Judaism and zionism are extreme opposites

[The Sage of Main Street]

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.

Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005

10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005

For Munich, Throw Sissy Spielberg in With These Lemmings

Selfish cowards, the same type of Yellow Jews who led their people into getting meekly massacred in the Holocaust.

 

[montelatici]

You Hasbara types think you are clever don't you. You are a lying Zionist.

My original premise was and has always been that "Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews." Exactly what the British reported.

There was no ethnic cleansing of Jews or expulsion 50 years earlier. There was civil strife wherein people of all religions, Muslims included, were killed. In Sefad the targets were the invading European Jews, not the local Jews and you know it. The local Jews paid the price of trying to protect the invading Europeans who were intent on stealing the land from the native non_Jewish inhabitants.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF

PALESTINE,

during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.


AN INTERIM REPORT
ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.

I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

Actualy Your original claim was a racial one, that all Jews of Israel were Russians brought by a Zionist:
Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

Since then You've changed Your goalposts a couple of time.
All I showed You was that there was Jewish presence and work in Eretz Israel continuously throughout history.

You denying that Jews were mascaraed during the Arab peasant revolt and expelled from Jerusalem, Sefad, Tiberias and Hebron just 50 years before the first Zionist immigration is another futile attempt to deny history.

Let's see how many goalpost will You change until You Yourself prove me right again.

Although technically not Zionists (as Zionism had not yet been established) by the early 1800's the Jewish population of Safed had begun to grow, due to the immigration of Eastern European Ashkanazi Jews.

The Jews were not expelled from Palestine after the Arab peasant revolt. In fact, when order was restored the Jews received reparations from the government. While several hundred Christians and Jews were killed (and twice as many Muslims were killed) during the uprising none were ethnically cleansed.

Those Jews weren't entirely expelled from Palestine, they were massacred and stripped of their land and possessions although they didn't take any side or part in the revolt against the Egyptians.
Jews were just the right minority to target, even when promised otherwise by Pasha.

These men informed me that the Jews of the place, who were exceedingly wealthy, had lived peaceably in their retirement until the insurrection which took place in 1834, but about the beginning of that year a highly religious Mussulman called Mohammed Damoor went forth into the market-place, crying with a loud voice, and prophesying that on the fifteenth of the following June the true Believers would rise up in just wrath against the Jews, and despoil them of their gold and their silver and their jewels. The earnestness of the prophet produced some impression at the time, but all went on as usual, until at last the fifteenth of June arrived. When that day dawned the whole Mussulman population of the place assembled in the streets that they might see the result of the prophecy. Suddenly Mohammed Damoor rushed furious into the crowd, and the fierce shout of the prophet soon ensured the fulfilment of his prophecy. Some of the Jews fled and some remained, but they who fled and they who remained, alike, and unresistingly, left their property to the hands of the spoilers. The most odious of all outrages, that of searching the women for the base purpose of discovering such things as gold and silver concealed about their persons, was perpetrated without shame. The poor Jews were so stricken with terror, that they submitted to their fate even where resistance would have been easy. In several instances a young Mussulman boy, not more than ten or twelve years of age, walked straight into the house of a Jew and stripped him of his property before his face, and in the presence of his whole family. 43 When the insurrection was put down some of the Mussulmans (most probably those who had got no spoil wherewith they might buy immunity) were punished, but the greater part of them escaped. None of the booty was restored, and the pecuniary redress which the Pasha had undertaken to enforce for them had been hitherto so carefully delayed, that the hope of ever obtaining it had grown very faint.

You provide more Zionist propaganda from a Zionist site without indicating the source.

The old "woe is me" crap does not work anymore. Christians and Muslims died during the rebellion of 1834, in far greater numbers than Jews. A few hundred Jews died while tens of thousands of Muslims and Christians either died or were deported.

"The 1834 revolt and the immediate aftermath reduced the male population of Palestine by about one-fifth."

Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)

Quit dancing around Professor,

the source I used above was from the Adelaide University-
Alexander William Kinglake ( Eothen, by Alexander William Kinglake : contents)

a traveler to Palestine at the time.

If You need more sources there're enough, and they show a much a worse situation.
But what's Your premise, that Jews had no rights to self determination because they were targeted minority among the Arabs?

