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I don’t see that the whole world calls them “Occupied Palestinian Territories”Is that why the whole world calls them Occupied Palestinian Territories?the Question of Occupation over the West Bank and Jerusalem was ultimately set by the “default rule theory” when the Jordanians abandon the territory and leaving the rule to the Israelis by default.
Where are you looking?I don't see Self-Determination listed as a means of acquiring territory.The initial territorial Rule established by Israel in 1948 was by "Self-Determination,"
Got a link?
Who occupied who in 1948? Please post a linkIndeed, there is the 1948 occupation and the 1967 occupation.Article 42 Hague Regulation Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
Link to what ? Do you even know how to read ??I don't see Self-Determination listed as a means of acquiring territory.The initial territorial Rule established by Israel in 1948 was by "Self-Determination,"
Got a link?
the Question of Occupation over the West Bank and Jerusalem was ultimately set by the “default rule theory” when the Jordanians abandon the territory and leaving the rule to the Israelis by default.
(COMMENT)Is that why the whole world calls them Occupied Palestinian Territories?
It was because the Arab Palestinians had no established government or associated infrastructure on the ground. The Israelis were already in place and with the right infrastructure to facilitate a governing body.
(COMMENT)That was due to the British violations until 1948.
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
- “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
SOURCE: A/AC.14/8 UK History of Administration 2 October 1947
The initial territorial Rule established by Israel in 1948 was by "Self-Determination,"
(COMMENT)I don't see Self-Determination listed as a means of acquiring territory.
Got a link?
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:The principal obligations of the mandatory Power are defined in Article 2 of the Mandate, which reads as follows:
This Article appears to give equal weight to three obligations:
- “The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”
(i) the creation of conditions which would secure the establishment of the Jewish national home;(ii) the creation of conditions which would secure the development of self-governing institutions; and(iii) the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.SOURCE: A/AC.14/8 UK History of Administration 2 October 1947
You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
THREE RESPONSES in ONE
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: You have these claims embedded in your head, and there is nothing that will help you to unravel the truth. Given that political truths are in the eye of the beholder.
the Question of Occupation over the West Bank and Jerusalem was ultimately set by the “default rule theory” when the Jordanians abandon the territory and leaving the rule to the Israelis by default.(COMMENT)Is that why the whole world calls them Occupied Palestinian Territories?
The original terminology of "Occupied Palestinian Territories" included the legacy meaning of "Palestine" → which was the short title given the territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. The short title was used since the inception of the Palestine Order in Coucil (1922).
The term "Palestine" in the phrase "Occupied Palestinian Territories" has nothing to do with the territories belonging to some undefined state other than the artificial Government of Palestine (UK).
So many uninformed people have used this phrasing believing it establishes some formal connection and sovereignty to the Arab Palestinian people that have yet formed a Government that could "stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world" (League of Nations Covenant - Article 22); even given all the international donor contributions and the availability to reach out to any nation or organization to render assistance. To this day, there is a question as to the true functionality of either the Gaza Strip Government or the Ramallah Government (or even the coalition of the two) to the test of a viable and going concern (as a sovereign state). Both the Gaza Strip Government or the Ramallah Government do not speak with one voice in reality. A fact that is often ignored in most political, diplomatic, and laypersons discussions. It is rarely even mentioned in all the "pro-Palestinian Youtube videos" posted in this discussion group.
If one applies the strict compliance concept to the "Question of Palestine" in its current status, the Gaza Government is one quasi-sovereign entity of a terrorist state and the Ramallah Government is sovereign only unto Area "A."
It was because the Arab Palestinians had no established government or associated infrastructure on the ground. The Israelis were already in place and with the right infrastructure to facilitate a governing body.(COMMENT)That was due to the British violations until 1948.
The British Administration prior to 1948 had it troubles. But the outcome was largely due to a lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC or AKA: Arab Palestinians). When you make these nebulous and unidentified claims of "violations" → you need to make it clear, what the charge is and what law was violated. Otherwise, it is just so much noise.
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
- “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
The initial territorial Rule established by Israel in 1948 was by "Self-Determination,"(COMMENT)I don't see Self-Determination listed as a means of acquiring territory.
Got a link?
