Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

Is there a "Christian issue" in Italy?

Could very well be an issue but I thought you said there was none in Indonesia. They used to co-exist but lately the militant Islamists in Indonesia are terrorizing all other religions, even other Muslim sects. The government is getting concerned.

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

It's probably worth going to Indonesia and spending a bit of time there before mouthing off about what used to happen there and what is happening now. It's very difficult to appreciate the sheer enormity and diversity of the country from a distance. Keep in mind - it is the most populous Islamic country, with 238 million people and a thousand islands. Each island is different, and some very different.

It is without question one of the most moderate Islamic countries, and the government keeps a close watch on extremists, as it should.

Some things to keep in mind - Indonesia has five state religions, all with equal rights.

Most experts agree that Islamic extremism is well down on what it was 10-15 years ago, as the government has infiltrated and broken up groups who supported the Bali bombings. Sure there are still incidents and issues on some islands - Ambon being one - but there are also nutcases in any country of 200 million people.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

It's probably worth going to Indonesia and spending a bit of time there before mouthing off about what used to happen there and what is happening now. It's very difficult to appreciate the sheer enormity and diversity of the country from a distance. Keep in mind - it is the most populous Islamic country, with 238 million people and a thousand islands. Each island is different, and some very different.

It is without question one of the most moderate Islamic countries, and the government keeps a close watch on extremists, as it should.

Some things to keep in mind - Indonesia has five state religions, all with equal rights.

Most experts agree that Islamic extremism is well down on what it was 10-15 years ago, as the government has infiltrated and broken up groups who supported the Bali bombings. Sure there are still incidents and issues on some islands - Ambon being one - but there are also nutcases in any country of 200 million people.

Listen you impertinent little prig, I've spent the past 50 years traveling around the world and I'm "up" on current events. You know, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't be half as smart as others think you are. Now go correct some of Rocco's comments.

 

[Saigon]

Hoss -

If you were up on current events in Indonesia, you would know that there is far less concern about Islamic extremism than there was 20 years ago, when groups like Islamic Jihad had genuine influence in the country. Events like the Islamic Democracy Forum highlight the extent to which Indonesia is now committed to becoming a kind of beacon for Islamic moderation.

I don't see anything "impertinent" in the fact that I know Indonesia rather well. If other posters know the country better than I do, then all power to them. I don't know why anyone would get bent out of shape about knowing or not knowing a particular part of the world.


btw, It is interesting on these threads that not only are some posters unwilling to condemn violence committed by Hindu or Buddhist groups, but often also seem to be unaware that it occurs.

Is it really possible to condemn Islamic violence against Hindu targets - but not condemn the apparently more widespread Hindu violence against Islamic targets - without blatant hyocrisy?

 

[Hossfly]

Hoss -

If you were up on current events in Indonesia, you would know that there is far less concern about Islamic extremism than there was 20 years ago, when groups like Islamic Jihad had genuine influence in the country. Events like the Islamic Democracy Forum highlight the extent to which Indonesia is now committed to becoming a kind of beacon for Islamic moderation.

I don't see anything "impertinent" in the fact that I know Indonesia rather well. If other posters know the country better than I do, then all power to them. I don't know why anyone would get bent out of shape about knowing or not knowing a particular part of the world.


btw, It is interesting on these threads that not only are some posters unwilling to condemn violence committed by Hindu or Buddhist groups, but often also seem to be unaware that it occurs.

Is it really possible to condemn Islamic violence against Hindu targets - but not condemn the apparently more widespread Hindu violence against Islamic targets - without blatant hyocrisy?

The Hindu and Buddhist violence against Muslims has been discussed on threads recently but if it doesn't concern Israel and the precious little pet Palestinians, the posts are scrubbed or the thread moved. But the general consensus is that the Muslims are getting their just rewards as payback.

 

[Saigon]

But the general consensus is that the Muslims are getting their just rewards as payback.