The Jews did not have the right of self-determination by taking land that was already inhabited by a vast majority of non-Jews.

 

[Hollie]

Actualy Your original claim was a racial one, that all Jews of Israel were Russians brought by a Zionist:
Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

Since then You've changed Your goalposts a couple of time.
All I showed You was that there was Jewish presence and work in Eretz Israel continuously throughout history.

You denying that Jews were mascaraed during the Arab peasant revolt and expelled from Jerusalem, Sefad, Tiberias and Hebron just 50 years before the first Zionist immigration is another futile attempt to deny history.

Let's see how many goalpost will You change until You Yourself prove me right again.

Although technically not Zionists (as Zionism had not yet been established) by the early 1800's the Jewish population of Safed had begun to grow, due to the immigration of Eastern European Ashkanazi Jews.

The Jews were not expelled from Palestine after the Arab peasant revolt. In fact, when order was restored the Jews received reparations from the government. While several hundred Christians and Jews were killed (and twice as many Muslims were killed) during the uprising none were ethnically cleansed.

Those Jews weren't entirely expelled from Palestine, they were massacred and stripped of their land and possessions although they didn't take any side or part in the revolt against the Egyptians.
Jews were just the right minority to target, even when promised otherwise by Pasha.

These men informed me that the Jews of the place, who were exceedingly wealthy, had lived peaceably in their retirement until the insurrection which took place in 1834, but about the beginning of that year a highly religious Mussulman called Mohammed Damoor went forth into the market-place, crying with a loud voice, and prophesying that on the fifteenth of the following June the true Believers would rise up in just wrath against the Jews, and despoil them of their gold and their silver and their jewels. The earnestness of the prophet produced some impression at the time, but all went on as usual, until at last the fifteenth of June arrived. When that day dawned the whole Mussulman population of the place assembled in the streets that they might see the result of the prophecy. Suddenly Mohammed Damoor rushed furious into the crowd, and the fierce shout of the prophet soon ensured the fulfilment of his prophecy. Some of the Jews fled and some remained, but they who fled and they who remained, alike, and unresistingly, left their property to the hands of the spoilers. The most odious of all outrages, that of searching the women for the base purpose of discovering such things as gold and silver concealed about their persons, was perpetrated without shame. The poor Jews were so stricken with terror, that they submitted to their fate even where resistance would have been easy. In several instances a young Mussulman boy, not more than ten or twelve years of age, walked straight into the house of a Jew and stripped him of his property before his face, and in the presence of his whole family. 43 When the insurrection was put down some of the Mussulmans (most probably those who had got no spoil wherewith they might buy immunity) were punished, but the greater part of them escaped. None of the booty was restored, and the pecuniary redress which the Pasha had undertaken to enforce for them had been hitherto so carefully delayed, that the hope of ever obtaining it had grown very faint.

You provide more Zionist propaganda from a Zionist site without indicating the source.

The old "woe is me" crap does not work anymore. Christians and Muslims died during the rebellion of 1834, in far greater numbers than Jews. A few hundred Jews died while tens of thousands of Muslims and Christians either died or were deported.

"The 1834 revolt and the immediate aftermath reduced the male population of Palestine by about one-fifth."

Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)

Quit dancing around Professor,

the source I used above was from the Adelaide University-
Alexander William Kinglake ( Eothen, by Alexander William Kinglake : contents)

a traveler to Palestine at the time.

If You need more sources there're enough, and they show a much a worse situation.
But what's Your premise, that Jews had no rights to self determination because they were targeted minority among the Arabs?

The Jews did not have the right of self-determination by taking land that was already inhabited by a vast majority of non-Jews.

The Jewish people fulfilled the intent of the Mandate which was to establish the Jewish National Home.

Odd that you're whining about the earlier invaders who were unable to establish their self-determination.

 

[rylah]

Actualy Your original claim was a racial one, that all Jews of Israel were Russians brought by a Zionist:
Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

Since then You've changed Your goalposts a couple of time.
All I showed You was that there was Jewish presence and work in Eretz Israel continuously throughout history.

You denying that Jews were mascaraed during the Arab peasant revolt and expelled from Jerusalem, Sefad, Tiberias and Hebron just 50 years before the first Zionist immigration is another futile attempt to deny history.