First, there is nothing in the 19th or 20th Century Customary International Law that says the world powers must follow your (or any Arab Palestinians) interpretation of post-War development - or - what should have occurred 'vs' what actually happened in terms of international understanding and acceptance.
Second: There was a "Mandate."
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:The principal obligations of the mandatory Power are defined in Article 2 of the Mandate, which reads as follows:
- “The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”
This Article appears to give equal weight to three obligations:(i) the creation of conditions which would secure the establishment of the Jewish national home;(ii) the creation of conditions which would secure the development of self-governing institutions; and(iii) the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.
Self-Determination is not a legal concept related to the acquisition of territory. It is something greater drawn from the strength of the people involved. The Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno on 25 April 1920 essentially authored the political outline for the Mandate. Whether → in the end, it was successful leadership or not, is not the issue. It was in their power to take the action → and they did. This was a direct by-product from the Paris Peace Conference in 1919.
(EPILOG)
The Arab Palestinians of the early 20th Century did not have the strength in the will or the people to accomplish their objectives. That was true in 1919 and 1920, when the Allied Powers and the Peace Talks were formalized and the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers set the framework for the post-War territorial distribution and principle political concerns. In point of fact, the entirety of the regional area we are discussing was controlled by a military administration, under the title of Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, during the Paris Peace Talks and the San Remo conference of the Supreme Council. And still today, the Arab Palestinians demand political concessions that can never found acceptable.
◈ Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people.◈ Palestine symbolizes the resistance that shall continue until liberation is accomplished, until the return is fulfilled and until a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital.
Most Respectfully,
R
Indeed!Self-Determination is not a legal concept related to the acquisition of territory.
Indeed, identify ''all of their (Pal) institutions'' which were dismantled during the mandate period.You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
THREE RESPONSES in ONE
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: You have these claims embedded in your head, and there is nothing that will help you to unravel the truth. Given that political truths are in the eye of the beholder.
the Question of Occupation over the West Bank and Jerusalem was ultimately set by the “default rule theory” when the Jordanians abandon the territory and leaving the rule to the Israelis by default.(COMMENT)Is that why the whole world calls them Occupied Palestinian Territories?
The original terminology of "Occupied Palestinian Territories" included the legacy meaning of "Palestine" → which was the short title given the territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. The short title was used since the inception of the Palestine Order in Coucil (1922).
The term "Palestine" in the phrase "Occupied Palestinian Territories" has nothing to do with the territories belonging to some undefined state other than the artificial Government of Palestine (UK).
So many uninformed people have used this phrasing believing it establishes some formal connection and sovereignty to the Arab Palestinian people that have yet formed a Government that could "stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world" (League of Nations Covenant - Article 22); even given all the international donor contributions and the availability to reach out to any nation or organization to render assistance. To this day, there is a question as to the true functionality of either the Gaza Strip Government or the Ramallah Government (or even the coalition of the two) to the test of a viable and going concern (as a sovereign state). Both the Gaza Strip Government or the Ramallah Government do not speak with one voice in reality. A fact that is often ignored in most political, diplomatic, and laypersons discussions. It is rarely even mentioned in all the "pro-Palestinian Youtube videos" posted in this discussion group.
If one applies the strict compliance concept to the "Question of Palestine" in its current status, the Gaza Government is one quasi-sovereign entity of a terrorist state and the Ramallah Government is sovereign only unto Area "A."
It was because the Arab Palestinians had no established government or associated infrastructure on the ground. The Israelis were already in place and with the right infrastructure to facilitate a governing body.(COMMENT)That was due to the British violations until 1948.
The British Administration prior to 1948 had it troubles. But the outcome was largely due to a lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC or AKA: Arab Palestinians). When you make these nebulous and unidentified claims of "violations" → you need to make it clear, what the charge is and what law was violated. Otherwise, it is just so much noise.
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
- “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
The initial territorial Rule established by Israel in 1948 was by "Self-Determination,"(COMMENT)I don't see Self-Determination listed as a means of acquiring territory.
Got a link?
First, there is nothing in the 19th or 20th Century Customary International Law that says the world powers must follow your (or any Arab Palestinians) interpretation of post-War development - or - what should have occurred 'vs' what actually happened in terms of international understanding and acceptance.
Second: There was a "Mandate."
Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:The principal obligations of the mandatory Power are defined in Article 2 of the Mandate, which reads as follows:
- “The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”
This Article appears to give equal weight to three obligations:(i) the creation of conditions which would secure the establishment of the Jewish national home;(ii) the creation of conditions which would secure the development of self-governing institutions; and(iii) the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.
Self-Determination is not a legal concept related to the acquisition of territory. It is something greater drawn from the strength of the people involved. The Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno on 25 April 1920 essentially authored the political outline for the Mandate. Whether → in the end, it was successful leadership or not, is not the issue. It was in their power to take the action → and they did. This was a direct by-product from the Paris Peace Conference in 1919.
(EPILOG)
The Arab Palestinians of the early 20th Century did not have the strength in the will or the people to accomplish their objectives. That was true in 1919 and 1920, when the Allied Powers and the Peace Talks were formalized and the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers set the framework for the post-War territorial distribution and principle political concerns. In point of fact, the entirety of the regional area we are discussing was controlled by a military administration, under the title of Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, during the Paris Peace Talks and the San Remo conference of the Supreme Council. And still today, the Arab Palestinians demand political concessions that can never found acceptable.
◈ Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people.◈ Palestine symbolizes the resistance that shall continue until liberation is accomplished, until the return is fulfilled and until a fully sovereign state is established with Jerusalem as its capital.
Most Respectfully,
R
No surprise that they did not create any government. You just call it incompetence.
(COMMENT)You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.
No surprise that they did not create any government. You just call it incompetence.
palwatch.org
palwatch.org
Is slime the only thing you can post?RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: I think this is part of your perceptual problem. While I can agree in principle that no country or people holds a perfect record in making political, economic, industrial, diplomatic and military (etc) decisions, in the case of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC or AKA: Arab Palestinians); nearly every decision they made was not in the best interest of the people or the potential for nation-building.
(COMMENT)You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.
No surprise that they did not create any government. You just call it incompetence.
You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions. While everyone concerned or involved in the development (1920 to the present) shared some of the responsibility for the failure of the Arab Palestinian people. It was almost as if the "failures" of the Arab Palestinian were in fact the outcome of their intentional self-determination (political/diplomatic suicide). And even though this might sound absurd, suicide is a behavior quite well known in the Arab Palestinian culture.
I was reading the book, The Daughters of Olive, and I "first" noticed the dedication. I noticed how elegant the presentation of the book imparted.
Dedicated to
The Great Spirits of the Martyrs
Dr. Abdulaziz al-Rentissi,
Sheikh Ahmed Yaseen
and
The Daughters of Olive
It was a book dedicated to the nine courageous women suicide bombers. That was not to include the Special Note on everyone's favorite:
A special note on
Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi
Date of Martyrdom: 11th March, 1978
View attachment 434683
"Point your guns in only one direction-your enemy -Israel," urged Martyr Dalal Al Mughrabi in her final wish just before she laid down her life for the liberation of her occupied homeland, Palestine.Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi was the first female commander in the history of the struggle of the Palestinian nation against the Zionist aggressors. She became a legend of courage and a symbol of resistance and martyrdom for the Palestinian nation for many years.
I noticed how much it reminded me of another Iconic terrorist:
Footnote
Social Research Vol. 75, No. 2, Martyrdom, Self-Sacrifice, and Self-Denial (SUMMER 2008), pp. 395-416 (22 pages)
Published By: The Johns Hopkins University Press
References
- Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Nov 07, 2019 · Death as a "Martyr" for Allah and for "Palestine" - during terror attacks and other violent confrontations with Israel - has been promoted as an ideal by the Palestinian Authority for years, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. The elevated status "Martyrs" enjoy in the PA was recently stressed by a host on official PA TV, who bragged that "Martyrdom in Palestine is unique," because a Martyr's …Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Death as a "Martyr" for Allah has been promoted as an ideal by the PA for years- Family Of Palestinian Suicide Bomber Celebrates Her ...
.memri.org/tv/family-palestinian-suicide-bomber-hanadi-jaradat-father...