It's strange world in which suppoters of Israel back violence against completely innocent civilians as "payback".

 

[Hossfly]

But the general consensus is that the Muslims are getting their just rewards as payback.

It's strange world in which suppoters of Israel back violence against completely innocent civilians as "payback".

That's the way the mop flops I suppose.

 

[Unkotare]

Hossfly -

It's probably worth going to Indonesia and spending a bit of time there before mouthing off about what used to happen there and what is happening now. It's very difficult to appreciate the sheer enormity and diversity of the country from a distance. .

Here we go... P.D. at it again~

 

[Indofred]

Hossfly -

It's probably worth going to Indonesia and spending a bit of time there before mouthing off about what used to happen there and what is happening now. It's very difficult to appreciate the sheer enormity and diversity of the country from a distance. Keep in mind - it is the most populous Islamic country, with 238 million people and a thousand islands. Each island is different, and some very different.

It is without question one of the most moderate Islamic countries, and the government keeps a close watch on extremists, as it should.

Some things to keep in mind - Indonesia has five state religions, all with equal rights.

Most experts agree that Islamic extremism is well down on what it was 10-15 years ago, as the government has infiltrated and broken up groups who supported the Bali bombings. Sure there are still incidents and issues on some islands - Ambon being one - but there are also nutcases in any country of 200 million people.

I've been here for six years so I have a fair idea of the ropes.
There are Islamic extremists in Indonesia but more are getting killed every day. We got seven of the bastards this week and it looks like another three today.
For the Muslim haters who try to tell us, all Muslims are extremists; how do you explain the fact, Muslim policemen are killing Muslim extremists?

Apart from that, there are problems here but the mostly Muslim government is trying to get rid of the trouble makers.
I wish them success in getting purging this wonderful country of those who would destroy it.

 

[Saigon]

Indofred-

I'd actually never realised before that you are in Indonesia! It is a wonderful country, to my mind perhaps the best place in the world to travel. Are you in Jakarta?

I particularly like Flores - there are few more beautiful places on earth.

 

[irosie91]

Hossfly -


Some things to keep in mind - Indonesia has five state religions, all with equal rights.

Most experts agree that Islamic extremism is well down on what it was 10-15 years ago, as the government has infiltrated and broken up groups who supported the Bali bombings. Sure there are still incidents and issues on some islands - Ambon being one - but there are also nutcases in any country of 200 million people.

I've been here for six years so I have a fair idea of the ropes.
There are Islamic extremists in Indonesia but more are getting killed every day. We got seven of the bastards this week and it looks like another three today.
For the Muslim haters who try to tell us, all Muslims are extremists; how do you explain the fact, Muslim policemen are killing Muslim extremists?

Apart from that, there are problems here but the mostly Muslim government is trying to get rid of the trouble makers.
I wish them success in getting purging this wonderful country of those who would destroy it.

How delightful !!!!!!!!

*********
********* "INDONESIA HAS FIVE STATE RELIGIONS ALL WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!! ***********

for those unfamiliar with the filth of shariah----the system is the MOST
"JUST" IN ALL THE WORLD-----some religions other than islam are
permitted to exist-----under the supervision of the islamic overlords
and with either actual or anytime iimposable gross oppression. The
"permitted to exist" groups----(lucky people that they are) ---are
premitted to exist so long was they do not give up recognizging islam
and muslims as THE SUPERIOR ONES. ---just how much oppression,
rape and pillage, enslavement and exaction of tribute to which they are
subjected varies over time and place. Rebeillion against the glorious
position of being permitted to exist albeit as an inferior is a captal crime---
which is the basis for the LEGAL ARMENIAN GENOCIDE---and the LEGAL
BIAFRAN GENOCIDE, and the LEGAL GENOCIDES IN UGANDA

