Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

Your post is quite a good example of what we have been discussing.

Your post a link from a Christian website, apparently without having checked the facts, and apparently without referencing more objective sources, and yet presented as fact.

Indofred is in a better position than any of us to know whether the story is true or not, but in all likelihood you will ignore his answer as being biased or not backed up with facts - demands you would never place upon your online sources.

In other words, you assume an anonymous blog is reliable because it conforms to your political views; and assume Indofred and I are unreliable because we do not conform to your political views. Do you see how limiting that is for you?

As for your question, I don't see anyone here suggesting Indonesia is a paragon of virtue in terms of religious tolerance. Possibly some churches have been forced to close. However, the Pancasila does ensure Christianity is respected, and my feeling is that Indonesia has a better record in this regard than countries you will never criticise - such as India, Burma, Sri Lanka or Fiji.

You claim to be a globe hopping journalist so link us to some of your published articles so we may see if you are in the running for a Pulitzer this year.
BTW, when something was reported in the past, does the passing of time make it invalid?

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic, but I'd be delighted to post links to some of my stories, were it not for the presence of a couple of stalking psychopaths here that makes that rather inadvisable.

However, I did post one of my shoter stories (on Burundi) in the Africa section a while ago, as I'd written versions of it in Finnish and English, but only published the Finnish one. I just "upped" it for you.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic, but I'd be delighted to post links to some of my stories, were it not for the presence of a couple of stalking psychopaths here that makes that rather inadvisable.

However, I did post one of my shoter stories (on Burundi) in the Africa section a while ago, as I'd written versions of it in Finnish and English, but only published the Finnish one. I just "upped" it for you.

You can post a thousand stories if you want. I think the bottom line is that the people in the organizations who live in the area and see what is going on are more reliable than anything you can say.

 

[irosie91]

what does "christianity is respected" mean?

 

[Hossfly]

what does "christianity is respected" mean?

It means by closing Christian churches, a suicide bomber wont take out a whole congregation one Sunday morning. Christians should be thankful!

 

[Unkotare]

Hossfly -

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic, but I'd be delighted to post links to some of my stories, were it not for the presence of a couple of stalking psychopaths here that makes that rather inadvisable. .

LOL @ the Finnish fraud!

 

[irosie91]

what does "christianity is respected" mean?

It means by closing Christian churches, a suicide bomber wont take out a whole congregation one Sunday morning. Christians should be thankful!

Hoss I read the koran when I was young-----naive-----and with no
preconceived notions about islam-----about 19. (LONG AGO)
All I knew then is that muslims do not
eat ham and---friday is their saturday-- (or sunday---depending on personal
tastes) I know the basis of that "respect"------There was this guy who
wanted people to like his religion----so he said "I am willing to say
moses was a "prophet" and "jesus" was a prophet ----and since I 'respect'
your "prophets" you have to 'respect me' as THE PROPHET.
I was young----barely out of childhood----it reminded me of playground
deals "lets play poker----five card ---deuces, aces and one-eyed
jacks are ALL wild------or rummy---seven card----same rules"


time passed------I learned more-----more time passed----now the
whole world is learning. I am really amused when some idiot
mentions the "legal" religions in islamic countries----or use that
word "respect" (you might have noticed that I allude to the
"respect" DEAL quite a bit)

 

[Indofred]

what does "christianity is respected" mean?

It should mean, exactly what it says but some will always be so right, they feel they must force everyone else to believe as they do.

This is clearly stupid.

Sadly, all groups have haters as your posts show.

Doesn't it strike you as strange that you hate in exactly the same way as the Muslim extremists you hate so much?

 

[Indofred]

What blogs are we talking about here?

There is no blog on earth that can give you as powerful an insight into Lebanon as spending a day in Beirut.

You mentioned the other day that you have travelled a lot, so I think you know what I am talking about.

I am not suggesting that people stop reading blogs, I am saying that people need to be realistic about the extent of their knowledge and information. It is very, very hard to read a couple of stories online and know how much is fact and how much is the author's own distorted views.

