Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

Israel has the necessary defined territory. In fact, every single day, Israel defends that border.

A line of goons with guns does not make an international border.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The people in The Gaza Strip have no foreign identification requirement.

Israel still controls the population registry in Gaza and Israeli IDs are required.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In fact, every single day, Israel defends that border. And even any Gaza knows where Israel begins because they try to penetrate on a frequent basis.

There is no border around Gaza. That is just Israel's cage.

 

[Hollie]

A line of goons with guns does not make an international border.

You had a revelation?

 

[Hollie]

There is no border around Gaza.

Not one of the “new states” created by the Treaty of Lausanne?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

pf hope you post these two items on the 9/11 thread,im tired of wasting my time on those idiots fools.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is something I did not say or imply. The "Right of Self-Determination" is almost always competitive in its application. The "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by one group cannot be implemented in such a way as to interfere with the "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by another group; except by mutual agreement.

You are reading the "Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination" as if it uniquely applied to the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Why would it not apply to them? Why are they an exception to the norm?

(COMMENT)

Of course the Arab Palestinians have the same "right" as the"Israeli." But as stated in the BLUF, supra, the Arab Palestinians cannot come along after the fact and try to usurp the already implemented "right" of the Israeli.

I have the right to walk down the path. But I do not have the "right" to push the Palestinians off the path. My "right" does not interfere with the right of the Palestinian.

This becomes especially important when we look at the history (post-San Remo Convention 1920) of inviting the Arab Palestinians to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, which the rejected a half-dozen times.

How many times did the Arab Palestinians reject participation in the post-War programs? Did the Arab Palestinians reject the invitation of the UN Palestine Commission on the matter of creating an Arab State?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no border around Gaza.

Not one of the “new states” created by the Treaty of Lausanne?

(COMMENT)

Now that is a great example of denying reality.

The unconscious defense mechanism of denying the existence of painful facts.This technique enables an individual to escape from intolerable thoughts, wishes, actions, or events and the anxiety which they produce. In denying their existence he is not lying or malingering, nor does he deliberately repudiate the ideas or consciously dismiss them from mind. He simply fails to perceive that they exist.
SOURCE:

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is something I did not say or imply. The "Right of Self-Determination" is almost always competitive in its application. The "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by one group cannot be implemented in such a way as to interfere with the "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by another group; except by mutual agreement.

You are reading the "Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination" as if it uniquely applied to the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Why would it not apply to them? Why are they an exception to the norm?

(COMMENT)

Of course the Arab Palestinians have the same "right" as the"Israeli." But as stated in the BLUF, supra, the Arab Palestinians cannot come along after the fact and try to usurp the already implemented "right" of the Israeli.

I have the right to walk down the path. But I do not have the "right" to push the Palestinians off the path. My "right" does not interfere with the right of the Palestinian.

This becomes especially important when we look at the history (post-San Remo Convention 1920) of inviting the Arab Palestinians to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, which the rejected a half-dozen times.

How many times did the Arab Palestinians reject participation in the post-War programs? Did the Arab Palestinians reject the invitation of the UN Palestine Commission on the matter of creating an Arab State?

Most Respectfully,
R

Everything offered to the Palestinians, then and now, require them to surrender.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Today, the Arab Palestinians have more sovereignty (self-governing territory) then they have had in the last thousand years. The only loss of sovereignty they have suffered → is that which they rejected.

sur-ren-der /sa'rendar/ v. cease resistance to an enemy or opponent and submit to their authority: give up or hand over (a person, right, or possession), typically on compulsion or demandy.

Everything offered to the Palestinians, then and now, require them to surrender.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians surrender nothing. It was the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic (in this specific case) that essentially surrendered territory outside Turkey.

The Arab Palestinians surrendered nothing. It first must have been theirs before they could surrender it. It was never theirs to begin with. This "surrender" business it nothing more then a false rationalization to imply some sovereign right. Sovereignty is NOT a "right." The government either supreme power or authority over the territory, for which no other state can claim or supersede, OR it is not a true self-governing territory.

