'Palestinian'

[Challenger]

There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!

....so how do you arrive at your figure of 30,000 in Safed in 1600?

 

[Shusha]

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.

You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here. IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted. Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.

 

[Challenger]

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.

You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here. IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted. Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.

No he isn't.

There was no, "removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion" of the native population of Palestine. Empires don't work that way as a rule; they may "remove" trouble makers and threats to public order, i.e. religious zealots, from time to time, so they can govern the majority of the population with varying degrees of authoritarian control and more importantly, from an imperial perspective, continue to obtain tax revenue. Those parts of the population that followed Judaism, often descendants of forced converts themselves, merely changed religions as it suited them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.

What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.

You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here. IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted. Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.

No he isn't.

There was no, "removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion" of the native population of Palestine. Empires don't work that way as a rule; they may "remove" trouble makers and threats to public order, i.e. religious zealots, from time to time, so they can govern the majority of the population with varying degrees of authoritarian control and more importantly, from an imperial perspective, continue to obtain tax revenue. Those parts of the population that followed Judaism, often descendants of forced converts themselves, merely changed religions as it suited them.

That is true. Colonialism, when an area is conquered, the political and intellectual elites are removed and the rest stay to be exploited.

In settler colonialism, like in Israel, the people are removed and replaced by another people. However, since the advent of international law in the last 100 to 200 years, this practice has become illegal.

 

[montelatici]

There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.

You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here. IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted. Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.

There was no expulsion, most of the inhabitants of Palestine converted to Christianity as it was convenient to do so. Most of the pre-Muslim conquest Christians, who were the overwhelming majority in Palestine, gradually converted to Islam. Also because it was convenient. Changing religion doesn't change the DNA, don't you get it?

 

[montelatici]

Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century. Grow up you silly little twit.
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.

And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
:^)
AS I always say
Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my *****.
`

You can look up the special occasions when monte used the "hasbara card' attacking a Palestinian lawyer, advisor to the PLO, who crushed his 'arguments' on the same issue...or being caught photoshoping documents, just to claim later he has "the only true source'.
Some delightful calls for genocide of all non-Christians in Israel and Palestine are there too- just look it up, he enjoys being reminded of that.

BTW did You know our monte has also proclaimed to being "a professor" -serious stuff!
Enjoy

Yes, look it up. You are just making things up because the facts overwhelmingly demonstrate that all you know is Zionist propaganda. My "arguments" have never been "crushed" because I just state the facts. And, you lying piece of crap, if anyone photoshops documents it is you. The 2005 map purporting to be a pre-partition map showing Jordan as Arab Palestine, now that was a good one.

 

[montelatici]

Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century. Grow up you silly little twit.
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.

And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
:^)
AS I always say
Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my *****.
`

You lost terribly again. Even moderate Hasbara sources make you look like a fool. But keep it up, you are an entertaining dimwit.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?

How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.

You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.

Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!

Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.

Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.

As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.

The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.

As the self-designated spokes-turban for the arabs-moslems, you need to keep up. The most unique thing about middle Eastern Islamist fascism is its relation to Arab'ism. Just ask your heroes in the PLO.

From the 1968 charter:

Article 1:
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.


Not much allowance there for your phony claims to "diversity...."

OK, but that does not explain how some Palestinians are blonde with blue eyes and others dark with kinky hair and the varieties in between.

 

[rylah]

Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?

Deflection. What I posted is correct.

So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.

Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.

Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?

 

[rylah]

There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.

This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?

Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:

The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).

Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View

 

[montelatici]

There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.

This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?

Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:

The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).

Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View

Funny that you would post this, and feel comfortable doing so. If anyone posted similar anthropological treatises about Jews, they would say just about the same thing about Jews. Of course, if Jews are the subject of racist attacks it is called antisemitism, but when racist attacks on other peoples are posted, it is just fine. Like being in that sort of position don't you.

 

[montelatici]

Deflection. What I posted is correct.

So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.

Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.

Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?

Yes, the British promoted the invasion/colonization of Palestine by assigning Jews citizenship as soon as they arrived and they became Palestinians. Atbthe expense of the native Muslims and Christians. The unwritten plan was to put insure that the native Muslims and Christians, in time, would become subservient to Jews. The British were successful. Being the colonial power that they were in the early 20th century, they could not conceive that native people would resist European rule for long. They didn't find out until after WW2.

 

[rylah]

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?

Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?

My point is simple:

Flag of Israel

Talit

Israel emblem

Israeli currency

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All this is of the land.
What Palestinian heritage is distinct to this land?

 

[rylah]

Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century. Grow up you silly little twit.
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)

You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.

And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
:^)
AS I always say
Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my *****.
`

You can look up the special occasions when monte used the "hasbara card' attacking a Palestinian lawyer, advisor to the PLO, who crushed his 'arguments' on the same issue...or being caught photoshoping documents, just to claim later he has "the only true source'.
Some delightful calls for genocide of all non-Christians in Israel and Palestine are there too- just look it up, he enjoys being reminded of that.

BTW did You know our monte has also proclaimed to being "a professor" -serious stuff!
Enjoy

Yes, look it up. You are just making things up because the facts overwhelmingly demonstrate that all you know is Zionist propaganda. My "arguments" have never been "crushed" because I just state the facts. And, you lying piece of crap, if anyone photoshops documents it is you. The 2005 map purporting to be a pre-partition map showing Jordan as Arab Palestine, now that was a good one.

Oh "zionistiche porpaganda". In other words LAME.

You admitted to editing documents after I pointed at it.
More to the point it was on a similar subject. You tried to deny Jews existed in Palestine. Even called a PA advisor, a lawyer in the UN a "hasbara propaganda".

Should I present it again with Your other nonsense, calling for a genocide of all non Christians in the holy land?

 

[montelatici]

I never edited a document you idiot. Please present it again.

 

[rylah]

I like Your arguments desperate. Why all the stress?

Here You admitted to editing a document that in the 1st place looked fishy, because You cut and used pieces of it...

"I aligned the left and right pages correctly as the single scan had them unaligned. Another lying Zionist complained about it and I aligned them, you lying Zionist scum. "
Judaism and zionism are extreme opposites - post #26


You see You just can't do so and claim that You have
"THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE".

 

[P F Tinmore]

Deflection. What I posted is correct.

So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.

Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.

Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?

Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.

 

[rylah]

So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.

Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.

Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?

Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.

Ok so that time Palestinians gained citizenship under British rule.
Were Jews Palestinians then?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.

Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.

Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?

Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.

Ok so that time Palestinians gained citizenship under British rule.
Were Jews Palestinians then?

Sure, the Jews who held Turkish citizenship became Palestinians.

This is in accordance with the rule of state succession in international law.