Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[Indofred]

for the record-----in shariah law and in the ideology that indofred admires

Please quote where I state that or admit you lied.

You stated that the concept of "LEGAL RELIGIONS" vs
"illegal" religions should be "CELEBRATED"
As you know in SHARIAH LAW-----the "legal religions" are
generally those which are monotheistic----but the laws can
be adapted for convenience of the islamic overlords in their
exaction of tribute----to include any groups that have
enough money and economic power to pay them off.
Your request for a word by word quote is denied-----it is the
request of a dissembler------you were aware of the filth
which you advocated when you advised the celebration of
FILTH

I see you can't quote me so you're flustering in some weak attempt to say I did it.

Quote me or apologise for your lie.

EDIT - I just read the above again. Please show where I said that or admit you lied again. In fact, I said I DO NOT celebrate it and it's only a couple of posts up so it's easy to see.

YOU LIED

 

[Indofred]

Indofred -

Interesting. I don't know Purwokerto, but I see it is not so far from Jogja, and also from the south coast, that I used to know quite well. I spent a lot of time in Pangandaran many years back, and travelled from there along the coast through Cilacap to Jogja and Surabaya etc. I was in Jogja again in November last year.

I know big chunks of Central Java pretty well as I used to hang around with my little Honda tiger.
Hardly the best bike iin the world but really handy for medium range jaunts around the area. My visa used to be processed in Semarang so I wandered up there twice a year.
At the time, the only place I could get electronic toys was Jogja so I went down there at least once a month.
I know bits of Jakarta but not all that much. As I get time, I'll update my photo thread and you'll see what I've been up to.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-global-topics/236791-page-47-and-a-strange-fruit.html

Just been way too busy for a few weeks and I have a pile to do for the next two so won't get much free time.

 

[irosie91]

777777777777

please quote where i state that or admit you lied.

you stated that the concept of "legal religions" vs
"illegal" religions should be "celebrated"
as you know in shariah law-----the "legal religions" are
generally those which are monotheistic----but the laws can
be adapted for convenience of the islamic overlords in their
exaction of tribute----to include any groups that have
enough money and economic power to pay them off.
Your request for a word by word quote is denied-----it is the
request of a dissembler------you were aware of the filth
which you advocated when you advised the celebration of
filth

i see you can't quote me so you're flustering in some weak attempt to say i did it.

Quote me or apologise for your lie.

wrong again------deny your admiration for the shariah inspired
concept of "legal religions" and the instrumentation of that
disgusting filth in indonesia --------or accept the fact that you
promote the kind of filth that has been the basis for gross genocides--
hisorically,,, in the hundreds of millions


edit - i just read the above again. Please show where i said that or admit you lied again. In fact, i said i do not celebrate it and it's only a couple of posts up so it's easy to see.

You lied

oh then it was someone else who admired the stench of shariah
as imposed in Indonesia-------maybe saigon???? whoever it was
that admired that filth------is filth---- it it was not INDOFRED---
and indofred rejects that stench of shariah inspired law------then
I DID MAKE AN ERROR------to clarify------
the filth are those who advocate shariah inspired filth----which
INDOFRED----has -----repudiated I do apologize for my
error in attributing that filth to Indofred

 

[Saigon]

********* "INDONESIA HAS FIVE STATE RELIGIONS ALL WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!! ***********

Yes. that is right. That is something you should celebrate, and yet oddly enough you do not.

This has nothing to do with Armenia nor Uganda.

I do not celebrate it.
Five is a start but excludes are too many people. Things are changing rapidly but some of the more extreme idiots are still trying to cause trouble.

Their favourite trick is to delay the issue of a permit to a church then close it because it doesn't have a permit.
Totally wrong and I stand with the Christians on this issue, as so many other Muslims do.

What the extremists don't understand is, they do far more harm to Islam than any of the more extreme Zionists can ever do.
This makes the extremist Muslims more our enemy than anyone else's.

Those are very honest and open points.