On October 8, 2019, Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jihad) aired a report about Hanadi Jaradat, a Palestinian woman from Jenin who carried out a suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa on October 4, 2003. Hanadi’s mother, who was interviewed in the report, praised Allah for having given Hanadi what she had asked for, and Hanadi’s brother said that his father had handed out …- Why do some terrorist organizations use suicide bombing ...
gppreview.com/2020/05/11/terrorist-organizations-use-suicide-bombing-others-not
May 11, 2020 · As Palestinian animosity toward Israel increased in the early 2000s, so too did support for radical groups and suicide tactics. Culture of Martyrdom. The most convincing explanation is that suicide terrorism exploits a transnational ideological reverence for martyrdom.- Martyrdom in the Context of the Palestinian National ...
.palestine-studies.org/resources/special-focus/martyrdom-context...
Not all martyrs were combatants or partisans. A young Palestinian boy, Ahmad Hassam Yusuf Musa, killed near Ramallah in 2008 was, like all Palestinians killed by Israel, remembered as a martyr. His poster does not carry the insignia of any political faction or any liberation slogans.- PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are ...
Dec 17, 2020 · In two recent broadcasts, the PA reiterated its internal narrative that it tries to hide from the international community: All of Israel is Palestinian land - including Safed, Haifa, Acre, and Jaffa: [Official PA TV, Good Morning Jerusalem, Dec. …PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are settlers; Israel's demise is certain | PMW Analysis
Palestinians have “natural right” to “fight in Haifa, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva”
Most Respectfully,
R
You keep shoveling Israeli shit.You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions.
Emotional outbursts that would embarrass a 12 year old.Is slime the only thing you can post?RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: I think this is part of your perceptual problem. While I can agree in principle that no country or people holds a perfect record in making political, economic, industrial, diplomatic and military (etc) decisions, in the case of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC or AKA: Arab Palestinians); nearly every decision they made was not in the best interest of the people or the potential for nation-building.
(COMMENT)You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.
No surprise that they did not create any government. You just call it incompetence.
You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions. While everyone concerned or involved in the development (1920 to the present) shared some of the responsibility for the failure of the Arab Palestinian people. It was almost as if the "failures" of the Arab Palestinian were in fact the outcome of their intentional self-determination (political/diplomatic suicide). And even though this might sound absurd, suicide is a behavior quite well known in the Arab Palestinian culture.
I was reading the book, The Daughters of Olive, and I "first" noticed the dedication. I noticed how elegant the presentation of the book imparted.
Dedicated to
The Great Spirits of the Martyrs
Dr. Abdulaziz al-Rentissi,
Sheikh Ahmed Yaseen
and
The Daughters of Olive
It was a book dedicated to the nine courageous women suicide bombers. That was not to include the Special Note on everyone's favorite:
A special note on
Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi
Date of Martyrdom: 11th March, 1978
View attachment 434683
"Point your guns in only one direction-your enemy -Israel," urged Martyr Dalal Al Mughrabi in her final wish just before she laid down her life for the liberation of her occupied homeland, Palestine.Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi was the first female commander in the history of the struggle of the Palestinian nation against the Zionist aggressors. She became a legend of courage and a symbol of resistance and martyrdom for the Palestinian nation for many years.
I noticed how much it reminded me of another Iconic terrorist:
Footnote
Social Research Vol. 75, No. 2, Martyrdom, Self-Sacrifice, and Self-Denial (SUMMER 2008), pp. 395-416 (22 pages)
Published By: The Johns Hopkins University Press
References
- Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Nov 07, 2019 · Death as a "Martyr" for Allah and for "Palestine" - during terror attacks and other violent confrontations with Israel - has been promoted as an ideal by the Palestinian Authority for years, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. The elevated status "Martyrs" enjoy in the PA was recently stressed by a host on official PA TV, who bragged that "Martyrdom in Palestine is unique," because a Martyr's …Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Death as a "Martyr" for Allah has been promoted as an ideal by the PA for years- Family Of Palestinian Suicide Bomber Celebrates Her ...
.memri.org/tv/family-palestinian-suicide-bomber-hanadi-jaradat-father...