Let's see how many goalpost will You change until You Yourself prove me right again.

Although technically not Zionists (as Zionism had not yet been established) by the early 1800's the Jewish population of Safed had begun to grow, due to the immigration of Eastern European Ashkanazi Jews.

The Jews were not expelled from Palestine after the Arab peasant revolt. In fact, when order was restored the Jews received reparations from the government. While several hundred Christians and Jews were killed (and twice as many Muslims were killed) during the uprising none were ethnically cleansed.

Those Jews weren't entirely expelled from Palestine, they were massacred and stripped of their land and possessions although they didn't take any side or part in the revolt against the Egyptians.
Jews were just the right minority to target, even when promised otherwise by Pasha.

These men informed me that the Jews of the place, who were exceedingly wealthy, had lived peaceably in their retirement until the insurrection which took place in 1834, but about the beginning of that year a highly religious Mussulman called Mohammed Damoor went forth into the market-place, crying with a loud voice, and prophesying that on the fifteenth of the following June the true Believers would rise up in just wrath against the Jews, and despoil them of their gold and their silver and their jewels. The earnestness of the prophet produced some impression at the time, but all went on as usual, until at last the fifteenth of June arrived. When that day dawned the whole Mussulman population of the place assembled in the streets that they might see the result of the prophecy. Suddenly Mohammed Damoor rushed furious into the crowd, and the fierce shout of the prophet soon ensured the fulfilment of his prophecy. Some of the Jews fled and some remained, but they who fled and they who remained, alike, and unresistingly, left their property to the hands of the spoilers. The most odious of all outrages, that of searching the women for the base purpose of discovering such things as gold and silver concealed about their persons, was perpetrated without shame. The poor Jews were so stricken with terror, that they submitted to their fate even where resistance would have been easy. In several instances a young Mussulman boy, not more than ten or twelve years of age, walked straight into the house of a Jew and stripped him of his property before his face, and in the presence of his whole family. 43 When the insurrection was put down some of the Mussulmans (most probably those who had got no spoil wherewith they might buy immunity) were punished, but the greater part of them escaped. None of the booty was restored, and the pecuniary redress which the Pasha had undertaken to enforce for them had been hitherto so carefully delayed, that the hope of ever obtaining it had grown very faint.

You provide more Zionist propaganda from a Zionist site without indicating the source.

The old "woe is me" crap does not work anymore. Christians and Muslims died during the rebellion of 1834, in far greater numbers than Jews. A few hundred Jews died while tens of thousands of Muslims and Christians either died or were deported.

"The 1834 revolt and the immediate aftermath reduced the male population of Palestine by about one-fifth."

Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)

Quit dancing around Professor,

the source I used above was from the Adelaide University-
Alexander William Kinglake ( Eothen, by Alexander William Kinglake : contents)

a traveler to Palestine at the time.

If You need more sources there're enough, and they show a much a worse situation.
But what's Your premise, that Jews had no rights to self determination because they were targeted minority among the Arabs?

The Jews did not have the right of self-determination by taking land that was already inhabited by a vast majority of non-Jews.

Arab Palestinians and Egyptians had no right to expel Jews from Sefad, Hebron, Jerusalem and Gaza and strip them of their possessions.
The Crusades are a whole other story.

However if You're willing to discuss the subject at hand, try to relate to the Jewish law regarding settling the land, inheriting it, war of commandment and the 3 swears.

Let's see how You handle it rationally Professor.

 

[Challenger]

Quiet the opposite, the amount of Jewish works done by rabbis who returned from exile is vast.

Perhaps, we have prolific authors today, but in terms of overall populations, when the entire Jewish population of Eastern and Western Europe, North Africa and even the rest of the Middle East is involved, the numbers settling in the so called "Holy Land" were miniscule.

We're talking about a span of roughly 2000 years, and to say that during those dark ages Jews had the conditions to cross continents is just ignorant towards the situation of the Jews in Europe, and the financial as well as existential conditions of the time. Even Maimonides had to move from Israel Egypt after fleeing Spain because of those conditions.