Why Saigon, I know that Muslims are not allowed to say anything derogatory about other Muslims, but have you given any thought to what different religious groups in the particular areas have to say about what is going on with regard to those of their particular religion? Can you pull up something for us that shows us that the government in Indonesia is telling its Sunni Muslim citizens to be tolerant to others and respect that people do have different beliefs from theirs. Is this showing tolerance to Christians in Indonesia?

Indonesia: Over 100 Churches Closed in 3 Years

Posters carry on arguing Indonesia is less than perfect but no one disagrees so it's a bit pointless.
To correct one point - Muslims are allowed to speak out against other Muslims so why bother eith the lie?
I know many that are far less tgan polite when talking about the evil dogs we call terrorists.
SBY has just been offered an award for promoting religious freedom. He probably deserves it but I'm unsure Indonesia as a whole does.

 

[irosie91]

Indofred lied-----in fact ---muslims are enjoined to NEVER
speak against a muslim ----to a non muslim -----in shariah
law-----the IN COURT testimony of a non muslim has no value
at all------and is ILLEGAL if it defies the word of a muslim.

In general----if a non muslim insults or maligns a muslim---
the act is considered a CAPITAL CRIME

In normal daily life----it is absolutely legal for a muslim to
spit in the face of a non muslim and a capital crime if the
non muslim RECIPROCATES.

In practical life----non muslims living in such filth----simply
STAY AWAY from muslims. My husband who was born in a
shariah cesspit-------will----in the USA today----cross the street
rather than walk near a mosque-----it is something like a natural
reflex for him-------like avoiding a pile of dog feces in the gutter.

He describes the same phenomenon in his childhood----
the need to just STAY CLEAR of ------them (he also describes
the fact that the sound of women screaming as their husbands'
beat them------horrified him---interestingly enough----I got the
same story from friends who grew up in Bombay--now mumbai--
regarding the screaming muslim women)

 

[Hossfly]

There is no blog on earth that can give you as powerful an insight into Lebanon as spending a day in Beirut.

You mentioned the other day that you have travelled a lot, so I think you know what I am talking about.

I am not suggesting that people stop reading blogs, I am saying that people need to be realistic about the extent of their knowledge and information. It is very, very hard to read a couple of stories online and know how much is fact and how much is the author's own distorted views.

Why Saigon, I know that Muslims are not allowed to say anything derogatory about other Muslims, but have you given any thought to what different religious groups in the particular areas have to say about what is going on with regard to those of their particular religion? Can you pull up something for us that shows us that the government in Indonesia is telling its Sunni Muslim citizens to be tolerant to others and respect that people do have different beliefs from theirs. Is this showing tolerance to Christians in Indonesia?

Indonesia: Over 100 Churches Closed in 3 Years

Posters carry on arguing Indonesia is less than perfect but no one disagrees so it's a bit pointless.
To correct one point - Muslims are allowed to speak out against other Muslims so why bother eith the lie?
I know many that are far less tgan polite when talking about the evil dogs we call terrorists.
SBY has just been offered an award for promoting religious freedom. He probably deserves it but I'm unsure Indonesia as a whole does.

So why don't the Muslims speak out against all the atrocities which are caused by their fellow Muslims? You find find people asking this on the Internet in many different situations. However, Fred, you can deny to us how non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects other than the Sunnis are treated badly as much as you want if it makes you feel good. Tell an Ahmadi or Shiite how wonderful he has it in all of Indonesia. Tell the Christians that they can freely build churches and the Muslims will be all for it

 

[irosie91]

Why Saigon, I know that Muslims are not allowed to say anything derogatory about other Muslims, but have you given any thought to what different religious groups in the particular areas have to say about what is going on with regard to those of their particular religion? Can you pull up something for us that shows us that the government in Indonesia is telling its Sunni Muslim citizens to be tolerant to others and respect that people do have different beliefs from theirs. Is this showing tolerance to Christians in Indonesia?