On October 8, 2019, Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jihad) aired a report about Hanadi Jaradat, a Palestinian woman from Jenin who carried out a suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa on October 4, 2003. Hanadi’s mother, who was interviewed in the report, praised Allah for having given Hanadi what she had asked for, and Hanadi’s brother said that his father had handed out …- Why do some terrorist organizations use suicide bombing ...
gppreview.com/2020/05/11/terrorist-organizations-use-suicide-bombing-others-not
May 11, 2020 · As Palestinian animosity toward Israel increased in the early 2000s, so too did support for radical groups and suicide tactics. Culture of Martyrdom. The most convincing explanation is that suicide terrorism exploits a transnational ideological reverence for martyrdom.- Martyrdom in the Context of the Palestinian National ...
.palestine-studies.org/resources/special-focus/martyrdom-context...
Not all martyrs were combatants or partisans. A young Palestinian boy, Ahmad Hassam Yusuf Musa, killed near Ramallah in 2008 was, like all Palestinians killed by Israel, remembered as a martyr. His poster does not carry the insignia of any political faction or any liberation slogans.- PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are ...
Dec 17, 2020 · In two recent broadcasts, the PA reiterated its internal narrative that it tries to hide from the international community: All of Israel is Palestinian land - including Safed, Haifa, Acre, and Jaffa: [Official PA TV, Good Morning Jerusalem, Dec. …PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are settlers; Israel's demise is certain | PMW Analysis
Palestinians have “natural right” to “fight in Haifa, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva”
Most Respectfully,
R
You keep shoveling Israeli shit.You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions.
(COMMENT)Is slime the only thing you can post?
You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions.
(COMMENT)You keep shoveling Israeli shit.
Notice how every time Rocco dismantles every single one of your ridiculous posts, all you can do is come up with your usual ‘ shovelling Israeli shit’ reply.Is slime the only thing you can post?RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: I think this is part of your perceptual problem. While I can agree in principle that no country or people holds a perfect record in making political, economic, industrial, diplomatic and military (etc) decisions, in the case of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC or AKA: Arab Palestinians); nearly every decision they made was not in the best interest of the people or the potential for nation-building.
(COMMENT)You have to remember that Palestine was under military rule, by the worlds superpower, all during the mandate period. All of their institution were dismantled and their leaders were arrested, exiled. or killed.
No surprise that they did not create any government. You just call it incompetence.
You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions. While everyone concerned or involved in the development (1920 to the present) shared some of the responsibility for the failure of the Arab Palestinian people. It was almost as if the "failures" of the Arab Palestinian were in fact the outcome of their intentional self-determination (political/diplomatic suicide). And even though this might sound absurd, suicide is a behavior quite well known in the Arab Palestinian culture.
I was reading the book, The Daughters of Olive, and I "first" noticed the dedication. I noticed how elegant the presentation of the book imparted.
Dedicated to
The Great Spirits of the Martyrs
Dr. Abdulaziz al-Rentissi,
Sheikh Ahmed Yaseen
and
The Daughters of Olive
It was a book dedicated to the nine courageous women suicide bombers. That was not to include the Special Note on everyone's favorite:
A special note on
Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi
Date of Martyrdom: 11th March, 1978
View attachment 434683
"Point your guns in only one direction-your enemy -Israel," urged Martyr Dalal Al Mughrabi in her final wish just before she laid down her life for the liberation of her occupied homeland, Palestine.Martyr Dalal Al-Mughrabi was the first female commander in the history of the struggle of the Palestinian nation against the Zionist aggressors. She became a legend of courage and a symbol of resistance and martyrdom for the Palestinian nation for many years.
I noticed how much it reminded me of another Iconic terrorist:
Footnote
Social Research Vol. 75, No. 2, Martyrdom, Self-Sacrifice, and Self-Denial (SUMMER 2008), pp. 395-416 (22 pages)
Published By: The Johns Hopkins University Press
References
- Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Nov 07, 2019 · Death as a "Martyr" for Allah and for "Palestine" - during terror attacks and other violent confrontations with Israel - has been promoted as an ideal by the Palestinian Authority for years, as documented by Palestinian Media Watch. The elevated status "Martyrs" enjoy in the PA was recently stressed by a host on official PA TV, who bragged that "Martyrdom in Palestine is unique," because a Martyr's …Why is Martyrdom-death “unique in Palestine”? | PMW Analysis
Death as a "Martyr" for Allah has been promoted as an ideal by the PA for years- Family Of Palestinian Suicide Bomber Celebrates Her ...
