't care one wit about its people, and that's why it is stealing so much money, hiding behind children and women. They took a 7-year-old girl and sent her to Israeli soldiers so if she was shot it would be a victory for Hamas. This is insane. This is outrageous. This is an abomination and it should stop right now.

Q: You say no Israeli soldiers have been injured or killed. Where is the proportion?
Keyes: The way to judge what is right and wrong is not to tally up the sides and have the exact number of people. If a criminal comes into a home and starts shooting people, you don't say, well, unfortunately not enough policemen died protecting the family, and that's the situation we're in today. There's no parity whatsoever. There's no moral comparison whatsoever. I think we should be a little bit smarter than to say, well, we want the exact same number on both sides to die. That's ridiculous.

Q: Aren't some people just protesting for their right to return?
Keyes: What does the right to return mean? It's a euphemism for the destruction of Israel. Hamas' leadership has been abundantly clear. Ismail Haniyeh and Mahmoud al-Zahar routinely call for the annihilation of Israel. People are welcome to protest as much as they want, anywhere they want, anytime they want. What they can't do is try to infiltrate Israel en masse, which is exactly what they said they would do.

 

[Sixties Fan]

BBC News promotes political NGO’s commentary on Gaza video

 

[Sixties Fan]

• The Egyptian government is concerned that the events of the Hamas “Return March” in Gaza may spill over into Egyptian territory.
• Hamas has rejected an Egyptian proposal for Hamas to calm tensions in Gaza in exchange for Egypt opening the Rafah Crossing on a regular basis.

(full article online)

Why Egypt Is Concerned about Gaza

 

[Sixties Fan]

In addition, civilians who are not self-declared terrorists but are nevertheless sent to the fence are used, in effect, as human shields. It seems that most of the protesters have volunteered to take an active part in the violent protests; some are even paid by Hamas to participate. There are divergent interpretations in international law as to the proper response in such a case. One approach maintains that when a civilian chooses to take an active role in hostilities, of his own free will, he loses his immunity and may be attacked.

Even if many consider its cause to be just, the time has come for Hamas to be subjected to condemnation for its premeditated use of violent and dangerous actions and its intentional endangerment of the citizens under its control during demonstrations portrayed as civilian in nature. Only when Hamas (and those segments of the Palestinian population that support violence) realizes that the sympathy shown toward it is decreasing, and that there is no international support for or recognition of its efforts, will it be possible to reduce the number of such violent protests.

(full article online)

Decreasing international support for Hamas will stop Gaza violent protests

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ They are now starting it a day earlier. Actually, does it ever stop? ]

A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.

Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.

According to AFP, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.

If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.

(full article online)

Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters

 

[Hollie]

Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters

You're not paying attention.

 

[USAF 2023]

Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters

Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters

The Palestinians have to know that “ Right of Return” is a dead ( no pun) issue throwing Rocks, HomeMade Weapons, explosives is not going to help their “ cause”

 

[USAF 2023]

Why is Israel Threatened by Unarmed Gaza Protesters

You're not paying attention.

He never does

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ They are now starting it a day earlier. Actually, does it ever stop? ]

A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.

Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.

According to AFP, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.

If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.

(full article online)

Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border

What riot?
What clashes?

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ They are now starting it a day earlier. Actually, does it ever stop? ]

A rioter was shot and killed during a violent protest on the Israel-Gaza border Thursday evening, health officials in the Gaza Strip claimed.

Officials in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip identified the man as 28-year-old Abdullah al-Shahari, a resident of the Gaza Strip who was reportedly shot and killed during a demonstration outside of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip.

According to AFP, IDF officials could not confirm the incident.

If verified, the latest death would raise the total number of fatalities in the riots at 33.

(full article online)

Report: One killed in clashes on Gaza border

What riot?
What clashes?

As some have already pointed out....

You are not paying attention.