Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[toastman]

Saigon, when will you stop BITCHING ???

 

[Unkotare]

Saigon, when will you stop BITCHING ???

Only when everyone worships and adores him as much as he does himself, and agrees immediately and unconditionally with his every guess, assumption, and biased conclusion. Because he's special, you know.

 

[Indofred]

Indonesia anti-terror squad kills 7 militants | The Jakarta Post

The extremist, fantastic, wonderful Muslims who fight for Allah (not) , rob banks.
These aren't even good Muslims; just bastards out for cash.

The cops in Indonesia are mostly Muslims so good Muslims got rid of bad ones.

Is it possible for you to get in touch with this guy, Fred, and tell him that what goes on in someone's bedroom is really not his business and to stop being an extremist Muslim. With a huge population like Indonesia, there must be millions of homosexuals who just want to be left alone and would prefer not to be lashed. Tell him he doesn't have to follow the example of what happens to homosexuals in other Muslim countries.

Banda Aceh Deputy Mayor Pushes for Bylaw Criminalizing Same-Sex Relationships - The Jakarta Globe

Aceh is a tiny, self governing province in one small corner of Indonesia.
Islamic extremists have been a big problem there so many years and are a pain for everyone in the area as well as the national government.
Aceh is also where there is the biggest problems of drug abuse/cultivation and corruption.

Shariah Police Head in Aceh Tests Positive for Drug Use After Car Accident - The Jakarta Globe
TNT - The Naked Truth - 1 000 Indonesia cops on drugs
Aceh Police Deny Rape Claim Against Officers - The Jakarta Globe

and a load of other stuff.

These extremists, as with most in my humble opinion, are just corrupt bastards who use Islam as a route to power, not good Muslims.
Pretty much the rest of Indonesia wishes their power mad fools would curl up and die. I do for starters.

 

[Indofred]

Only a fool would deny there are problems in Indonesia but the place are generally getting better.

Only a fool would not admit that Indonesia is getting worse for people of other religions. We realize a good Muslim convert like you has to keep what is going on with regard to non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects under the blankets, so to speak, but we can read the news on the Internet to see what is going on. Evidently, Fred has a problem with Jewish settlements, but he doesn't seem to have a problem with people being murdered in the name of a religion or the house of worship of different religions being destroyed.

First things first - The 'red line', as it were.

You have to google what I see every day - I suspect that means you're in a far weaker position to know the truth than I.
I can post you some photos of new churches being built at the moment, if you like.
Some areas have corrupt local government but these officials are starting to get arrested now. Sadly, the problem isn't over and many will continue to use religion as an excuse for this type of corruption for a long time.
Then you have to look at the demo in support of the latest partially built church being knocked down.

Hardly anyone in Indonesia dresses that way except the moronic extremist element.
Frankly, **** them as a total waste of oxygen.

This is a picture of a crowd outside a drug bust.
How many do you see wearing clothes of the type those morons wear?

Secondly, you lied again.
I condemn religious violence regardless of who does what to who and you won't be able to quote me saying otherwise. I do accept violence against invading forces as that's an act of war.
If you read one of my posts above, you note I stand with the Christians when it comes to churches being torn down

Please admit you lied (again).

 

[toastman]

Indofred, you mentioned earlier in this thread that Indonesia is cracking down on the Muslim extremists, and I must say, that is VERY refreshing to hear !

 

[Indofred]

Indofred, you mentioned earlier in this thread that Indonesia is cracking down on the Muslim extremists, and I must say, that is VERY refreshing to hear !

I'm very pleased with this.
Extremists of any type are bad news for the group they claim to be fighting for as they make so many people hate the whole group, regardless of the truth of the matter.

We see people posting blind hate of Muslims and about the same sort of stuff about Jews but both groups of haters are equally wrong.

I'm hardly a fan of Zionism but I know most Jews aren't Zionists as most Muslims aren't terrorists.
Hate of a whole group for the actions of the few is hardly a display if intelligence.

 

[toastman]

I agree. I truly feel bad for the good Muslims out there who have their religion tarnished because of Jihadists. I know full well that most Muslims are good people who are not interested in Jihad and violence

 

[Unkotare]

You have to google what I see every day -

You work at Google? Must be a good job!

 

[Saigon]

I agree. I truly feel bad for the good Muslims out there who have their religion tarnished because of Jihadists. I know full well that most Muslims are good people who are not interested in Jihad and violence

I totally agree, and I'm pleased to hear you say this.

I really feel for people; especially from countries like Syria, Libya or Lebanon; who only want to live in peace but are always going to be treated in the west as potential terorrists.

 

[irosie91]

I agree. I truly feel bad for the good Muslims out there who have their religion tarnished because of Jihadists. I know full well that most Muslims are good people who are not interested in Jihad and violence

I totally agree, and I'm pleased to hear you say this.