.memri.org/tv/family-palestinian-suicide-bomber-hanadi-jaradat-father...
On October 8, 2019, Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Palestine – Islamic Jihad) aired a report about Hanadi Jaradat, a Palestinian woman from Jenin who carried out a suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa on October 4, 2003. Hanadi’s mother, who was interviewed in the report, praised Allah for having given Hanadi what she had asked for, and Hanadi’s brother said that his father had handed out …- Why do some terrorist organizations use suicide bombing ...
gppreview.com/2020/05/11/terrorist-organizations-use-suicide-bombing-others-not
May 11, 2020 · As Palestinian animosity toward Israel increased in the early 2000s, so too did support for radical groups and suicide tactics. Culture of Martyrdom. The most convincing explanation is that suicide terrorism exploits a transnational ideological reverence for martyrdom.- Martyrdom in the Context of the Palestinian National ...
.palestine-studies.org/resources/special-focus/martyrdom-context...
Not all martyrs were combatants or partisans. A young Palestinian boy, Ahmad Hassam Yusuf Musa, killed near Ramallah in 2008 was, like all Palestinians killed by Israel, remembered as a martyr. His poster does not carry the insignia of any political faction or any liberation slogans.- PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are ...
Dec 17, 2020 · In two recent broadcasts, the PA reiterated its internal narrative that it tries to hide from the international community: All of Israel is Palestinian land - including Safed, Haifa, Acre, and Jaffa: [Official PA TV, Good Morning Jerusalem, Dec. …PA: All Israel is “our land Palestine”; All Israelis are settlers; Israel's demise is certain | PMW Analysis
Palestinians have “natural right” to “fight in Haifa, Jaffa, and Be’er Sheva”
Most Respectfully,
R
You keep shoveling Israeli shit.You can pretend all you want that the development of the Arab Palestinian People or their ability to build a nation, since 1920, was retarded because the Arab Palestinians refused to participate in creating self-governing institutions.
Indeed, there is the 1948 occupation and the 1967 occupation.Article 42 Hague RegulationTerritory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.... but enough about the Hamas Charter and the history of Islamism.It is not about discrimination. It is about colonialism, occupation, and apartheid.RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: There is a huge difference between:
(Ω) The prevention of the Incitement to Violence and Hatred 'vs' Criminalizing Dissent(Ω) Pursuing the international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes Incitement to Discrimination and Hostility 'vs' Criminalizing Dissent
(COMMENT)CRIMINALIZING DISSENT: THE ATTACK ON BDS AND PRO-PALESTINIAN SPEECH
First, let's make it clear at the outset: "The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law." This is just fancy window dressing to cover for the fact that it is non-state actors that forge a form of economic coercion and intimidation, especially against the civilian citizenry, in the pursuit of political aims. The hidden agenda is the direct support of the violent counterpart factions.
(WHAT IS THE LAW)
Let's not twist this issue into something it is not. It is NOT an attack on free speech. (It is that simple.) And don't let them (BDS) kid you that it is.
◈ Article 20 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.◈ Article 4 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin, or which attempt to justify or promote racial hatred and discrimination in any form, and undertake to adopt immediate and positive measures designed to eradicate all incitement to, or acts of, such discrimination and, to this end, with due regard to the principles embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the rights expressly set forth in article 5 of this Convention, inter alia:◈ Article 5 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)In compliance with the fundamental obligations laid down in article 2 of this Convention, States Parties undertake to prohibit and to eliminate racial discrimination in all its forms and to guarantee the right of everyone, without distinction as to race, colour, or national or ethnic origin, to equality before the law, notably in the enjoyment of the following rights:(e) Economic, social and cultural rights, in particular:(i) The rights to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work, to protection against unemployment, to equal pay for equal work, to just and favourable remuneration;
The BDS Movement is a form of economic warfare with the intent of trying to impose economic sanctions against Israel. While the status and boundaries of the State of Palestine has not been resolved, the faction won the largest number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament (76 of 132) openly has a policy that Palestine (which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south) is an Arab Islamic land. They do not see the State of Israel holding any sovereignty. When you support the BDS Movement, you are essentially supporting the demise of the State of Israel.