The Arab Palestinians cannot claim to have had a government based on autonomous of self-governing rule in the Region for a thousand years. And during the 20th Century, the central authority all the land east of the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Frontier underwent major changes.

​

The idea that the Arab Palestinians have some extraordinary claim to any of the territory that the Allied Powers designated as subject to the Mandate for Palestine is simply unsubstantiated.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
SOURCE: VOX Maps • Treaty of Lausanne

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arab Palestinians surrendered nothing. It first must have been theirs before they could surrender it.

There you go again. You are back to Israel's BS talking point that there was no Palestine.

Why do you carry water for Israel?

 

[toastman]

The Arab Palestinians surrendered nothing. It first must have been theirs before they could surrender it.

There you go again. You are back to Israel's BS talking point that there was no Palestine.

Why do you carry water for Israel?

Why do you carry water and spread lies about Palestine ? What do you get out of it ? Palestine was never a country and there’s nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise . Making up history will not alter this fact

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: This is something I did not say or imply. The "Right of Self-Determination" is almost always competitive in its application. The "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by one group cannot be implemented in such a way as to interfere with the "freedom" of Self-Determination applied by another group; except by mutual agreement.

You are reading the "Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination" as if it uniquely applied to the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Why would it not apply to them? Why are they an exception to the norm?

(COMMENT)

Of course the Arab Palestinians have the same "right" as the"Israeli." But as stated in the BLUF, supra, the Arab Palestinians cannot come along after the fact and try to usurp the already implemented "right" of the Israeli.

I have the right to walk down the path. But I do not have the "right" to push the Palestinians off the path. My "right" does not interfere with the right of the Palestinian.

This becomes especially important when we look at the history (post-San Remo Convention 1920) of inviting the Arab Palestinians to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions, which the rejected a half-dozen times.

How many times did the Arab Palestinians reject participation in the post-War programs? Did the Arab Palestinians reject the invitation of the UN Palestine Commission on the matter of creating an Arab State?

Most Respectfully,
R

Everything offered to the Palestinians, then and now, require them to surrender.

Such silly melodrama.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Partition & Independence
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: To my knowledge, there is no official Israeli Government Agency in the Gaza Strip. Are you saying this is wrong? - or - Are you talking about the Border Control Offices on the Israeli side.

The people in The Gaza Strip have no foreign identification requirement.

Israel still controls the population registry in Gaza and Israeli IDs are required.

(COMMENT)

I think you are correct in that if you want to transit into or across Israel, you have to have valid documentation.

But in 2005, I believe all Israeli government functions ended inside the Gaza Strip. HAMAS does not require Israeli documentation (to the best of my knowledge).

I'm surprised? Totally! What Israeli Documentation does HAMAS require?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

- or - Are you talking about the Border Control Offices on the Israeli side.

Israel has Border Control Offices but there is no border.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm surprised? Totally! What Israeli Documentation does HAMAS require?

It doesn't matter. Israel controls everything.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Border Crossings
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I simply do not know what in the hell you might be taking about. See the Ground Truth!

- or - Are you talking about the Border Control Offices on the Israeli side.

Israel has Border Control Offices but there is no border.
You can't make this stuff up.

(COMMENT)

It is my understanding that there exists:

◈ Three Border Crossings between Israel and Jordan: ​

​

✦ Yitzhak Rabin Terminal/Wadi Araba Crossing, ​

✦ King Hussein Bridge (Allenby) Terminal​

✦ Jordan River/Sheikh Hussein Crossing.​

​

◈ Two main crossing points on the Israel and Gaza Border: ​

​

✦ Erez Crossing​

✦ Karni Crossing ​

And the MOI Immigration and Border Authority have numerous other crossing points:

◈ Between Israel and Lebanon​

✦ Rosh Hanikra​

◈ Between Israel and Syria​

✦ Quneitra​

◈ Marine and Port Border control services​

◈ Airport Traffic Border control services ​

I just cannot imagine how you must sound to an Israeli or Arab Palestinians that use these points:

◈ UN personnel, students, clerics, and other populations belonging to the Druze community in the Golan Heights​

◈ Authorized foreign workers and tourist traffic and those engaged in archeology, anthropology programs​

◈ Those involved in mineral and geological survey services and other academic pursuits​

◈ Docking commercial sea vessels, passenger ships, private yachts and the shipyard activity​

◈ International Flights and Emergency Service, and diplomatic movements as necessary​

◈ etc (all the things I forgot to mention)​

​

Now I've already mentioned the primary documents that address the essential International Borders and Boundaries, so your thoughts on the matter is getting less valid by the minute.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Border Crossings
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I simply do not know what in the hell you might be taking about. See the Ground Truth!