I do think Pancasila is a very powerful ideal, and one other Islamic countries could look to copy. It is also something I'd like to see Rosie and Roudy support, although we both know they won't and can't.

On the other hand, I agree that defending 5 religions does not justify not defending the other religions. It's a slightly backhanded form of tolerance, to be sure.

Tolerance is a difficult thing to legislate at the best of times, but from my meetings with Indonesian politicians, I felt they genuinely support the role of churches and Christianity, but once you get out to Flores, Ambon or Aceh, it can be a different story.

 

[Indofred]

777777777777

you stated that the concept of "legal religions" vs
"illegal" religions should be "celebrated"
as you know in shariah law-----the "legal religions" are
generally those which are monotheistic----but the laws can
be adapted for convenience of the islamic overlords in their
exaction of tribute----to include any groups that have
enough money and economic power to pay them off.
Your request for a word by word quote is denied-----it is the
request of a dissembler------you were aware of the filth
which you advocated when you advised the celebration of
filth

i see you can't quote me so you're flustering in some weak attempt to say i did it.

Quote me or apologise for your lie.

wrong again------deny your admiration for the shariah inspired
concept of "legal religions" and the instrumentation of that
disgusting filth in indonesia --------or accept the fact that you
promote the kind of filth that has been the basis for gross genocides--
hisorically,,, in the hundreds of millions


edit - i just read the above again. Please show where i said that or admit you lied again. In fact, i said i do not celebrate it and it's only a couple of posts up so it's easy to see.

You lied

oh then it was someone else who admired the stench of shariah
as imposed in Indonesia- I do apologize for my
error in attributing that filth to Indofred

Only one tiny area of Indonesia is trying to impose such extreme law and it's hardly popular. I know of no Muslims around here who want that utter crap in the rest of Indonesia.

 

[irosie91]

I do think Pancasila is a very powerful ideal, and one other Islamic countries could look to copy. It is also something I'd like to see Rosie and Roudy support, although we both know they won't and can't.


Pancasila is simply a REITERATION OF THE STENCH OF SHARIAH which
allows the muslim over lords the RIGHT to define "legal" religions
which MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH "TRUTH OF THE KORAN" ----ie ---
generally monotheistic with christianity and judaism ----allowable
under variable restriction and oppression and the tacit acceptance of
ISLAM AS THE IDEAL Pancasila stinks and facilitated the bombing
of Bali by PANCASILA COMPLIANT muslims who decided hindus should
not have so much fun. Roudy and Rosie both repudiate the murder of
hindus for having too much fun



On the other hand, I agree that defending 5 religions does not justify not defending the other religions. It's a slightly backhanded form of tolerance, to be sure.

no---its fascism of the type that facilitates genocide. Its so easy----simply
decide that by the TRUTH OF THE "REAL" religion----the trinity concept
is a BLASPHEMY------or decide by the truth of the "REAL" religion of the
one and only "god"----that "THE JOOOOS IS MONKEY AND PIGS" ---
and as we saw in Bali-------by the truth of the "real" religion----
HINDUS MUST BE PUT DOWN BECAUSE OF THEIR "IDOLS"


Tolerance is a difficult thing to legislate at the best of times, but from my meetings with Indonesian politicians, I felt they genuinely support the role of churches and Christianity, but once you get out to Flores, Ambon or Aceh, it can be a different story.

Tolerance is EASY to LEGISLATE OUT OF EXISTENCE----simply pull in a bit
of shariah and ----the "truth" of the "glorious" koran. ---dhimmis always
have a "role" -----in fact they are vital to the functioning of a shariah society
as tributory subjugated ---"sub-nations" Even saudi arabia has to give in to
the concept of -----by maintaining a 20% non muslim population----which it
can manage by exploiting some really desperate impoverished people from
india and phillipines ----but since SAUDI ARABIA is the ultimate in
islamic holiness-------it is acceptable to keep that group completely enslaved---
even OPENLY-----whereas trying it in the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT is simply not
feasible ------anymore. If they could---they would-----but ---BUSINESS IS
BUSINESS in the world of shariah

 

[Saigon]

iRosie -

Is there are a reason why on every thread where we discuss Islamic issues you seem to ignore the everyday life and realities of the Islamic world, and focus entirely on sweeping generalisations about the Sharia?