No we're not, and even if we were, travel was far more commonplace than you might imagine, even in the later Roman period trans-Mediterranean sea routes existed and were widely used by traders and the like. In the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries there were multiple voyages of colonisation financed by syndicates, and merchant companies; are you seriously suggesting that had there been any real "yearning" to "return", Jewish financiers couldn't have organised such a voyage or series of voyages to the "holy land"?

 

[rylah]

Quiet the opposite, the amount of Jewish works done by rabbis who returned from exile is vast.

Perhaps, we have prolific authors today, but in terms of overall populations, when the entire Jewish population of Eastern and Western Europe, North Africa and even the rest of the Middle East is involved, the numbers settling in the so called "Holy Land" were miniscule.

We're talking about a span of roughly 2000 years, and to say that during those dark ages Jews had the conditions to cross continents is just ignorant towards the situation of the Jews in Europe, and the financial as well as existential conditions of the time. Even Maimonides had to move from Israel Egypt after fleeing Spain because of those conditions.

No we're not, and even if we were, travel was far more commonplace than you might imagine, even in the later Roman period trans-Mediterranean sea routes existed and were widely used by traders and the like. In the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries there were multiple voyages of colonisation financed by syndicates, and merchant companies; are you seriously suggesting that had there been any real "yearning" to "return", Jewish financiers couldn't have organised such a voyage or series of voyages to the "holy land"?

1. The works of Palestinian Jews was vast, take the Jerusalem Talmud, Mishnah, Kabalah and all the commentaries- they fills libraries.
The "miniscule" numbers are actually in the thousands 7000-15000 according to Monte's and my various sources. Keeping in mind the usual massecare here and there and the special taxes on the Jews, it paints a clear picture of alive and constantly renewing Jewish communty centers.

2. Travel for a Jew was not like travel for a European who could choose a rout most friendly to his congregation. A Jew on the other hand was banned from leaving his small village, G-d forbid his shadow falls on a Christian.
Nevertheless this is not to say that Jews from Europe didn't succeed in settling in Jerusalem, Hebron, Gaza and the Galilee. Building longstanding synagogues and schools. Under great pressure Jewish culture and presence as a minority kept developing in the land being supported by Jews from around the world. More than that the Jewish community of Jerusalem was always in contact with those in exile- no work could be accepted without it been reviewed first by the biggest Rabbis of each community.

Without that we wouldn't have Kabalah, Shulchan Aruch, and the Jerusalem Talmud to name a few.

 

[Challenger]

The "miniscule" numbers are actually in the thousands 7000-15000 according to Monte's and my various sources.

Prior to 1880 estimates of Jewish populations in Europe vary around the 7-10 million, so not counting those in North Africa and the rest of the Middle east, even with the high end of your estimate and the low end of mine, we are looking at a miniscule number 0.2%, of the total population that chose to live in their so called "holy land" http://www.un.org/en/holocaustremembrance/docs/pdf/Volume I/The_History_of_the_Jews_in_Europe.pdf

The works of Palestinian Jews was vast, take the Jerusalem Talmud, Mishnah, Kabalah and all the commentaries- they fills libraries.

Books aren't people. See my comment above.

Travel for a Jew was not like travel for a European who could choose a rout most friendly to his congregation. A Jew on the other hand was banned from leaving his small village, G-d forbid his shadow falls on a Christian.

What's your evidence for this?

Most Jewish communities were situated in coastal and riverine port cities and had ready access to maritime travel, since before Roman times. Jewish traders travelled as far a China, so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility, that had their been an overwhelming "yearning" to "return" amongst the general Jewish population, they would have found the means to do so. HHF Factpaper: Jewish Traders of the Diaspora; Part I: The Persian Period

The fact is that these Jewish people had no connection with Palestine outside of their religion, they were all native ethnic English, French, German, Polish, Russian, Algerian, Tunisian, etc, etc, and were content to remain in their native communities where they were. It was Zionism that created the myth of "The Jewish People" being an ethnicity along with the myth and invention of a "holy land" for Jewish people.

 

[Challenger]

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.

Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005

10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005

For Munich, Throw Sissy Spielberg in With These Lemmings

Selfish cowards, the same type of Yellow Jews who led their people into getting meekly massacred in the Holocaust.

Another Zionist lie.