I really feel for people; especially from countries like Syria, Libya or Lebanon; who only want to live in peace but are always going to be treated in the west as potential terorrists.

When did people from Syria, Lebanon, and Libya start being
treated like potential terrorists ? I have lived all my life in
the USA-----in a part of the USA that all my life has had
people from Syria, Lebanon, (just an occassional Libyan)
So far I have never encountered -----even now-----that they
are treated like "POTENTIAL TERRORISTS" In fact,
there is really no way to tell a person is from SYRIA OR LEBANON---
or even LIBYA ------unless he tells you.
Where do you guys encounter this strange phenomenon?

could you impart some examples? If a kid in the third grade
"admits" that his parents were born in syria-----does the
kid get punched out on the playground in your town?

I can supply for you some SYRIAN NAMES-----so you will
KNOW at whom to throw the punches

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

And yet we have seen very clearly on this thread, that you guys will not make the same statement about the dozens of non-Muslim countries in which the same situation occurs.

For all your talk of prejudice in the Islamic world, much of which is justified, it never quite covers up your own very obvious prejudice, does it?

Again - when will you complain about the fact that not a single country with a large Hindu population has avoided internecine violence?

Can you give us a list of countries all over the world where people are being harassed and murdered and their House of Worship burned down because of the religion they are. I guess Saigon feels it is prejudicial to think about and have sympathy for all the innocent Muslims who have been killed by other Muslims. I imagine Saigon doesn't realize how many Americans contribute to relief efforts to help Muslims in need while at the same time are not happy with what extremists are doing to others in the name of their religion. Now tell us, Saigon, how wonderful the Ahmadi Muslims are treated in Indonesia. I hope you don't mind me asking you a personal question. When did you convert to Islam? To tell you the truth, I always thought that with a screen name like you have that you were one of the boat people Israel picked up who stayed in Israel.

 

[Hossfly]

Indonesia anti-terror squad kills 7 militants | The Jakarta Post

The extremist, fantastic, wonderful Muslims who fight for Allah (not) , rob banks.
These aren't even good Muslims; just bastards out for cash.

The cops in Indonesia are mostly Muslims so good Muslims got rid of bad ones.

Is it possible for you to get in touch with this guy, Fred, and tell him that what goes on in someone's bedroom is really not his business and to stop being an extremist Muslim. With a huge population like Indonesia, there must be millions of homosexuals who just want to be left alone and would prefer not to be lashed. Tell him he doesn't have to follow the example of what happens to homosexuals in other Muslim countries.

Banda Aceh Deputy Mayor Pushes for Bylaw Criminalizing Same-Sex Relationships - The Jakarta Globe

Aceh is a tiny, self governing province in one small corner of Indonesia.
Islamic extremists have been a big problem there so many years and are a pain for everyone in the area as well as the national government.
Aceh is also where there is the biggest problems of drug abuse/cultivation and corruption.

Shariah Police Head in Aceh Tests Positive for Drug Use After Car Accident - The Jakarta Globe
TNT - The Naked Truth - 1 000 Indonesia cops on drugs
Aceh Police Deny Rape Claim Against Officers - The Jakarta Globe

and a load of other stuff.

These extremists, as with most in my humble opinion, are just corrupt bastards who use Islam as a route to power, not good Muslims.
Pretty much the rest of Indonesia wishes their power mad fools would curl up and die. I do for starters.

You can say whatever you want to say about Indonesia, Fred. I am sure there are Saudis who say that the Hindus are treated wonderfully in Saudi Arabia or Pakistani Sunnis will tale you how great the Shiites, Hindus and Christians have it in their country.. However, the fact remains that there have been many articles about what is going on in Indonesia with regard to those of different religions. Go ahead though, Fred, and keep on telling us how the majority religion in Indonesia is so tolerant toward towards whose beliefs are different.

Indonesia shrugs at rising religious violence: report

http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&Id=382370

Amnesty International: Indonesia must end religious discrimination

 

[Indofred]

You can say whatever you want to say about Indonesia, Fred. I am sure there are Saudis who say that the Hindus are treated wonderfully in Saudi Arabia or Pakistani Sunnis will tale you how great the Shiites, Hindus and Christians have it in their country.. However, the fact remains that there have been many articles about what is going on in Indonesia with regard to those of different religions. Go ahead though, Fred, and keep on telling us how the majority religion in Indonesia is so tolerant toward towards whose beliefs are different.

Indonesia shrugs at rising religious violence: report

Indonesia: Shia Villagers Told They Must Convert if They Wish to Return Home

Amnesty International: Indonesia must end religious discrimination

I don't claim there aren't problems, in fact I freely agree there are.
However, I do claim the vast majority of Muslims here do not support the stupidity of the few.
I also claim, many of the stupid ones aren't doing this for religious reasons, more corruption.
This has been proven many times when a bribe to the right extremist group ends the 'religious' objections.
Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't true religious fanatics, there are.
Every country has its mindless idiots, including Indonesia.