In all shariah adherent societies----pogroms, lynchings and genocides
of the "permitted to exist" groups---somehow 'happen" whenever
there is a bit of ISLAMIC REVIVALISM. Thousands of LEGALLY
ENSLAVED christian children are still in sudan-----based on the beauty
of the situation described above
*********

 

[irosie91]

for the record-----in shariah law and in the ideology that indofred admires----
those people of the religions "PERMITTED TO EXIST"---are expected to
be eternally grateful for the opportunity to breathe----for whatever time
they are permitted to do so

 

[Saigon]

********* "INDONESIA HAS FIVE STATE RELIGIONS ALL WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!! ***********

Yes. that is right. That is something you should celebrate, and yet oddly enough you do not.

This has nothing to do with Armenia nor Uganda.

 

[irosie91]

********* "INDONESIA HAS FIVE STATE RELIGIONS ALL WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!! ***********

Yes. that is right. That is something you should celebrate, and yet oddly enough you do not.

This has nothing to do with Armenia nor Uganda.

I understand the system----my own husband was born in a very classical shariah
adherent country. I agree that islam should be declared a LEGAL religion----
and muslims ruled under the same laws of dhimmia which his community endured
for more than 1000 years in all lands in which muslims are a minority. It has
everything to do with armenia, uganda and the legal enslavement of
christian orphans in sudan If you would like to be a dhimmi----I would be
happy to discuss the ramifications thereof with you-----do not be afraid---you
can celebrate later

 

[Indofred]

for the record-----in shariah law and in the ideology that indofred admires

Please quote where I state that or admit you lied.

 

[Saigon]

iRose -

Yemen does not have Pancasila. In fact, Indonesia is the only country in the world that does have it.

Forget Sharia for a moment, and let's focus on Indonesia.

 

[Indofred]

Indofred-

I'd actually never realised before that you are in Indonesia! It is a wonderful country, to my mind perhaps the best place in the world to travel. Are you in Jakarta?

I particularly like Flores - there are few more beautiful places on earth.

I lived in a small town in Central Java for a few years, moved to a city called, Purwokerto, then to Tangerang, just outside Jakarta.
I've been into the city twice this week, once to see where a BBC program was made and again today, this time with my wife and kid.
We went to seaworld in Ancol - fantastic for the kids.

Ok, I admit it, I enjoyed most of it as well.

 

[Indofred]

********* "INDONESIA HAS FIVE STATE RELIGIONS ALL WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!! ***********

Yes. that is right. That is something you should celebrate, and yet oddly enough you do not.

This has nothing to do with Armenia nor Uganda.

I do not celebrate it.
Five is a start but excludes are too many people. Things are changing rapidly but some of the more extreme idiots are still trying to cause trouble.

Their favourite trick is to delay the issue of a permit to a church then close it because it doesn't have a permit.
Totally wrong and I stand with the Christians on this issue, as so many other Muslims do.

What the extremists don't understand is, they do far more harm to Islam than any of the more extreme Zionists can ever do.
This makes the extremist Muslims more our enemy than anyone else's.

 

[Saigon]

Indofred -

Interesting. I don't know Purwokerto, but I see it is not so far from Jogja, and also from the south coast, that I used to know quite well. I spent a lot of time in Pangandaran many years back, and travelled from there along the coast through Cilacap to Jogja and Surabaya etc. I was in Jogja again in November last year.

 

[irosie91]

for the record-----in shariah law and in the ideology that indofred admires

Please quote where I state that or admit you lied.

You stated that the concept of "LEGAL RELIGIONS" vs
"illegal" religions should be "CELEBRATED"
As you know in SHARIAH LAW-----the "legal religions" are
generally those which are monotheistic----but the laws can
be adapted for convenience of the islamic overlords in their
exaction of tribute----to include any groups that have
enough money and economic power to pay them off.
Your request for a word by word quote is denied-----it is the
request of a dissembler------you were aware of the filth
which you advocated when you advised the celebration of
FILTH