You must know that much of the Islamic world uses laws based on the British system, and that Sharia as it exists ib Saudi Arabia simply does not exist in much of the Islamic world?

I have never seen any poster on this forum support the draconian Saudi Arabian style of justice - in which case surely it is a moot point?

 

[irosie91]

iRosie -

Is there are a reason why on every thread where we discuss Islamic issues you
seem to ignore the everyday life and realities of the Islamic world, and focus
entirely on sweeping generalisations about the Sharia?

You must know that much of the Islamic world uses laws based on the British
system, and that Sharia as it exists ib Saudi Arabia simply does not exist in
of the Islamic world?

I have never seen any poster on this forum support the draconian Saudi Arabian style of justice - in which case surely it is a moot point?

Of course there is a reason Saigon----It is because I worked closely with
muslims for more than 40 years and know the views of highly educated
immigrants from muslim countries to the USA regarding shariah and
its GLORIOUS nature----and because I m married to a jewish survivor
thereof. -----whose relatives and friends have told me of their experiences
that system. I also have a grasp of the history of shariah societies---
--based on primary sources which include survivors ---who wrote
extensively about the system and its effects on their communities----
-centuries ago.

I am fully aware of the fact that british involvement----and even TURKISH
involvement in countries amerliorated the nature of shariah---but I am
also fully aware of an agenda of REJUVENATION of that disgusting filth.
Long ago ----ie ---some 45 years ago---when I first became aware of the
high regard in which muslims hold that system------in its classic form---
-(during the civil rights era of the 60s) --
I was utterly confident that it would simply GO AWAY----just as
segregation was disappearing in the USA--------it hasn't---
--its coming back.
There are hundreds of millions of people who actually WANT IT. ---
and grew up being taught it as an IDEAL. Keep in mind--
--I knew Iranians pre-Khomeini --
--which led me to believe that Iran would throw off the filth
of shariah----by the early 1980s. I have lost that starry eyed optimism
forREAL REASON-----ie----REALITY.

The disgusting filth of shariah is far from dead---
---the caliphate fantasy is alive in the minds of lots of miserable and
desperate and dangerous people-----including in Indonesia and there
are lots and lots of very ambitious people-----like Osama bin laden and
Achmadinejad and Erdogan and Saddam and Khadaffy duck -
--to exploit that fantasy. Isa-respecter TAMERLANE was one of MANY.--
Experts in the field of study upon jihadist-isa-respecters actually predicted
him I heard that lecture about four years ago -----a bomb at a
sporting event------she said----was INEVITABLE. The pressure
cooker bomb was designed for a very specfic purpose----to blow the
brains out of random people's heads -----for the glory of isa. It is
a very typical islamicist MO

Did you know that MRS. TAMERLANE----on welfare----has managed
to retain a HIGH PROFILE defender of terrroists lawyer? She
has not been charged so -----it is not a public defender. Terrorist
murderers in my area have also been defended by very high profile
legal teams------ie ---penniless people are being supported for their
contribution to THE CAUSE

 

[Indofred]

Only a fool would deny there are problems in Indonesia but the place are generally getting better.
SBY is treading a fine line but he's doing really well and I'm going to be very sorry to see him leave office at the end of his term.
I hope and pray the new president has the same attitude.
Where I live, there are plenty of churches and even a couple of cathedrals, one was the target of extremist morons a couple of years ago but, thankfully, they failed.
As for mixing of the populations, people don't generally bother asking your religion and there is no religious violence except for a few morons who are generally corrupt, not religious.
As the cookie crumbles, most of my mates are Christians but there are plenty of Muslims in there as well. Can't say I know many from other religions but the Buddhist monks I met a few months ago were fine chaps.