My mates are a mixed group from a variety of religions so I tend to get a rounded view of actual life and conditions here, not have to google it in the hope of trying to guess at the situation.
By the way, it's nothing to do with being tolerant, most of us are mates, regardless of religion. We don't ask what religion someone is before we decide to talk to each other, we find out eventually in the course of conversation, not because we bother asking.

You are labouring under a misconception.

 

[irosie91]

wrong indofred------I do not get my information over tea-----in the home of some
polite hospitable muslim happy to tell you what you want to hear (I assure you---
I have been in THAT position many many times) - I get my information directly
from the victims ------in fact sometimes in a situation of legal confidentiality---but
usually not. ----usually just informally----bottom line is christians---and also hindus
do not have a good prognosis in Indonesia, or Kenya , or Pakistan, etc etc etc

 

[Hossfly]

You can say whatever you want to say about Indonesia, Fred. I am sure there are Saudis who say that the Hindus are treated wonderfully in Saudi Arabia or Pakistani Sunnis will tale you how great the Shiites, Hindus and Christians have it in their country.. However, the fact remains that there have been many articles about what is going on in Indonesia with regard to those of different religions. Go ahead though, Fred, and keep on telling us how the majority religion in Indonesia is so tolerant toward towards whose beliefs are different.

Indonesia shrugs at rising religious violence: report

Indonesia: Shia Villagers Told They Must Convert if They Wish to Return Home

Amnesty International: Indonesia must end religious discrimination

I don't claim there aren't problems, in fact I freely agree there are.
However, I do claim the vast majority of Muslims here do not support the stupidity of the few.
I also claim, many of the stupid ones aren't doing this for religious reasons, more corruption.
This has been proven many times when a bribe to the right extremist group ends the 'religious' objections.
Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't true religious fanatics, there are.
Every country has its mindless idiots, including Indonesia.

My mates are a mixed group from a variety of religions so I tend to get a rounded view of actual life and conditions here, not have to google it in the hope of trying to guess at the situation.
By the way, it's nothing to do with being tolerant, most of us are mates, regardless of religion. We don't ask what religion someone is before we decide to talk to each other, we find out eventually in the course of conversation, not because we bother asking.

You are labouring under a misconception.

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

The Wahhabi War On Indonesia's Shiites - Analysis Eurasia Review

Violating the Sharia Law, 16 People Flogged in Aceh | Economy & Business | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

 

[Saigon]

wrong indofred------I do not get my information over tea-----in the home of some
polite hospitable muslim happy to tell you what you want to hear (I assure you---
I have been in THAT position many many times) - I get my information directly
from the victims ------in fact sometimes in a situation of legal confidentiality---but
usually not. ----usually just informally----bottom line is christians---and also hindus
do not have a good prognosis in Indonesia, or Kenya , or Pakistan, etc etc etc

I don't know how many times I have seen you claim that you have better information than residents of a country because you have never been there, but it was silly the first time, and is not getting any better.

Do you honestly think a person who has never been to America knows it better than you do?

Your view of the Muslim world is massively, wildly skewed, as you will discover should you ever visit a Muslim country. Talking to emigrants is undoubtedly interesting and informative, but I imagine it also gives a very twisted impression of their homelands. What impression would I get of America if I only chose to talk to Americans who had chosen to live in Europe?

 

[Saigon]

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

Because the internet is reliable, trustworthy and without bias. It is objective.

There is no need to talk to people to understand them.

Really, Hoss, you can not believe that reading blogs is a better insight into a country than living there. You simply cannot.

 

[Hossfly]

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

Because the internet is reliable, trustworthy and without bias. It is objective.

There is no need to talk to people to understand them.

Really, Hoss, you can not believe that reading blogs is a better insight into a country than living there. You simply cannot.

What blogs are we talking about here?

 

[Indofred]

wrong indofred------I do not get my information over tea-----in the home of some
polite hospitable muslim happy to tell you what you want to hear (I assure you---
I have been in THAT position many many times) - I get my information directly
from the victims ------in fact sometimes in a situation of legal confidentiality---but
usually not. ----usually just informally----bottom line is christians---and also hindus
do not have a good prognosis in Indonesia, or Kenya , or Pakistan, etc etc etc

Nice claim - prove it and explain why the government backed religious oppression in Israel or the mass murders by the American government are any better than the minority backed version in Indonesia.
Before you can knock one, you have to admit your own problems.

If you have a moment longer, perhaps you can explain how religious freedom is viewed in America.

 

[Saigon]

What blogs are we talking about here?

There is no blog on earth that can give you as powerful an insight into Lebanon as spending a day in Beirut.

You mentioned the other day that you have travelled a lot, so I think you know what I am talking about.

I am not suggesting that people stop reading blogs, I am saying that people need to be realistic about the extent of their knowledge and information. It is very, very hard to read a couple of stories online and know how much is fact and how much is the author's own distorted views.