Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.

[P F Tinmore]

• Article 10, LoN Covenant was adopted in its current form as Article 2(4) UN Charter (1945):

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

The Nakba was (is) a violation of Palestinian rights and a violation of the UN Charter.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Who are refugees? And what about the occupation?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I noticed that in your discussion, you failed to mention that Israel did NOT, by any act of aggression, acquire more territory from any state. In fact, it was Arab League states, that expanded their control. One went so far as to Annexed the West Bank and Jerusalem

You took Resolution 242 beyond the scope of my post without addressing my post. You brought it into 1967 when my focus was 1948. I was using 242 as an example not as a basis for discussion.

(COMMENT)

There is no prohibition in the 1948 era INTERNATIONAL LAW that the Israeli acquisition of
territory violated. And it can be argued that Israel originally acquired sovereignty through "self-determination."

The Territory, under UN trusteeship, passed under the dominion to the Sovereign Nation of Israel by; → Transference through the abandonment (unilateral withdrawal by the Mandatory - UK), which was accepted without exception, for the assumption of sovereignty over.

---

NOTATIONS

UN Charter (1945) Article 2(3): “All Members shall settle their international disputes​

by peaceful means in such a manner that peace and security, and justice are not endangered.”​

​

UN Charter (1945) Article 2(4): “All Members shall refrain in their international​

relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political​

independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United​

Nations.”​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Who are refugees? And what about the occupation?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Nakba was (is) a violation of Palestinian rights and a violation of the UN Charter.

(COMMENT)

Give me a citation to the "Palestinian Rights" which you hold up. And what specifically are you alleging the Israelis did. Remember, under International Law, prior to May 1948, the Palestinians and Israelis (both) had the same citizenship. The conflict was a domestic issue with Palestinians in conflict with Palestinians.

So I ask you. What International Law are you referring to?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The conflict was a domestic issue with Palestinians in conflict with Palestinians.

Not really. The citizenship law allowing colonial settlers to obtain citizenship was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun against the wishes and best interest of the native population.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Who are refugees? And what about the occupation?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You make comments like this quite frequently...

Not really. The citizenship law allowing colonial settlers to obtain citizenship was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun against the wishes and best interest of the native population.

(COMMENT)

Now, this is totally twisted around. This is a propaganda sound bite that appears to be deliberately intended to deceive the discussion group.

The control of the former Ottoman Empire Territory came into the hands by means of the outcome from WWI. The vast swath of Levant was relinquished by the former sovereign power into the hands of the Allied Powers at the conclusion of the conflict.

Article 16 • (Part I Political Clauses) • (Section I Territorial Clauses) • Treaty of Lausanne ​

"Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries."​

The Citizenship Law was a necessity that was "granted" by the Mandate Power and pursuant to the Foreign Jurisdiction Act of 1890. The Citizenship Law was to recognize (by the Mandate Power as the competent of the Territory) under the Order in Council those people in residence as having both the "rights and obligations" which are attached to the possession of the nationality of that territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. The action was intended to prevent the condition of a "stateless person." The Citizenship Law was not applied at the point of a gun but applied without prejudice such treatment in accordance with the general principles of international law. It was with profound concern, as expressed by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers, in the San Remo Conference (1920) for the habitual residences to afford them "the widest exercise of the fundamental rights and freedoms" possible.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Who are refugees? And what about the occupation?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Nakba was (is) a violation of Palestinian rights and a violation of the UN Charter.

(COMMENT)

The Nakba, in a period prior to 1948, was not a violation of the UN Charter. After 1948 territorial control was under an UN-facilitated Armistice.

Relative to your "(is)"sic → today's Border Arrangements are governed by these agreements:

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •​

​

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​

​

◈ Golan Heights Law •​

​

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •​

​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

​

◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​

I think this covers every single aspect of the current "Border." As far as the Settleme3nts in Area "C" are concerned, the Palestinians agreed to the following:

Article IV of Annex III​

"Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, will be gradually transferred to Palestinian jurisdiction in accordance with this Agreement.​

The transfer of powers and responsibilities in Area C shall not affect Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred."​

I cannot help but wonder where you got the idea that something is in violation of the Charter. It looks simple to me...

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Who are refugees? And what about the occupation?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You make comments like this quite frequently...


(COMMENT)

Now, this is totally twisted around. This is a propaganda sound bite that appears to be deliberately intended to deceive the discussion group.

The control of the former Ottoman Empire Territory came into the hands by means of the outcome from WWI. The vast swath of Levant was relinquished by the former sovereign power into the hands of the Allied Powers at the conclusion of the conflict.

Article 16 • (Part I Political Clauses) • (Section I Territorial Clauses) • Treaty of Lausanne ​

"Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries."​

The Citizenship Law was a necessity that was "granted" by the Mandate Power and pursuant to the Foreign Jurisdiction Act of 1890. The Citizenship Law was to recognize (by the Mandate Power as the competent of the Territory) under the Order in Council those people in residence as having both the "rights and obligations" which are attached to the possession of the nationality of that territory to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. The action was intended to prevent the condition of a "stateless person." The Citizenship Law was not applied at the point of a gun but applied without prejudice such treatment in accordance with the general principles of international law. It was with profound concern, as expressed by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers, in the San Remo Conference (1920) for the habitual residences to afford them "the widest exercise of the fundamental rights and freedoms" possible.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Citizenship Law and its immigration policy was universally rejected by the Palestinians. It was implemented because Britain had the guns.