“Learning about the Jews who fought back shatters the stereotypes of passivity and victimization that sometimes colors views of the Holocaust,”-- Mitch Braff, Executive Director of the Jewish Partisan Educational Foundation. The Jews Who Fought Back

 

[montelatici]

Although technically not Zionists (as Zionism had not yet been established) by the early 1800's the Jewish population of Safed had begun to grow, due to the immigration of Eastern European Ashkanazi Jews.

The Jews were not expelled from Palestine after the Arab peasant revolt. In fact, when order was restored the Jews received reparations from the government. While several hundred Christians and Jews were killed (and twice as many Muslims were killed) during the uprising none were ethnically cleansed.

Those Jews weren't entirely expelled from Palestine, they were massacred and stripped of their land and possessions although they didn't take any side or part in the revolt against the Egyptians.
Jews were just the right minority to target, even when promised otherwise by Pasha.

These men informed me that the Jews of the place, who were exceedingly wealthy, had lived peaceably in their retirement until the insurrection which took place in 1834, but about the beginning of that year a highly religious Mussulman called Mohammed Damoor went forth into the market-place, crying with a loud voice, and prophesying that on the fifteenth of the following June the true Believers would rise up in just wrath against the Jews, and despoil them of their gold and their silver and their jewels. The earnestness of the prophet produced some impression at the time, but all went on as usual, until at last the fifteenth of June arrived. When that day dawned the whole Mussulman population of the place assembled in the streets that they might see the result of the prophecy. Suddenly Mohammed Damoor rushed furious into the crowd, and the fierce shout of the prophet soon ensured the fulfilment of his prophecy. Some of the Jews fled and some remained, but they who fled and they who remained, alike, and unresistingly, left their property to the hands of the spoilers. The most odious of all outrages, that of searching the women for the base purpose of discovering such things as gold and silver concealed about their persons, was perpetrated without shame. The poor Jews were so stricken with terror, that they submitted to their fate even where resistance would have been easy. In several instances a young Mussulman boy, not more than ten or twelve years of age, walked straight into the house of a Jew and stripped him of his property before his face, and in the presence of his whole family. 43 When the insurrection was put down some of the Mussulmans (most probably those who had got no spoil wherewith they might buy immunity) were punished, but the greater part of them escaped. None of the booty was restored, and the pecuniary redress which the Pasha had undertaken to enforce for them had been hitherto so carefully delayed, that the hope of ever obtaining it had grown very faint.

You provide more Zionist propaganda from a Zionist site without indicating the source.

The old "woe is me" crap does not work anymore. Christians and Muslims died during the rebellion of 1834, in far greater numbers than Jews. A few hundred Jews died while tens of thousands of Muslims and Christians either died or were deported.

"The 1834 revolt and the immediate aftermath reduced the male population of Palestine by about one-fifth."

Peasants' Revolt of 1834 (Palestine)

Quit dancing around Professor,

the source I used above was from the Adelaide University-
Alexander William Kinglake ( Eothen, by Alexander William Kinglake : contents)

a traveler to Palestine at the time.

If You need more sources there're enough, and they show a much a worse situation.
But what's Your premise, that Jews had no rights to self determination because they were targeted minority among the Arabs?

The Jews did not have the right of self-determination by taking land that was already inhabited by a vast majority of non-Jews.

Arab Palestinians and Egyptians had no right to expel Jews from Sefad, Hebron, Jerusalem and Gaza and strip them of their possessions.
The Crusades are a whole other story.

However if You're willing to discuss the subject at hand, try to relate to the Jewish law regarding settling the land, inheriting it, war of commandment and the 3 swears.

Let's see how You handle it rationally Professor.

Jews were not expelled from Palestine. Most Jews, as with all non-Christians in Roman Palaestina converted to Christianity after 380 AD. The 8,000 or so Jews in Palestine in 1893 as per the Ottoman Census of that year were (excluding a number of European Jews that had begun migrating to Palestine pre and post Zionism) Arab Jews that spoke Arabic and were culturally Arab whose ancestors had to leave Spain along with the Arab Muslims after the Christian Reconquista of Spain. These Arab Jews had a right to remain in Palestine along with the Arab Christians and Arab Muslims. What neutral and normal people cannot agree with is the colonization of Palestine by Europeans of the Jewish faith and the robbery of land from the non-Jews by these Europeans.