The dispute here is between those that support the Arab Islamic Land 'vs' Israeli Sovereignty. To oppose the BDS Movement is to undertake to protections and rights of the regional minority (the Israelis) and to eliminate racial discrimination in all its forms and to guarantee the right of everyone, without distinction as to race, colour, or national or ethnic origin, to function under the International Covenants (CCPR/CERD).
(ONE FURTHER NOTE)
The goal of international law, relative to the Palestinian - Israeli dispute, is the maintain international peace and security. While most of the world (including those in the Middle East and North African Region) is working towards normalization, it is the Arab Palestinians the oppose such peaceful interaction. When you support the BDS Movement, you are on the side opposing normalization.
View attachment 434280
Most Respectfully,
R
And whenever I ask you to show any evidence that this is not true you start dancing.The pro-Palestinian generally agree that the entirety of the territory west of the Jordan River is rightly Palestine. And because they (the pro-Palestinians) generally agree to this, it must be true under the Consensus Theory of Truth.
That was quite a sidestep. You cut and pasted your usual slogans about ''colonialism, occupation, and apartheid'' aimed at Israel and as we see whenever you are tasked with providing specific examples, you fail to do so.Indeed, there is the 1948 occupation and the 1967 occupation.Article 42 Hague RegulationTerritory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
Ahh, the Hamas lady posts again.... but enough about the Hamas Charter and the history of Islamism.It is not about discrimination. It is about colonialism, occupation, and apartheid.RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: There is a huge difference between:
(Ω) The prevention of the Incitement to Violence and Hatred 'vs' Criminalizing Dissent(Ω) Pursuing the international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes Incitement to Discrimination and Hostility 'vs' Criminalizing Dissent
(COMMENT)CRIMINALIZING DISSENT: THE ATTACK ON BDS AND PRO-PALESTINIAN SPEECH
First, let's make it clear at the outset: "The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law." This is just fancy window dressing to cover for the fact that it is non-state actors that forge a form of economic coercion and intimidation, especially against the civilian citizenry, in the pursuit of political aims. The hidden agenda is the direct support of the violent counterpart factions.
(WHAT IS THE LAW)
Let's not twist this issue into something it is not. It is NOT an attack on free speech. (It is that simple.) And don't let them (BDS) kid you that it is.
◈ Article 20 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.◈ Article 4 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin, or which attempt to justify or promote racial hatred and discrimination in any form, and undertake to adopt immediate and positive measures designed to eradicate all incitement to, or acts of, such discrimination and, to this end, with due regard to the principles embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the rights expressly set forth in article 5 of this Convention, inter alia:◈ Article 5 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD)In compliance with the fundamental obligations laid down in article 2 of this Convention, States Parties undertake to prohibit and to eliminate racial discrimination in all its forms and to guarantee the right of everyone, without distinction as to race, colour, or national or ethnic origin, to equality before the law, notably in the enjoyment of the following rights:(e) Economic, social and cultural rights, in particular:(i) The rights to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work, to protection against unemployment, to equal pay for equal work, to just and favourable remuneration;
The BDS Movement is a form of economic warfare with the intent of trying to impose economic sanctions against Israel. While the status and boundaries of the State of Palestine has not been resolved, the faction won the largest number of seats in the Palestinian Parliament (76 of 132) openly has a policy that Palestine (which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south) is an Arab Islamic land. They do not see the State of Israel holding any sovereignty. When you support the BDS Movement, you are essentially supporting the demise of the State of Israel.
The dispute here is between those that support the Arab Islamic Land 'vs' Israeli Sovereignty. To oppose the BDS Movement is to undertake to protections and rights of the regional minority (the Israelis) and to eliminate racial discrimination in all its forms and to guarantee the right of everyone, without distinction as to race, colour, or national or ethnic origin, to function under the International Covenants (CCPR/CERD).
(ONE FURTHER NOTE)
The goal of international law, relative to the Palestinian - Israeli dispute, is the maintain international peace and security. While most of the world (including those in the Middle East and North African Region) is working towards normalization, it is the Arab Palestinians the oppose such peaceful interaction. When you support the BDS Movement, you are on the side opposing normalization.
View attachment 434280
Most Respectfully,
R
The pro-Palestinian generally agree that the entirety of the territory west of the Jordan River is rightly Palestine. And because they (the pro-Palestinians) generally agree to this, it must be true under the Consensus Theory of Truth.