Indonesia: Over 100 Churches Closed in 3 Years

Posters carry on arguing Indonesia is less than perfect but no one disagrees so it's a bit pointless.
To correct one point - Muslims are allowed to speak out against other Muslims so why bother eith the lie?
I know many that are far less tgan polite when talking about the evil dogs we call terrorists.
SBY has just been offered an award for promoting religious freedom. He probably deserves it but I'm unsure Indonesia as a whole does.

So why don't the Muslims speak out against all the atrocities which are caused by their fellow Muslims? You find find people asking this on the Internet in many different situations. However, Fred, you can deny to us how non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects other than the Sunnis are treated badly as much as you want if it makes you

feel good. Tell an Ahmadi or Shiite how wonderful he has it in all of Indonesia. Tell the Christians that they can freely build churches and the Muslims will be all for it

Let me clarify the "MUSLIMS CANNOT SPEAK AGAINST MUSLIMS" issue---
of course for a MUSLIM AUDIENCE---muslims speak against other muslims---
in fact quite emphatically and with very poetic language----it is for a non-
muslim audience that muslims do not critisize muslims or anything about
islam ----or islamic society ----I have known muslims who even
EMPHATICALLY deny that there is a rift between sunnis and shiiites----and---
of course the only possible defect an islamic society can possibly harbor is
NOT ENOUGH SHARIAH. I have been told that islamic medical schools
teach their students that "mental illness" is a manifestation of
"KUFR" <<< that means ---not enough islam. denial of islam etc .
Be not amazed----in times past mental illness in Russia was attributed to
a tendency in the afflicted patient to <gasp> CAPITALISM. a synonym
for PSYCHOTIC was "capitalist"

 

[Indofred]

Indofred lied-----in fact ---muslims are enjoined to NEVER
speak against a muslim ----to a non muslim -----in shariah
law-----the IN COURT testimony of a non muslim has no value
at all------and is ILLEGAL if it defies the word of a muslim.

In general----if a non muslim insults or maligns a muslim---
the act is considered a CAPITAL CRIME

In normal daily life----it is absolutely legal for a muslim to
spit in the face of a non muslim and a capital crime if the
non muslim RECIPROCATES.

In practical life----non muslims living in such filth----simply
STAY AWAY from muslims. My husband who was born in a
shariah cesspit-------will----in the USA today----cross the street
rather than walk near a mosque-----it is something like a natural
reflex for him-------like avoiding a pile of dog feces in the gutter.

He describes the same phenomenon in his childhood----
the need to just STAY CLEAR of ------them (he also describes
the fact that the sound of women screaming as their husbands'
beat them------horrified him---interestingly enough----I got the
same story from friends who grew up in Bombay--now mumbai--
regarding the screaming muslim women)

And you say Islam is a religion of hate but spew out such hate yourself.

Just as a note, there was a wife beater in my old village.
The wife left and no one would have anything to do with him
Even local shops refused to serve him so he had to travel to the next town to shop.
To get his next ID card, he had to promise never to hit her again or he would have been refused it, thus no long allowed to live there.

I can't comment on other countries like mostly Hindu India (Where rape is a very common crime) but I know it's unacceptable here.

Oddly enough, your previous comments about stoning gays is just as much a lie.
In this country, gays are just left alone. The barbers in my old town were all gay but everyone went to them and just didn't care either way about their sexuality.
No beatings, no stoning but they were good barbers so they did a lot of trade.
I did stop going to one because he kept trying to chat me up but that's because I'm not gay and he wouldn't stop, not because I hate him for his sexuality.
The next barber was also openly gay.

Big deal.

 

[irosie91]

Indofred lied-----in fact ---muslims are enjoined to NEVER
speak against a muslim ----to a non muslim -----in shariah
law-----the IN COURT testimony of a non muslim has no value
at all------and is ILLEGAL if it defies the word of a muslim.

In general----if a non muslim insults or maligns a muslim---
the act is considered a CAPITAL CRIME

In normal daily life----it is absolutely legal for a muslim to
spit in the face of a non muslim and a capital crime if the
non muslim RECIPROCATES.