I don't give a crap about Jewish law, no religious bullshit law will convince me that stealing land and enslaving/imprisoning/oppressing people because of their faith is anything but a crime against humanity.

This early cinema documentary depicts Jerusalem in 1896 three years after the Ottoman census. It's tough for you Hasbara types when we have video evidence demonstrating you are all full of crap.

 

[louie888]

If you have read along, it should be clear. Regardless of how the Israelis act and what they pretend, murder and taking land by force is a big no-no in G-d's eyes.

That´s not an answer. The wrongdoings of a government don´t justify the rejection of the own country....

You are simply missing the point.

• The founding principles of Zionism run counter to Judaism.
• The State of "Israel" does not represent the Jewish people.
• Aggressive acts committed in the name of Zionism are crimes and not religious imperatives.
• Zionists have no right to commit violent acts towards anyone — neither Palestinian nor Jew

Israel Versus Judaism

 

[Bleipriester]

If you have read along, it should be clear. Regardless of how the Israelis act and what they pretend, murder and taking land by force is a big no-no in G-d's eyes.

That´s not an answer. The wrongdoings of a government don´t justify the rejection of the own country....

You are simply missing the point.

• The founding principles of Zionism run counter to Judaism.
• The State of "Israel" does not represent the Jewish people.
• Aggressive acts committed in the name of Zionism are crimes and not religious imperatives.
• Zionists have no right to commit violent acts towards anyone — neither Palestinian nor Jew

Israel Versus Judaism

No, no. I got the point. This all dos not change that there could theoretically be a revolution. Would Israel still be illegitimate after the Zionists were deprived of power?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Oh, good grief.

The Neuteri Karta are the poster boys for every stupid asshole Antisemite out there trying to justify their hatred of Jews by finding some nut job Jews who agree.

 

[Shusha]

• The founding principles of Zionism run counter to Judaism.

To say that Judaism is the extreme opposite of anything reduces a rather titanic, complex and sprawling religious belief system, legal code, cultural fabric and historical mythology of an entire peoples down to a few trite little "principles".

But what the hell, give it a go. Defend your claim. Which "principles" of Judaism run counter to the idea that the Jewish people should have a national self-determination?

 

[rylah]

The "miniscule" numbers are actually in the thousands 7000-15000 according to Monte's and my various sources.

Prior to 1880 estimates of Jewish populations in Europe vary around the 7-10 million, so not counting those in North Africa and the rest of the Middle east, even with the high end of your estimate and the low end of mine, we are looking at a miniscule number 0.2%, of the total population that chose to live in their so called "holy land" http://www.un.org/en/holocaustremembrance/docs/pdf/Volume I/The_History_of_the_Jews_in_Europe.pdf

The works of Palestinian Jews was vast, take the Jerusalem Talmud, Mishnah, Kabalah and all the commentaries- they fills libraries.

Books aren't people. See my comment above.

Travel for a Jew was not like travel for a European who could choose a rout most friendly to his congregation. A Jew on the other hand was banned from leaving his small village, G-d forbid his shadow falls on a Christian.

What's your evidence for this?

Most Jewish communities were situated in coastal and riverine port cities and had ready access to maritime travel, since before Roman times. Jewish traders travelled as far a China, so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility, that had their been an overwhelming "yearning" to "return" amongst the general Jewish population, they would have found the means to do so. HHF Factpaper: Jewish Traders of the Diaspora; Part I: The Persian Period

The fact is that these Jewish people had no connection with Palestine outside of their religion, they were all native ethnic English, French, German, Polish, Russian, Algerian, Tunisian, etc, etc, and were content to remain in their native communities where they were. It was Zionism that created the myth of "The Jewish People" being an ethnicity along with the myth and invention of a "holy land" for Jewish people.

The holliness of the land is not a subject to the the amount of Jews in or their personal choices.
Wealthy people like Maimonides and others tried to settle but didn't manage to stay for long.

Moving to Palestine meant facing constantly changing rulers, wars, facing hunger, malaria, monetary hardships and especially in the light of the special 'Jewish taxes'.