(COMMENT)And whenever I ask you to show any evidence that this is not true you start dancing.
RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: And again, I don't think you can find such an example where I "start dancing." My answers have been consistently the same and revolve around the victor's intent for the post-War.
◈ Paris Peace Conference (1919)◈ Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo (April 1920)◈ Section VII, Treaty of Sevres and Article 132, Treaty of Sevres (Aug 1920)◈ Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention (Dec 1920)◈ Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement (October 1921)◈ Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne (1923)
These six references are the "KEY" means of evidence. I have presented them in this form many, many times. I can only assume that you are have intellectual problems in stringing the datum together.
The pro-Palestinian generally agree that the entirety of the territory west of the Jordan River is rightly Palestine. And because they (the pro-Palestinians) generally agree to this, it must be true under the Consensus Theory of Truth.(COMMENT)And whenever I ask you to show any evidence that this is not true you start dancing.
At the end of the day, Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne (1923), show the intent and the acknowledgment wherein the Defeated (Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic) renounces all rights and title to the territory and recognizes the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. In this case, the "parties concerned" are identified in the preamble. As you can see the Arab Palestinians or any other entity representing the Arab Palestinians are not included in the "parties to the treaty."
There is absolutely no need to dance around the issue. The "victors" of the war assumed the "rights and title."
All six KEY documents show that there was a consistent intent on the part of the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers to further the Mandate (which they authored. Nothing was promised to the Arab Palestinians and the Allied Powers had no specific obligation to the Arab Palestinians. Article 22 of the Covenant was a set of agreements between the members of the league; not between the Allied Powers and the Arab Palestinians.
As previously discussed, the obligation to provide "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations" was rejected several times by the Allied Powers. Thus negating any implication of a further obligation.
Again, all of this has been explained several times. There has been no dancing around the central issue.
Most Respectfully,
R
Your clunker for the day. The Allied Powers had a no annexation policy over the new states. You base your conclusions on false premise.There is absolutely no need to dance around the issue. The "victors" of the war assumed the "rights and title."
I saw no mention of annexation except yours. It seems you have a continuing problem of not comprehending what is provided to you.RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: And again, I don't think you can find such an example where I "start dancing." My answers have been consistently the same and revolve around the victor's intent for the post-War.
◈ Paris Peace Conference (1919)◈ Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo (April 1920)◈ Section VII, Treaty of Sevres and Article 132, Treaty of Sevres (Aug 1920)◈ Treaty #564 is the Franco-British Convention (Dec 1920)◈ Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement (October 1921)◈ Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne (1923)
These six references are the "KEY" means of evidence. I have presented them in this form many, many times. I can only assume that you are have intellectual problems in stringing the datum together.
The pro-Palestinian generally agree that the entirety of the territory west of the Jordan River is rightly Palestine. And because they (the pro-Palestinians) generally agree to this, it must be true under the Consensus Theory of Truth.(COMMENT)And whenever I ask you to show any evidence that this is not true you start dancing.
At the end of the day, Article 16, Treaty of Lausanne (1923), show the intent and the acknowledgment wherein the Defeated (Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic) renounces all rights and title to the territory and recognizes the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned. In this case, the "parties concerned" are identified in the preamble. As you can see the Arab Palestinians or any other entity representing the Arab Palestinians are not included in the "parties to the treaty."
There is absolutely no need to dance around the issue. The "victors" of the war assumed the "rights and title."
All six KEY documents show that there was a consistent intent on the part of the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers to further the Mandate (which they authored. Nothing was promised to the Arab Palestinians and the Allied Powers had no specific obligation to the Arab Palestinians. Article 22 of the Covenant was a set of agreements between the members of the league; not between the Allied Powers and the Arab Palestinians.
As previously discussed, the obligation to provide "tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations" was rejected several times by the Allied Powers. Thus negating any implication of a further obligation.
Again, all of this has been explained several times. There has been no dancing around the central issue.
Most Respectfully,
RYour clunker for the day. The Allied Powers had a no annexation policy over the new states. You base your conclusions on false premise.There is absolutely no need to dance around the issue. The "victors" of the war assumed the "rights and title."
But keep dancing.