This was a violation of Palestinian rights and was inconsistent with the LoN Covenant.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Rights
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, you opened this can of worms. You know as well as I do that the Arab Palestinians were rejected (at least 3 times) a voice in the self-governing institutions between 1920 and 1924.

The Citizenship Law and its immigration policy was universally rejected by the Palestinians. It was implemented because Britain had the guns.

This was a violation of Palestinian rights and was inconsistent with the LoN Covenant.

(QUESTION)

So, tell me... What were the civil and political rights for the population from the former enemy territory prior to 1930?

Name them specifically and their source.

As far as the Covenant it discontinued functioning purpose on 20 April 1946 when the League of Nations (LoN) dissolved. What was the customary practice? Just how did the LoN and Allied Powers treat Germany (for instance)?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

I noticed that in your discussion, you failed to mention that Israel did NOT, by any act of aggression, acquire more territory from any state.

Let's put away some Israeli bullshit propaganda.

The League of Nations determined that Palestine was a state according to post was treaties.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As far as the Covenant it discontinued functioning purpose on 20 April 1946 when the League of Nations (LoN) dissolved.

OK, but the creation of Israel violated the UN Charter.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, you opened this can of worms. You know as well as I do that the Arab Palestinians were rejected (at least 3 times) a voice in the self-governing institutions between 1920 and 1924.

The poison pill was that they would have to take part in the settler colonial project.

 

[Hollie]

Let's put away some Israeli bullshit propaganda.

The League of Nations determined that Palestine was a state according to post was treaties.

Was that before or after the Treaty of Lausanne invented the "country of Pal'istan"?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Mental Capacity
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Let's put away some Israeli bullshit propaganda.
The League of Nations determined that Palestine was a state according to post was treaties.

(COMMENT)

Neither the League of Nations (LoN) Covenant (26 Articles and over 4000 words) nor the Treaty of Lausanne (143 Article and over 4800 words) mention Palestine once (NOT even once!).

The LoN Covenant was written in a language meant to cover over 690,000 km2 (270,000 sq mi), and from people South-West Africa, South Pacific Islands, Central Africa, the Middle East and North Africa, territories in the Habsburg and Russian Empires, the Levant to the Persian frontier, and all around the Mediterranean. The Covenant was generalized to accommodate a multitude of situations and give great latitude to the Allied Powers and Authorities. The Levant and the territory of Palestine was a small sliver of the scope to which the Covenant applied. Contrary to the propaganda cranked out by the Arab Higher Committee then and the various Hostile Arab Palestinians now, Article 22 was not all about them. In the last century, the Arab Palestinians have been grabbing after every little straw and twisting it to apply to them. They have become a tumor on humanity and a narcissistic culture so foul that they cannot realistically be set loose in modern society or the world a large - unsupervised. As Article 22 implied the Arab Palestinian fit the description “inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world“ causing chaos and havoc. They do NOT participate in the Permanent Status of Negotiations, Peace Talks, or refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force through diplomatic efforts, disputes by, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement. In short, they have been passing hatred and terror down from generation to generation to such a point that peaceful means to the scope and nature of the disputes are unachievable.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Mental Capacity
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

(COMMENT)

Neither the League of Nations (LoN) Covenant (26 Articles and over 4000 words) nor the Treaty of Lausanne (143 Article and over 4800 words) mention Palestine once (NOT even once!).

The LoN Covenant was written in a language meant to cover over 690,000 km2 (270,000 sq mi), and from people South-West Africa, South Pacific Islands, Central Africa, the Middle East and North Africa, territories in the Habsburg and Russian Empires, the Levant to the Persian frontier, and all around the Mediterranean. The Covenant was generalized to accommodate a multitude of situations and give great latitude to the Allied Powers and Authorities. The Levant and the territory of Palestine was a small sliver of the scope to which the Covenant applied. Contrary to the propaganda cranked out by the Arab Higher Committee then and the various Hostile Arab Palestinians now, Article 22 was not all about them. In the last century, the Arab Palestinians have been grabbing after every little straw and twisting it to apply to them. They have become a tumor on humanity and a narcissistic culture so foul that they cannot realistically be set loose in modern society or the world a large - unsupervised. As Article 22 implied the Arab Palestinian fit the description “inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world“ causing chaos and havoc. They do NOT participate in the Permanent Status of Negotiations, Peace Talks, or refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force through diplomatic efforts, disputes by, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement. In short, they have been passing hatred and terror down from generation to generation to such a point that peaceful means to the scope and nature of the disputes are unachievable.

Most Respectfully,
R

Another Palestinian hit piece.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Neither the League of Nations (LoN) Covenant (26 Articles and over 4000 words) nor the Treaty of Lausanne (143 Article and over 4800 words) mention Palestine once (NOT even once!).

Indeed, they did not say "except Palestine" even once.

Nice deflection, though.

 

[P F Tinmore]

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[P F Tinmore]

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[P F Tinmore]

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[P F Tinmore]

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