As an example of how devout the FPI (Muslim defenders league) are, a church was having problems getting the required building permit so they paid the FPI and it turned up double time.

Hardly good Muslims, just bastards out for a bent buck.

Of course, unlike Israel, there are no Jewish settlements here that are for Jews only, excluding anyone and everyone else.

 

[Saigon]

Rosie -

I undertand your points, but you reasoning seems based very much on history and on extreme interpretations of Sharia. They are both valid in Yemen and Saudi Arabia - but have precious little relevance in Indonesia, Senegal or Turkey.

Reading your posts is like reading criticisms of Russia based on events that took place under Stalin. Those things were true, and in the case of Sharia are still true in some cases, but are simply not true in the majority of Islamic countries.

 

[irosie91]

Rosie -

I undertand your points, but you reasoning seems based very much on history and on extreme interpretations of Sharia. They are both valid in Yemen and Saudi Arabia - but have precious little relevance in Indonesia, Senegal or Turkey.

Reading your posts is like reading criticisms of Russia based on events that took place under Stalin. Those things were true, and in the case of Sharia are still true in some cases, but are simply not true in the majority of Islamic countries.

My reasoning is based on both history AND current events-----tunisia has never been
as radically ISLAMIC for centuries as it is today-----the good news is everyone left----so
it is almost a moot point that the little corner of the world has fallen into the cesspit.

Egypt is moving descending as is Lebanon---50 years ago----where would you have
predicted Lebanon would be today?. Ideological trends can be very surprising----and
the trend today IS ISLAMIZATION-----no one would describe the shariah of egypt today
as "extreme"-----but it still stinks. How much shariah do you think a non muslim
should "like"?

 

[Saigon]

tunisia has never been
as radically ISLAMIC for centuries as it is today

Really?

And yet when I go there I see bikini-clad German tourists drinking beer on the beach.

Odd.

How much shariah do you think a non muslim
should "like"?

It's not up to us to like or dislike (except in our own countries). I only have a problem with laws that are draconian and violent. I see that in Saudi Arabia - I don't see it in most Islamic countries.

 

[Indofred]

Indonesia anti-terror squad kills 7 militants | The Jakarta Post

The extremist, fantastic, wonderful Muslims who fight for Allah (not) , rob banks.
These aren't even good Muslims; just bastards out for cash.

The cops in Indonesia are mostly Muslims so good Muslims got rid of bad ones.

 

[irosie91]

Indonesia anti-terror squad kills 7 militants | The Jakarta Post

The extremist, fantastic, wonderful Muslims who fight for Allah (not) , rob banks.
These aren't even good Muslims; just bastards out for cash.

The cops in Indonesia are mostly Muslims so good Muslims got rid of bad ones.

Internecine strife amongst muslims ----in no way indicates that any
muslim majority country is IMMUNE from instituting the filth of
shariah Take Yemen as an example-----there are lots of factions--
OF ISLAMICISTS ----actually killing each other If some cops
of one islamicist faction shoots a bunch from another islamicist
faction------does SHARIAH EVAPORATE? of much close to
"home" right now -----HEZBOLLAH, AL QUEIDA and MUSLIM
BROTHERHOOD elements are spreading out-------I have no doubt
that the groups will clash here and there-----does that mean
ISLAMICISM EVAPORATES --------btw---throw BAATHISTS
in the mix------in my mind they are JUST AS DANGEROUS---and --
SCRATCH A BAATHIST and you will find an islamicist under the
surface. Playing "good islamicist" vs "bad islamicist" ----
never works and always ends up bloody ----with the PLAYER
ending up with a knife in his back

 

[Hossfly]

Only a fool would deny there are problems in Indonesia but the place are generally getting better.
SBY is treading a fine line but he's doing really well and I'm going to be very sorry to see him leave office at the end of his term.
I hope and pray the new president has the same attitude.
Where I live, there are plenty of churches and even a couple of cathedrals, one was the target of extremist morons a couple of years ago but, thankfully, they failed.
As for mixing of the populations, people don't generally bother asking your religion and there is no religious violence except for a few morons who are generally corrupt, not religious.
As the cookie crumbles, most of my mates are Christians but there are plenty of Muslims in there as well. Can't say I know many from other religions but the Buddhist monks I met a few months ago were fine chaps.