Another factor is Jews lived in enclosed communities facing persecution and assimilation, spread throuout the world- they didn't have one unified and organized voice. Especially after Shabtai Zvi and Frankists, Jews became very suspicious of other Jews from those other countries.
However the biggest pre-Zionism immigrations occured at the period when Jews had to fight the Frankist libels being backed by the Catholic church. The most opposing and prominent Rabbis of that time- Rabi Israel Baal Shem Tov and his counterpart Rabi Elyahu the Gaon agreed on one thing- they both sent whole communities to Israel to settle and enforce the longstanding communities in Jerusalem, Hebron, Shchem, Beit El, Sefad and Tiberias.

There were much more powerful people than You who tried to erase Jewish history, or disconnect them from the land...they're all gone with their heritage burried in the history books,faithfull or secular they always pointed at the Jew, Kant even called the Jews "the Palestinians among us".
So basically- Your brethern had a long run at that job You try here, You no longer have a say on who the Jews are or not, it expired in the 1940's.

 

[montelatici]

What a load of bullshit. The Jews "fighting the Catholic Church" were European Jews with little to no ancestral ties to the Middle East. They were descendants of European converts. The Jews in Spain had arrived with the Muslim invaders and it was not to be expected that the Christians would allow a part of the invasion and colonizing forces to remain in Spain without becoming Christians, Muslims and Jews that converted to Christianity remained in Spain most of the Muslim and Jewish less-wealthy found it convenient to convert. The previous ruling class, which included Jews, had the interest and means to retreat to Muslim territory in North Africa. Some of these wealthy Jews moved to Livorno in Italy, and established their previous Spanish businesses there.

'Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts,


......maternal lineages did not originate in the Near or Middle East or the Khazarian Caucasus but rather, for the most part, within Mediterranean Europe. Another twist in the findings: Jewish women may have been assimilated in Europe as far back as 2,000 years ago—earlier than most other studies have projected. The researchers believe the DNA could trace back to the early Roman Empire, when as much as 10 percent of the population practiced Judaism, many of them converts...........................80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe...."

Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts, new study asserts | Genetic Literacy Project

 

[louie888]

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I hope this helps clear up the confusion.

Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel – protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday, April 28, 2005

10,000 Demonstrate in NYC Against Israel on April 28, 2005

They are Satmar sect of Hasidim , not the same a Lubavitcher anyone who is Jewish should know this, reading the op it reads like a generic orthodox , thus implying orthodox rejects Zionism

Hasidic groups largely emigrated to the US after the Holocaust. Each sect follows a single grand Rebbe, admiring him to such a degree that his table leftovers are considered blessed. The grand Rebbe position is generally hereditary, although it may pass to a son-in-law (who may have been selected for this) rather than to a son. I can think of two current Hasidic groups that have opted not to replace a beloved Rebbe after he died, and who are thus without a single leader: Breslov, who have been rebbe-less for 200 years, and Chabad (see below.) Aside from Chabad, they are very inward-focused, with the entire sect generally living in either one place, or a short list of communities (e.g. Belzers live in Jerusalem, Borough Park, Brooklyn, and I think Montreal.) The lingua franca is generally Yidish; boys, whose Jewish education is prioritized, may receive very little English education and may speak English poorly and with a heavy accent, even if their family has lived in the US for 4-5 generations. The sexes are even more rigidly separated in non-Chabad Hasidic groups than in other UO groups; for example, wedding celebrations are generally held in two separate rooms, rather than in one large room with a divider. The men tend to have distinctive dress, in the style of Eastern European gentry of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, and I find that when people think of "Orthodox Jew," they tend to be picturing "Hasidic man." Some groups get along quite well (e.g. they may marry across sect lines), and some really don't. I'm not plugged in at all to the intricate world of Hasidic politics, and can't really give you a good overview, but it can get fairly ugly, especially in Israel. This tends to be political/financial rather than purely religious, although they may have slightly different interpretations of halacha (and yes, the narcissism of small differences definitely applies here.)