In practical life----non muslims living in such filth----simply
STAY AWAY from muslims. My husband who was born in a
shariah cesspit-------will----in the USA today----cross the street
rather than walk near a mosque-----it is something like a natural
reflex for him-------like avoiding a pile of dog feces in the gutter.

He describes the same phenomenon in his childhood----
the need to just STAY CLEAR of ------them (he also describes
the fact that the sound of women screaming as their husbands'
beat them------horrified him---interestingly enough----I got the
same story from friends who grew up in Bombay--now mumbai--
regarding the screaming muslim women)

And you say Islam is a religion of hate but spew out such hate yourself.

Just as a note, there was a wife beater in my old village.
The wife left and no one would have anything to do with him
Even local shops refused to serve him so he had to travel to the next town to shop.
To get his next ID card, he had to promise never to hit her again or he would have been refused it, thus no long allowed to live there.

I can't comment on other countries like mostly Hindu India (Where rape is a very common crime) but I know it's unacceptable here.

Oddly enough, your previous comments about stoning gays is just as much a lie.
In this country, gays are just left alone. The barbers in my old town were all gay but everyone went to them and just didn't care either way about their sexuality.
No beatings, no stoning but they were good barbers so they did a lot of trade.
I did stop going to one because he kept trying to chat me up but that's because I'm not gay and he wouldn't stop, not because I hate him for his sexuality.
The next barber was also openly gay.

Big deal.

indo------what country? I was referring to those countries that adhere to shariah law
like not turkey not the Iran of 1960 for that matter ---not egypt

as to individual adherence to islamic "IDEALS"-----in some places that is an
INDIVIDUAL choice. One of the islamic ideals is-----that muslims never malign
either a muslim or anything islamic ----in the presence of a non muslim-------like it or
not-----that is how it is. Rape is common in India? The only stat anyone has
about RAPE RATES is that which the countries themselves report -----there is
no way of knoing how common is rape in islamic societies since being RAPED
devastates not only a girl but her whole family-------why would a girl report it?
In 1971 when the west pakistani army was busy raping both hindus and muslims in
east pakistan------girls were being deserted by their families ------and comitting suicide
You actually expect a girl there to report---BTW ----I was raped-----but I did not
get pregnant------I just thought you would like to know. Your anecdote from
city X in country Y is meaningless

 

[Indofred]

More hate with unprovable claims to back them up.
Your post was about Muslims in general and spewed out hate for all Muslims, not just some.
You did mention shariah in your last post but all previous posts have just been blind hate.

Pointless as you'll never see past your version of the world to what is really out there.
Yes, there are Muslims who are total bastards but the same applied to every other group on the planet.
We have IDF soldiers raping children, American troops gang raping Iraqi girls and I'm sure plenty more from other countries.
Why do you have to make it sound as if only Muslims so this when it's a problem shared by so many?

Hate blinds you to truth so you hate and encourage further hate. That just leads to more hurt and misery.

Enjoy your terrible version of the world but don't try to pass your hate on when a message of peace and love will probably help so much more.

 

[Hossfly]

More hate with unprovable claims to back them up.
Your post was about Muslims in general and spewed out hate for all Muslims, not just some.
You did mention shariah in your last post but all previous posts have just been blind hate.

Pointless as you'll never see past your version of the world to what is really out there.
Yes, there are Muslims who are total bastards but the same applied to every other group on the planet.
We have IDF soldiers raping children, American troops gang raping Iraqi girls and I'm sure plenty more from other countries.
Why do you have to make it sound as if only Muslims so this when it's a problem shared by so many?

Hate blinds you to truth so you hate and encourage further hate. That just leads to more hurt and misery.

Enjoy your terrible version of the world but don't try to pass your hate on when a message of peace and love will probably help so much more.