As an example of how devout the FPI (Muslim defenders league) are, a church was having problems getting the required building permit so they paid the FPI and it turned up double time.

Hardly good Muslims, just bastards out for a bent buck.

Of course, unlike Israel, there are no Jewish settlements here that are for Jews only, excluding anyone and everyone else.

Only a fool would not admit that Indonesia is getting worse for people of other religions. We realize a good Muslim convert like you has to keep what is going on with regard to non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects under the blankets, so to speak, but we can read the news on the Internet to see what is going on. Evidently, Fred has a problem with Jewish settlements, but he doesn't seem to have a problem with people being murdered in the name of a religion or the house of worship of different religions being destroyed.

 

[Hossfly]

Indonesia anti-terror squad kills 7 militants | The Jakarta Post

The extremist, fantastic, wonderful Muslims who fight for Allah (not) , rob banks.
These aren't even good Muslims; just bastards out for cash.

The cops in Indonesia are mostly Muslims so good Muslims got rid of bad ones.

Is it possible for you to get in touch with this guy, Fred, and tell him that what goes on in someone's bedroom is really not his business and to stop being an extremist Muslim. With a huge population like Indonesia, there must be millions of homosexuals who just want to be left alone and would prefer not to be lashed. Tell him he doesn't have to follow the example of what happens to homosexuals in other Muslim countries.

Banda Aceh Deputy Mayor Pushes for Bylaw Criminalizing Same-Sex Relationships - The Jakarta Globe

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

And yet we have seen very clearly on this thread, that you guys will not make the same statement about the dozens of non-Muslim countries in which the same situation occurs.

For all your talk of prejudice in the Islamic world, much of which is justified, it never quite covers up your own very obvious prejudice, does it?

Again - when will you complain about the fact that not a single country with a large Hindu population has avoided internecine violence?

 

[Saigon]

Only a fool would not admit that Indonesia is getting worse for people of other religions.

Ha! Only a fool would make such a statement without years of experience in the country concerned.

On this board, only Indofred is in a position to really know.

 

[irosie91]

Only a fool would not admit that Indonesia is getting worse for people of other religions.

Ha! Only a fool would make such a statement without years of experience in the country concerned.

On this board, only Indofred is in a position to really know.

Ha!!! only a fool would believe indofred. Even today----natives of the shariah
shit hole in which my husband was born ----on meeting him in the USA announce
----JEWS WERE HAPPY IN ____________. He always laughs

I am reminded of a little documentary I saw years ago-----a middle aged jew goes
back to his native town which happened to be AUSCHWITZ----his own family was
in the exterminated in the concentration camp there ----a reality which bothered
the rest of the town not a wit.------in fact a project with which they were fully
cooperative. --------in the documentary the townspeople told him ---how they
remembered him----during his time in the camp-----where he was worked almost
to death and they reminded him of how the loved and cared for him and
how the "helped him" and how pleasant things were -----the man said nothing but smiled----and nodded --after which he discussed the reality of the utter betrayal he had actually experienced. His family had been betrayed, utterly pillaged and----abandoned to die

their experience of the situations was simply _---DIFFERENT

 

[Saigon]

Rosie -

PLEASE try and stick to the topic, which is not Sharia law, nor the Holocaust. Pancasila is much more relevant to the issue of Indonesia.

You say only a fool would listen to someone who lives in Indonesia, and yet are more than happy to based your opinions on those of people who have never been there. That makes no sense to me.

Fred has been VERY open and honest about the failings of Pancasila - and I think you guys could learn something from that kind of posting.

You don't have to listen to Indofred, but you must admit that he is more likely to know about Indonesia than anyone else on this board.


Toastman -

Please refer to the I/P forum rules on flaming. All further off-topic comments will be ignored.