Chabad is a Hasidic group, one currently riven by a division between those who revere the most recent Rebbe, but acknowledge his death in 1994, and those who still consider him the Messiah. (Frankly, non-Chabad Orthodox Jews find the latter group quite disturbing.) The most recent Rebbe charged his followers with bringing all Jews closer to observance of Jewish law and Judaism. These are the Hasidic Jews who may have asked you if you were Jewish at some point. They do not proselytize outside of Judaism, but can be quite aggressive within it. To that goal, they've founded centers around the world, and may live far from any established Orthodox community at all. They obviously choose to interact with many outside of their own groups, are more MO in terms of gender segregation, and are big fans of the internet and technology, which allows them greater outreach. Other Hasidic groups tend to be uncomfortable with them, and they don't have much social mixing between the two.

Haredim and Zionism - Wikipedia

Groups which do not recognize Israel

Flyer in Meah Shearimwhich declares "No entry to Zionists!"
There are a number Haredi groups which not only oppose Zionism, but also do not recognize the State of Israel. Among them are the Hasidic sects of Shomer Emunim (and its offshoots,Toldos Aharon, and Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok), Mishkenos HoRoim, and Dushinsky. In July 1947, Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky, Chief Rabbi of the Jerusalem-based Edah HaChareidis, declared to the United Nations his "definite opposition to a Jewish state in any part of Palestine". The largest anti-Zionist Hasidic group is Satmar, which has around 130,000 adherents worldwide. The group’s position was crystallized by their charismatic leader, Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, who authored comprehensive and polemic tracts detailing his opposition to Zionism. He encouraged his followers who lived in the "Holy Land" to form self-sufficient communities, rejecting social state benefits, and not to vote in general elections. Anxious not to be viewed as supportive of the actions of the secular Israeli government, which he viewed as an abomination, he instructed people not to visit the Western Wall and other holy sites which had been captured by Israel in the 1967 war. One of the most extreme sects is the Neturei Karta. Formed in 1938 as a breakaway from Agudath Israel, its 5,000 members are based mainly in Jerusalem and Beit Shemesh. A faction within the group openly supports the PLO and Hamas, and calls for the "peaceful dismantling of the Zionist entity".

Groups opposing secular Zionism, but recognizing Israel
The Agudat Israel is an international organization (with an Israeli association) of various Haredi groups, mainly from the Lithuanian yeshiva communities and Hasidic groups such as Ger and Belz. It initially adopted a stance of disregard for the State of Israel, motivated by pragmatism. They attempted to influence the politics of the State of Israel from within, by participating in national elections and sending their representatives to the Israeli Knesset, but still did not take full part in it by not serving in its military, and not celebrating any of the State's official holidays. Today, the organization has shifted over time to somewhat supportive of the state, although not officially recognizing itself as a pro-Zionist party. An example of this is the revolutionary Hesder legions in the IDF, which is a unit that combines religious studies and national service, designed specially for Haredi Jews. The Agudat Israel party in the Knesset is represented as United Torah Judaism, a collective party of Agudat Israel and Degel HaTorah. It tries to influence the Knesset with a pro-Judaism outlook, by mainly focusing on funding for Jewish education (yeshivas), exemption from military service for Haredi yeshiva students, and trying to strengthen Israel's Jewish identity.

They're not Satmarer. Satmar were never Zionist, and don't support the political state of Israel, but they don't protest against it either.

Those litvakers (not hasidim) above are Neturei Karta - and there's no chance there are 10,000 of them in existence, let alone at that protest.

 

[louie888]

They're not Satmarer. Satmar were never Zionist, and don't support the political state of Israel, but they don't protest against it either.

False! Pretty much as usual with y'all.

More than 3,000 followers of the Satmar Rebbe demonstrate outside Israeli Consulate in Manhattan over Israeli prime minister's claims that he serves as emissary of the Jewish people.
read more: Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews protest in NYC over Netanyahu's speech

 

[theDoctorisIn]

They're not Satmarer. Satmar were never Zionist, and don't support the political state of Israel, but they don't protest against it either.

False! Pretty much as usual with y'all.

More than 3,000 followers of the Satmar Rebbe demonstrate outside Israeli Consulate in Manhattan over Israeli prime minister's claims that he serves as emissary of the Jewish people.
read more: Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews protest in NYC over Netanyahu's speech

You seem to be confusing two different protests, that took place a decade apart.

Your OP is about a protest in 2005, and this link is about a different protest in 2015.

 

[louie888]

I know. You said Satmar did not protest. I corrected you.