- or - Are you talking about the Border Control Offices on the Israeli side.

Israel has Border Control Offices but there is no border.
You can't make this stuff up.

(COMMENT)

It is my understanding that there exists:

◈ Three Border Crossings between Israel and Jordan: ​

​

✦ Yitzhak Rabin Terminal/Wadi Araba Crossing, ​

✦ King Hussein Bridge (Allenby) Terminal​

✦ Jordan River/Sheikh Hussein Crossing.​

​

◈ Two main crossing points on the Israel and Gaza Border: ​

​

✦ Erez Crossing​

✦ Karni Crossing ​

And the MOI Immigration and Border Authority have numerous other crossing points:

◈ Between Israel and Lebanon​

✦ Rosh Hanikra​

◈ Between Israel and Syria​

✦ Quneitra​

◈ Marine and Port Border control services​

◈ Airport Traffic Border control services ​

I just cannot imagine how you must sound to an Israeli or Arab Palestinians that use these points:

◈ UN personnel, students, clerics, and other populations belonging to the Druze community in the Golan Heights​

◈ Authorized foreign workers and tourist traffic and those engaged in archeology, anthropology programs​

◈ Those involved in mineral and geological survey services and other academic pursuits​

◈ Docking commercial sea vessels, passenger ships, private yachts and the shipyard activity​

◈ International Flights and Emergency Service, and diplomatic movements as necessary​

◈ etc (all the things I forgot to mention)​

​

Now I've already mentioned the primary documents that address the essential International Borders and Boundaries, so your thoughts on the matter is getting less valid by the minute.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, you listed checkpoints. Checkpoints can be anywhere.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Territorial Border Crossings
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I simply do not know what in the hell you might be taking about. See the Ground Truth!

- or - Are you talking about the Border Control Offices on the Israeli side.

Israel has Border Control Offices but there is no border.
You can't make this stuff up.

(COMMENT)

It is my understanding that there exists:

◈ Three Border Crossings between Israel and Jordan: ​

​

✦ Yitzhak Rabin Terminal/Wadi Araba Crossing, ​

✦ King Hussein Bridge (Allenby) Terminal​

✦ Jordan River/Sheikh Hussein Crossing.​

​

◈ Two main crossing points on the Israel and Gaza Border: ​

​

✦ Erez Crossing​

✦ Karni Crossing ​

And the MOI Immigration and Border Authority have numerous other crossing points:

◈ Between Israel and Lebanon​

✦ Rosh Hanikra​

◈ Between Israel and Syria​

✦ Quneitra​

◈ Marine and Port Border control services​

◈ Airport Traffic Border control services ​

I just cannot imagine how you must sound to an Israeli or Arab Palestinians that use these points:

◈ UN personnel, students, clerics, and other populations belonging to the Druze community in the Golan Heights​

◈ Authorized foreign workers and tourist traffic and those engaged in archeology, anthropology programs​

◈ Those involved in mineral and geological survey services and other academic pursuits​

◈ Docking commercial sea vessels, passenger ships, private yachts and the shipyard activity​

◈ International Flights and Emergency Service, and diplomatic movements as necessary​

◈ etc (all the things I forgot to mention)​

​

Now I've already mentioned the primary documents that address the essential International Borders and Boundaries, so your thoughts on the matter is getting less valid by the minute.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, you listed checkpoints. Checkpoints can be anywhere.

Checkpoints are required with hostile, dangerous Islamic terrorists who wish to do you harm.

 

[Hollie]

It doesn't matter. Israel controls everything.

You poor, dear.