Everyone realizes that rape is a problem around the world, Fred, but if you would research it, your brethren are raping their way across Europe. Not only that, but in some Muslims countries young Christian and Hindu girls are being kidnapped, raped, and then forced into Islam. You can research that also. Meanwhile, can you give us many cases of the IDF raping children? As far as I know, there was an incident a while back of them sleeping with someone who was young and they thought she was older, but you make it sound like this is a regular habit of the IDF. Can you back this up for us from a legitimate source? I am sure you will never find anything like what the Muslims did in Bangladesh.
Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[irosie91]

More hate with unprovable claims to back them up.
Your post was about Muslims in general and spewed out hate for all Muslims, not just some.
You did mention shariah in your last post but all previous posts have just been blind hate.

Pointless as you'll never see past your version of the world to what is really out there.
Yes, there are Muslims who are total bastards but the same applied to every other group on the planet.
We have IDF soldiers raping children, American troops gang raping Iraqi girls and I'm sure plenty more from other countries.
Why do you have to make it sound as if only Muslims so this when it's a problem shared by so many?

Hate blinds you to truth so you hate and encourage further hate. That just leads to more hurt and misery.

Enjoy your terrible version of the world but don't try to pass your hate on when a message of peace and love will probably help so much more.

to whom are you addressing this post INDO?-----if it is to me---
I got bad news for you-----just about the only aspects of "muslim" I
ever discuss is SHARIAH LAW and a bit about
aspects of THEIR ideology which I learned from THEM.

From my husband----and his friends and family I get
shariah law and its impact on non muslims---mostly jews and from
muslims I did learn that they either believe or like feel obligated
to declare that shariah law is the best law ever imparted to man---but
that information comes only from those who seem to WANT to discuss it.

Lots of muslims do like to discuss the "BEAUTY OF ISLAM" without being
encouraged to do so


I have never attirbuted specific
personality traits to muslims as a group----I have know too many muslims
of very different backgrounds and personalities to come close to getting
into GENERALIZATIONS about their characters

If you are addressing me----your post is nonsense-----wishful thinking
on your part ---an attempt to feed a sense of "oppression"----that very
important lesson of "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO DESTROY ISLAAAAM"

I have been a jew all my life and grew up so closely with christians that
I even attended sunday school-----here is an interesting bit of news for
you--------neither jews nor christians get taught that people are
OUT TO DESTROY CHRISTIANITY ----or DESTROY JUDAISM---I never
heard a hindu say he must FIGHT FOR HINDUISM ----I did know
a hindu in college who was a bit upset that one his own had converted
to christianity------but that is about it.

Now ----time for you to continue lying and tell me you never came
across the concept of "FIGHT THE ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAAM"
in all your vast experience Please note----such an expresson is not
a character description----it is an early childhood lesson----in fact I even
heard it in a mosque---with LOTS AND LOTS OF LITTLE BOYS PRESENT

 

[Saigon]

You can post a thousand stories if you want. I think the bottom line is that the people in the organizations who live in the area and see what is going on are more reliable than anything you can say.

Ah, so that is why you ignore people who live in the area.

Got it.

Why not be honest about it - you will back anything that is consistent with your world view regardless of the source, and dismiss anything which is not consistent with your world view, regardless of the source.

 

[Saigon]

Indofred lied-----in fact ---muslims are enjoined to NEVER
speak against a muslim ----to a non muslim -----in shariah
law-----the IN COURT testimony of a non muslim has no value
at all------and is ILLEGAL if it defies the word of a muslim.

And Catholics never drink, swear, nor fornicate outside of marriage, so if you saw a Catholic doing any of those things, it must have actually been someone else who looked like the person you know.

Again, Rosie, your perspective of Islam is twisted and pervserse. It always sounds to me like you are talking about the world in 1855 rather than 2013.

 

[Saigon]

Doesn't it strike you as strange that you hate in exactly the same way as the Muslim extremists you hate so much?

I have thought the same on so many threads. The posters here MUST realise that they represent the same kind of intolerant racism that they condemn....surely?

We've seen on this thread already that neither Rosie nor Hoss will say a word against Hindu
violence - so we know they issue is not with violence, but only with Islam.